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jerica
USA
94 Posts |
 Posted - 02/26/2010 : 10:53:51
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So I've been having some breathlessness when I stand up or go from crouching or sitting on the floor to standing along with a bit of that lightheadedness you get when you stand up fast. Been having that for a week or so here and there so I googled it and of course ended up on a heart forum. Women there were talking about symptoms and saying how their tests all were normal then this ONE lady who is 39 was saying how she started having symptoms at 35 and all her tests including a thallium stress test were normal but she had to have a stent put in after all. So I got SO freaked out that within an hour of reading that post I started getting pain in my left arm, my left shoulder, my neck, my left jaw and more breathlessness. Been freaking out since then.
Before I read that post my only problem was the on and off breathless stuff (which could be anemia for all I know or just standing up too quick) and one quick ping of pain in my left arm early in the day.
An hour after I read her posts, I was pain all over the place and it's still coming and going. Shooting pains in my elbows, in my left bicep, in my neck on the left side, in my lower and upper jaw on the left.
I did though move my shoulder around and reproduce the neck pain and shoulder pain on that side, and I also pulled my shoulder up and down and each time I pulled it up I reproduced the shooting sharp pain in my neck for a while. I also have a constant habit of playing with my teeth on the right side of my mouth with my tongue so my jaw gets pulled out of whack. When I move my lower jaw around I can reproduce pain in my right and left sides, and when I touch the muscle in the middle of the jaw on the left it's a bit tender. Now I keep having spasms in my arms (even in my right arm) and a little in my right jaw and in my left collar bone area and a little in my chest along with the shortness of breath feeling and the congestion and cough and I'm thinking Oh crap I'm a goner! I need a heart cath!
I don't know anymore. EVery doc under the sun says don't get a heart cath and my cardiologist said I don't need one but it is the only way to get peace of mind.
So I'm back where I started, feeling lousy and all because I googled. My cholesterol has been high since I was pregnant in 2007 and I am taking meds for high blood pressure and I'm overweight so I think about that, too. I'm too scared to get a heart cath honestly and don't even think I could afford it, but that stupid woman online has me thinking OMG that's just like meeeeeeeee. She said she had symptoms for 4 years and docs said she was a hypochondriac etc and she was telling people to push for a heart cath.
What do I do NOW?? My Only consolation is that all these jaw/arm/shoulder/neck symptoms weren't there for the past 3 weeks or longer and started up within an hour of reading that post yesterday. Coincidence? |
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jerica
USA
94 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2010 : 10:58:47
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I have been having the arm/jaw/neck/shoulder pain on and off for over a year now and my doc keep saying he thinks it's from anxiety and tight muscles and nerves etc. That's my cardiologist. I show him where the pain is and describe it and he just doesn't seem concerned. Although he did tell me that if everything keeps up or gets worse then we can get "aggressive" which I guess means thallium test or heart cath. But I'm so scared of that idea.
No one can ever know if it is my heart or not so I sit here just feeling like a time bomb and thinking about it constantly. Why would my pain go away when I feel sufficiently reassured, though? Also that woman online didn't mention having any kind of anxiety disorder or anything and I've been having chest pain for like 15 years on and off but not really the shoulder/arm/collarbone/neck/jaw spasm type pain until only maybe a year or so ago? And I never used to have shortness of breath like that til maybe around Spring of 2007. And it will go away, what's that all about? |
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catspine
USA
239 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2010 : 14:32:01
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| There is no coincidence with TMS Jerika... |
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koukla
70 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2010 : 15:28:16
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| Jerica, I would believe your cardiologist over a random person online. Don't read those forums, period. They are freaking you out and making things worse for you. |
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susan828
USA
291 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2010 : 15:56:32
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Jerica, I posted about this last week and it is SO true. When you think about and focus on a body part, it will bring attention and pain to it. Who knows why but it does. I just read an article in Consumer Report health newsletter that says do NOT go for angioplasties and caths if you don't need them! There are expensive tests that show artery blockage also, non-invasive. Personally, I don't want them because if it shows something, I really don't want to know and start with stents. Maybe that's stupid but I just want to get away from all this obsessing. I have had 100 heart attacks...100 appendicitis attacks...all in my mind. I had pain, but they were all nothing.
Googling is our curse. I do believe we can get better, we can be like other people or at least get somewhat better. The breathlessness I had as a very hypochondriacal child. It was pure hyperventilation, focusing on breathing and therefore deliberately deregulating it from nature's rhythm and the process of not being aware of it, just letting our bodies do what they are supposed to do. Do dogs and cats or any other animal focus on this? No. They just breathe.
Jerica, you are smart. I have read your posts. Of course, you know it's not a coincidence. Try to get a hold of some health anxiety books. AS good one is Stop Worrying About Your Health. You an get them cheap, used, on Amazon. Another good one is It's Not All In Your Head written by the best in the field of health anxiety. That book is written for the layman but they also have one called Treating Health Anxiety for the clinician (no need to get that one, I have it and the first one is more helpful).
I agree with the other posters. Listen to your cardiologist. The woman who had the thallium test...there are always exceptions. Think about breaking free from this. Practice, make believe you are someone else. pretend. Feel how freeing this is and realize this can be you. You just have to un-program the way you think. the books will help. I am a little better and working on it. I am rooting for you. |
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jerica
USA
94 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2010 : 16:03:48
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I can't thank you all enough for your posts and support. Your words, even one word two words (and more than that is hitting the jackpot) are soothing to my soul. *hugs to all of you*
I should listen to my cardio guy. If he said I needed it then I'd get it. But I asked him if I needed it and he said no, but it's just to help my worry and fear.
I Do have all these symptoms and right now I am still coughing and all that with that whole "can't exhale fully" sensation and tickle/cough but I'm trying to calm down. I even was poking my chest today and reproduced some arm pain in doing it. Heh. It's like my body is all these nerves and I just poke here or there and ZOING! pain in another body part. I hate that wheeze asthma type congestion feeling but I did have a cold that lasted for almost 2 weeks which started with a cough -- the cough that would not go away. I think it's partly from that and the sinus drip that i'm feeling this.
What other non invasive tests are there...I mean I had everything but the thallium stress test (had a regular one though) and the cath. I heard of a CT angiogram and even one that doesn't use contrast (you can tell I research this too much, right? nocontrast.com anyone?) but my cardio doc never heard of that latter one.
I gotta do some breathing exercises.
Any words of comfort are so appreciated. Yesterday I was off my head with worry! I even dreamed that Harrison Ford died and I went to his funeral so you know what's on my mind. |
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koukla
70 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2010 : 16:40:59
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| I was just reminded that one time my mother had this "lump" in her throat and she couldn't swallow or breath properly. Then she went to her doctor and he couldn't find anything and the doctor thought it was stress. Sure enough, it was stress because as soon as the doctor told her about it, the lump went away. |
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jerica
USA
94 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2010 : 17:47:38
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| Sometimes it takes my stuff longer to go away. It can sometimes go away in an hour or a day or two and sometimes I have to convince myself more and it can take a few days or whatever. Today now I'm just scanning my body and thinking too much. Every twinge, or every breath I'm pondering it. Plus hubby made popcorn so the house smells of it and I'm breathing in all this pungent butter popcorn smell. |
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susan828
USA
291 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2010 : 20:50:34
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| jerica, there are scans that show blockages, nothing is injected. I don't know the name of them but they show the smallest things all over your body. Incredibly expensive and I didn't pursue this because I don't want to be tempted to find out anything. My father never was in a hospital in his life and my mother really not either. They had things and just brushed them off. I don't know how I turned out like this. You're lucky you have a husband, so lucky. I can't see anyone wanting to hook up with me when they find out how crazy I am with this crap. really. I know I have loads of redeeming qualities and my friends tell me any man would be lucky to find me, but this health stuff is probably a turnoff to most people. |
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catspine
USA
239 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2010 : 22:01:16
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Jerica,
You're going to be alright if you want it bad enough but I'd like to call your attention on this as your energy seems to be absorbed by a big "black holes" .
I too used to have these breathing episodes and the pounding heart and the weezing and all that and they were terrible and worrisome when it happened so I can relate exactly to how you feel but now you must try to stop this fear feeding frenzy for what good is this doing to you ?. You've been told that you're okay again and again or that nothing is wrong with your heart besides the symptoms so why don't you shift all your attention on how your emotions can do this to you?
You know that there is an issue with your emotions and you could make progress fast at finding something and a treatment for it if you'd apply all that you do to chase the ghosts of your heart condition to what seems to be the causes of the problem.
I know it is not easy because you're obsessed with the heart but as soon as you feel the pull of the temptation to go that way get your notes out about what to do in this case
If you could just replace the word heart by the word emotions when this time comes and work on that according to what you see posted all over this forum as a way to begin with something I guess you would make progress fast .
By focusing on the heart you're perpetuating the vicious circle while all your symptoms are screaming at you as loud as they can to break the pattern. If that doesn't do it then what will?
I think you're playing a dangerous game with yourself . Just try to imagine the day you see a doctor and he tells you there is something you already imagine you could have because he misdiagnoses you, what will you do then when your worst fears come true? wouldn't it be simpler to try to do something on what has a better chance to work while you still can trouble free?
Moreover you're wasting precious resources on many levels at once be it your resistance or your strength or your time and money and your happiness, I can tell you that these may not be there when you 'll need them the most if you don't change course because it will be consumed already and then what will you do? when you get to this point there is nowhere to turn around, it is much more difficult and the damage may be done already.
TMS may not be dangerous to your physical body because only the symptoms are real but the strain it imposes on your body and your psyche is. Over time you may find it more and more difficult to ride the bad episodes and the frequency often increases as with the migraines and your best chance would be tou take the matter in your own hands as soon as possible and start to act upon it.
There is also an other danger much more insidious and it is what dwelling on the symptoms may indirectly bring you at this time . Did you try to sum that up already? or realize how it steers you away from what needs to be done?
It is a bit like a boat that would have a small hole at the bottom ...not big deal as long as you keep pumping but why not fix the hole while you still can?
Of course please disregard these few lines if you're already made this decision .
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jerica
USA
94 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2010 : 07:48:48
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I have moments where I tell myself, "It's TMS because look how fast these symptoms manifested! Now they are terrorizing you again and you haven't even had them for WEEKS. And after the stress test everything went away for weeks, too. Then blam you read something and within an hour have pain and shortness of breath etc."
Then I think, "No one can have all these symptoms without a heart problem! The tests might have missed something. *freakout*"
unfortunately the second thought seems to really dominate. The symptoms seem to get worse when I think that way. Last night I started thinking about it less and I had less pain. Today I get up and think about it and BAM my shoulder hurts, my left arm hurts, I am achy all over.
I have so many tender/trigger points, too.
I am REALLY finding it hard to believe that my symptoms corresponded so well to that lady's post that I read. But I remind myself of it and it makes sense. It's just desperately scary! But I'm like HOW could you just suddenly get all this stuff within an hour of reading a post online??? You didn't have this stuff in the days or weeks before. I was going quite a while without chest pain, too. I went a couple of weeks with only the barest of pain and then when I had a follow up with my cardio doc the symptoms came back because I think I was thinking about and dreading seeing him. So 2 days before they came back.
I just don't know. There's always that thing in my head that says WHAT IF IT IS YOUR HEART?
I wish I knew about those scans, that would be cool. I would want to know as long as the test isn't a risky test. I don't like the heart cath idea because it comes with risks and it's hard to jump into that when you don't have any evidence of heart disease, just symptoms that come and go and seem to obey emotions.
I need a good ally, a doctor and a therapist who would work together on me. I am always relaying info from one to the other, and with physical docs they spend 5, 10 maybe 15 mins with you and then that's it. The therapists know you better sit with you for hours. They should be talking to each other about a good action plan and be in agreement. I feel everything is so willy-nilly.
Thanks again for your responses. I want to read more of what you have to say because I find it grounding and I am still fighting this new setback. Now I'm getting pain in my right collarbone, heh. I mean it just seems to travel. Left wrist, left collarbone, right arm, left arm, chest, and around and around. |
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susan828
USA
291 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2010 : 08:06:25
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How nice it would be if it was like on House, where the doctors confer with each other, a real multidisciplinary approach. Never happen. I have had therapists that just relied on me to tell me what my dr. said. They are so rushed. If you really want to know about the test, just research or google "imaging" or heart or artery imagine, you will find something. I personally don't want to do it.
My grandmother and every older person I know always talked about the aches and pains you'd get after 40. It's just normal, not always TMS. I don't know your age but things hurt sometimes with everyone, people who have no psychological problems. I have learned to accept most of them that are fleeting. I had fibromyalgia but my view of it has changed since I learned about TMS and it hasn't bugged me for years to that extent anyway. Catspine, if you are reading this, all I can say is your posts are amazing. Very helpful. Thanks for taking the time to help everyone. |
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jerica
USA
94 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2010 : 08:09:01
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hey I have a question for everyone -- what does it mean when you have like arm pain and then you find a tender spot on your chest in between your ribs and when you poke it it causes pain in your arm?
I have been finding these "trigger" spots on my chest and when I push on them (usually it is between the ribs in that tissue there) then I get pain somewhere else. I have been getting so much random zings -- under my jaw, near my ear, in my forearm, bicep, wrist, right bicep, right outside of the breast, collarbone on each side. And so many spots are just sore but only when I touch them or massage them. And when I move my shoulder around the whole thing hurts. And I grind my teeth so that messed with my jaws.
Also, I was wondering if the underlying emotion could just be fear??? I have been feeling overwhelming FEAR since I was about 14. Fear has been the basis of everything for me, my whole life after that point. Everything I do is based in fear (I have 2 jobs because I'm afraid of having only one and I've done 3 or 4 jobs sometimes at once). Could FEAR do this?
And then I was thinking that if heart symptoms are the same as intense anxiety/fear symptoms could I be having just raging anxiety causing all this? It's just worrisome because well I do read about folks who have had clean tests and they missed something so here I sit and ponder.
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2010 : 08:33:29
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quote:
Originally posted by jerica
hey I have a question for everyone -- what does it mean when you have like arm pain and then you find a tender spot on your chest in between your ribs and when you poke it it causes pain in your arm?
Did you have this checked out by a doctor? It certainly could be TMS, especially since you seem obsessed with finding new symptoms, but only a doctor can rule out something serious.
quote:
Also, I was wondering if the underlying emotion could just be fear???
Again, I think you are focused too much on trying to find the one that is triggering your TMS. You need to accept that this is impossible. TMS symptoms are caused by repressed emotions that by definition cannot be felt.
One way to look at it is that the fear is a symptom just like the pain. The question you need to ask yourself is why are you so afraid? For example, why are you so afraid of having only one job? Is it because you are afraid you won't do a good job and might get fired from one of them? If so, why are you afraid you won't do a good job? Is it because you're not good enough? If so, why do you think you're not good enough?
What I'm trying to say is, you need to follow the path of emotion down deeper to find out what is causing it. The fuel is low self-esteem, and that stems from many things. Try to find those things, instead of focusing so much on the conscious feelings. |
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jerica
USA
94 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2010 : 11:27:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave
quote:
Originally posted by jerica
hey I have a question for everyone -- what does it mean when you have like arm pain and then you find a tender spot on your chest in between your ribs and when you poke it it causes pain in your arm?
Did you have this checked out by a doctor? It certainly could be TMS, especially since you seem obsessed with finding new symptoms, but only a doctor can rule out something serious.
I haven't talked to a doc about that since I just did it yesterday but I did ask my cardio guy about my arm pain and when I get pain in my wrist or arm and in my chest at the same time sometimes. He says that it is my nerves and my muscles. I asked a doc at a clinic and they said it comes from tension, the nerves get sensitized and start shooting pain etc. Usually they say if you push on something and it hurts then it's not your heart because it is then a muscle or nerve. My whole shoulder is really sore so when I move it it just is all stiff and sore all around it and my chest is a bit sore when I poke it so I wondering if I get arm/shoulder/neck/jaw pain from my shoulder and chest wall tension.
I didn't notice my shoulder hurting that bad the other day, it just started like around the time I read that post. Then I noticed that my shoulder and muscles got really tight and stiff and sore and I got arm pain and the rest of it.
Maybe it's from tensing up so much?
I also noticed today I took a deep breath and got lightheaded for a few seconds. Later in the day I took another deep breath and got lightheaded again. My cardio guy says I have hyperventilation syndrome because when I go to him and take deep breaths I nearly pass out after like 3.
It freaks me out when you ask if I have asked a doctor because in my mind that plants the seed of "what if it's something serious?" But I have asked him about it, I've asked other docs, too. I mention everything to everyone. I can't afford to keep going back to docs.
I have an appt to see my cardio guy next week so I'll bring it up and all, but I think with him I'm at a standstill because he can only offer me the nuclear stress test or a heart cath, I don't think he knows what else to do with me especially since I won't take the proper levels of Zoloft they all want me to.
There's SO MUCH alarming stuff everywhere about how you can drop dead from heart stuff that I am beyond obsessed with it all. |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2010 : 13:23:56
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| Rule number One: Don't google your symptoms with a view to diagnosing yourself. You will unnecessarily freak yourself out over what you find. The art of diagnosis takes years of specialized training and even then - as we all know - doctors still frequently get it wrong. Arriving at a correct diagnosis can be quite complex even for those who possess years of training and experience. |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2010 : 13:35:06
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quote:
Originally posted by jerica
There's SO MUCH alarming stuff everywhere about how you can drop dead from heart stuff that I am beyond obsessed with it all.
You hit the nail on the head. You are obsessed with the symptoms. As long as this continues, TMS is winning the battle.
It is not uncommon that when you start to learn about and treat TMS, your brain manufactures more symptoms. It is clever and will choose the symptoms most likely to convince you that there is something seriously wrong.
If you have had your symptoms checked by a doctor, and they cannot find a cause, it is likely that everything you are experiencing is TMS. It seems you suffer from major anxiety symptoms. You need to recondition your reaction to them. You must learn to accept the symptoms and trust that they are benign. You must learn to stop fearing that there is something seriously wrong with you. You must learn to stop focusing (or in your case, obsessing) on the symptoms. This is exactly what your brain is trying to get you to do. As long as you let it succeed, it will continue this strategy. You need to break the cycle.
Force yourself to think about difficult feelings that you may not be fully appreciating. Force yourself to admit the "terrible" things you are feeling but don't want to face. The child inside you is in a blind rage because of all the pressure you put on yourself. The child is pissed off about certain aspects of your life that curtail your freedom and independence. This includes forcing yourself to work three jobs for some reason that you probably don't even understand yourself. Try your best to face those terrible, disgusting, forbidden feelings that you don't want to admit you are feeling inside. Focus on that, instead of the pain! |
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jerica
USA
94 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2010 : 14:24:05
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The pain seems to be abating a little to just pings and pangs here and there but now I have this breathing stuff. I feel like, breathless. When I take a deep breath I get lightheaded. So I'm thinking about that now, thinking OMG it's my heart I am suffocating etc.
The emotion is FEAR. I am worried and I feel PRESSURED, like I am doing too much. I just want all of it off my shoulders. I don't want to think about any problems, no one else's problems. I feel useless and incapable.
I have these 2 jobs but I mean I had all this stress before I had the new jobs. I had a job then that was always cutting hours and I didn't have enough money. So having money and jobs and not having money or jobs are both stressful. In fact I think EVERYTHING has become stressful. When my daughter starts screaming and having a tantrum, I feel like I'm choking. When I laid down last night I felt like I couldn't breathe. It's random, it's driving me nuts.
I know I have fears and I feel angry and resentful but I don't understand WHY it's attacking me like this. Doesn't everyone have feelings like this? Why are they normal and I'm not?? |
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catspine
USA
239 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2010 : 15:29:55
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quote:
I just don't know. There's always that thing in my head that says WHAT IF IT IS YOUR HEART?
Yes and what about : WHAT IF IT'S NOT????? |
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catspine
USA
239 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2010 : 16:50:18
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quote:
hey I have a question for everyone -- what does it mean when you have like arm pain and then you find a tender spot on your chest in between your ribs and when you poke it it causes pain in your arm?
First: It will go away. And it will come back and move and do kind of the same thing somewhere else like the other side for exemple. Sometimes these knots feel like a swollen gland here and there and churn the fear again so cool down and "deflate" all the muscles in your body. You can greatly reduce these symptoms by controlling the fear. Also Have an MD make sure it is not your lymph nodes being swollen because it feels like that too in some places like the neck or the groin.
Because of your emotional state after weeks of working yourself up your nerves are on full sensitivity alert mode they register every thing you read or hear or feel and communicate the signal to your muscles to cramp up much faster than usually. Small muscles usually unnoticeable knot throughout a muscle group like your pectoral and arm muscles (this is very helpful to figure out what does what in your body and where things like muscles and nerves and tendons are and go to or come from). And remember they knot because you don't give them a ghost of a break in your unconscious mind.
quote:
Also, I was wondering if the underlying emotion could just be fear??? I have been feeling overwhelming FEAR since I was about 14. Fear has been the basis of everything for me, my whole life after that point. Everything I do is based in fear (I have 2 jobs because I'm afraid of having only one and I've done 3 or 4 jobs sometimes at once). Could FEAR do this?
YES THIS IS WHAT FEAR DOES THAT'S ITS JOB AND IT DOES IT VERY WELL DOESN'T IT?
By the way I had all of the above in the exact way you describe it including the breathless feelings and the heart hick ups and all it felt like I was going to kick the bucket any minute then.
Jerica you sound like you're getting closer to finding out what is causing all that I mean you're slowly realizing ( it shows in your questions) that the cause of all this is likely to come from your unconscious mind. You're approaching a turning point and this is a good news.
Have you ever read from Helen Keller?
Also I almost forgot to mention it but I remember that you do exercise and this may help you when you feel louzy : lay down if you can until you calm down and then try to do something physical for 10 minutes and see how you feel. According to you All your doctors have reassured you that there is nothing wrong with your heart so this should be feasible. It doesn't have to be full aerobics of course. I often rake the driveway or something like that . I could not tell you why but in the same conditions you mentioned it made me feel better many times already. |
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winnieboo
USA
269 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2010 : 19:01:28
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Hi Jerica,
My heart goes out to you because most of your symptoms, minus the heart palps, have been on my list.
I have a couple of things to add what's already been offered: First, regarding the internet: Please don't go there. Most of it isn't accurate and while we Google for reassurance, we end up on the receiving end of a counter result, which is greatly heightened FEAR. I've spent countless hours googling and equal hours analyzing why I must like to scare the bejeezus out of myself. I have likened it to snowboarding, or parachuting or other aggressive sports: Why do I not feel alive unless my life is at risk? Although, what a joke! No jeapody in my life, really! I'm not leaping from a plane, I'm only imagining that the twinge in my left toe is about to kill me!
When you experience a symptom that is not TMS, I'm convinced: you know. I've had "real ones" along the way; I know. Physical issues don't move around, don't turn themselves off when you're asleep or when you're having fun. They don't fade after a beer or a glass of wine. If you're like me, there will be plenty of times when you experience a symptom and you won't be sure. Then you HAVE to check, but do your checking with a live M.D.
As Dave explains, when you have all your strange physical symptoms, those symptoms ARE anxiety and conflict talking to you from the deep. They are the angry child speaking out. Our work is to try to rectify that. On another thread, you sent us to a website that I watched and it's very Sarno-ish, all about the inner child and repression. So, that's the right road. Improvement begins when TMS is accepted and one does the work in a disciplined way, like sticking to a diet or exercise commitment. |
Edited by - winnieboo on 02/27/2010 21:05:54 |
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Yeah, I Googled and scared the tar outta myself
