| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| dtes87 |
Posted - 12/18/2009 : 11:32:28
Its because of my laptop that Ive been using for multiple hours a day by using the touchpad with my elbows in a horrible position. Now my fingers get numb and I have a radiating pain from my elbow through my forearm. I know how this RSI occured. But how does one know to treat something as TMS or just another injury? Ive had an old RSI with my hands due to laptop use, but I would never expect this to happen. Im bummed, but I wanna work out in the gym and am hoping if I just ignore the pain/numbness, it can dissipate. Thoughts? |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Dave |
Posted - 12/24/2009 : 08:43:22
Your posts here indicate a certain obsession about your symptoms, and a propensity to over-analyze. This is typical in TMS-prone people -- it is effectively serving the same purpose: to distract you from the pain.
It seems that you want to give this a shot, so by all means, read Healing Back Pain or The Mindbody Syndrome slowly and carefully, trying your best to absorb those concepts and follow the treatment suggestions.
While pushing through the pain is ultimately part of treatment, if you do this too soon it can backfire, reinforcing your focus on the physical symptoms and undermining your faith in the TMS diagnosis. So proceed with caution.
As far as using the laptop, use common sense. I do believe that RSI=TMS, and not a chronic physical condition that leads to permanent damage. Nevertheless, it is still important to care for your body. So by all means, take a break every couple of hours at least. Get outside and take a walk. Take care of yourself! |
| Gibbon |
Posted - 12/24/2009 : 05:02:34
I'm not sure why you're posting here for advice as you're not listening to any!
1. go to a doctor.
2. stop doing the physical activity that aggravates it until you're convinced that it's not due to structural damage.
3. Read Dr Sarno's book and the success stories linked.
Until you do those 3 things there's nothing more to say....
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| dtes87 |
Posted - 12/23/2009 : 16:50:10
after all, all RSI=TMS, right? |
| dtes87 |
Posted - 12/23/2009 : 16:47:28
allright, im just gonna do it. ignore the pain and numbness, and continue doing my repetitive laptop tasks. If TMS is true, then im not doing further damage anyway in spite of pain, so "shrugs."
I worked out today and did bicep curls. My elbows were killing me. but i didnt care. |
| Gibbon |
Posted - 12/23/2009 : 03:02:04
I'd also say, don't press through with the pain if you don't believe it's TMS. That might sound a bit counter-intuitive, but if you believe it's physical and continue to do physical activities that you think are causing it, it will get worse. Trust me on that. |
| Gibbon |
Posted - 12/23/2009 : 02:59:06
quote:
Originally posted by dtes87
I worked out daily for 3 years. Im 22 years old. In my 3 years, NEVER have my elbows popped and clicked until this new RSI. And as for my old RSI in my wrists, well, to this day, when I rotate them they crack and crunch, unlike a normal persons. God I wish TMS was true...but I just cant. But hey, if theres no structural problem whether I believe or not, then whatever, right? Might as well just push through the agony.
you know, the most miraculous thing about accepting TMS was that within 1 day of doing it my elbows stopped cracking. When I noticed that i really started to sit up and think there may be something to it. My elbows used to crack horribly, bone shuddering cracks whenever i was sat stationary for a while....and then *magic* gone.
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| scd1833 |
Posted - 12/22/2009 : 21:09:13
cracking and crunching of stiff joints is NORMAL!
a flat passive laptop keyboard can't possibly cause pain!
physical position, etc has NOTHING to do with it.
these are learned responses, inaccurate associations that our confused brain makes.
you're just continuing to focus on the physical!
it's simply a way of thinking, it's difficult to make the mental shift..it's like buying into a new religion or something like that, belief systems are culturaly programmed deep into our collective psyches, and constantly reinforced by the media, MD's, friends and neighbors etc.
It takes real courage, insight, and open-mindedness to "get" the TMS theory, or in my case is was pure exhaustion, and desparation. I guess I was "ready" for the information, because in 15+ years of suffering nothing worked or made any sense with my symptoms.
If this dosen't work for you,(you don't believe it will)maybe you need to back off for awhile, try another approach, or just live with the symptoms, and maybe come back to it after your mind has had time to process your experiences and gain some perspective. |
| dtes87 |
Posted - 12/22/2009 : 19:09:08
I worked out daily for 3 years. Im 22 years old. In my 3 years, NEVER have my elbows popped and clicked until this new RSI. And as for my old RSI in my wrists, well, to this day, when I rotate them they crack and crunch, unlike a normal persons. God I wish TMS was true...but I just cant. But hey, if theres no structural problem whether I believe or not, then whatever, right? Might as well just push through the agony. |
| Gibbon |
Posted - 12/22/2009 : 19:00:05
quote:
Originally posted by dtes87
But i bet you have an ergonomic setup. I use a laptop touchpad with no mouse and im rarely at a desk, but at my bed with my elbows bent, fingers curled, and repettively doing this for 12+ hours for the past 2 months.
Dave, do you agree that RSIs well...dont exist? If I cant accept TMS, fine, but should it affect damage being permanent whether I believe or not?
my ergonomic setup was non-existent! Pretty much everything they tell you to do (wrist straight, comfortable distance, head positioning etc etc...) was completely wrong. That's why i do think that some physical strain is possible - it's just that when this is perpetuated over many weeks/months that you are probably no longer dealing with a physical condition. I personally believe that if i hadn't read sarno's book and stumbled across this website i'd still have the same level of pain i'd had over the past 3 years. In fact it was steadily getting worse and worse. And now, i haven't used Dragon software for over 2 months - which considering how i had to use it for all computer use for over 1 1/2 years is pretty amazing.... |
| Gibbon |
Posted - 12/22/2009 : 18:54:26
quote:
Originally posted by dtes87
Dammit i probalby dont have TMS, cause im on my laptop literally all day for like the past two months, thats when the elbow pain and hand pain came. Ive been to a GP BEFORE concerning my hands when I was 18, and I know what she is going to say to me. "Rest"
Thats probably the key. But i really want it to be TMS so i can continue typing and not be fearful of permanent damage. Which I guess, is possible cause not everything is TMS. Ive never had a pain in my body in which I didnt have an initial injury or reason to suspect why it was there.
have you read my story? I had an onset of symptoms after probably hammering on a keyboard/using a mouse for upwards of 16 hrs a day for months on end.....I think it's likely that i may have had some sort of initial physical strain - and that this became conditioned and reinforced to become worse and worse - to the extent where it was a chronic pain condition long after the original physical trigger had gone..... |
| dtes87 |
Posted - 12/22/2009 : 18:53:42
But i bet you have an ergonomic setup. I use a laptop touchpad with no mouse and im rarely at a desk, but at my bed with my elbows bent, fingers curled, and repettively doing this for 12+ hours for the past 2 months.
Dave, do you agree that RSIs well...dont exist? If I cant accept TMS, fine, but should it affect damage being permanent whether I believe or not? |
| Dave |
Posted - 12/22/2009 : 14:26:43
quote:
Originally posted by dtes87
Dammit i probalby dont have TMS, cause im on my laptop literally all day for like the past two months, thats when the elbow pain and hand pain came.
I suggest you read the section of Dr. Sarno's book that talks about conditioning. It is perhaps the most important concept in TMS.
In short, if you believe that extended laptop use can cause "injury" then your unconscious mind will oblige by presenting you with exactly the symptoms you expect. The pain is a conditioned response -- a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Of course it is possible to develop aches and pains from using the computer for long stretches without rest. But it is one thing to accept these pains as temporary discomfort, and another to let them graduate into a an "injury" and to fear permanent damage.
Your messages clearly indicate that you do not yet understand or accept the TMS diagnosis. I suggest you continue to read Dr. Sarno's book until it sinks in.
By the way, I have been on my computer for 10-12 hours per day every day for pretty much 25 years. No "RSI" here. |
| dtes87 |
Posted - 12/22/2009 : 11:22:53
Dammit i probalby dont have TMS, cause im on my laptop literally all day for like the past two months, thats when the elbow pain and hand pain came. Ive been to a GP BEFORE concerning my hands when I was 18, and I know what she is going to say to me. "Rest"
Thats probably the key. But i really want it to be TMS so i can continue typing and not be fearful of permanent damage. Which I guess, is possible cause not everything is TMS. Ive never had a pain in my body in which I didnt have an initial injury or reason to suspect why it was there. |
| Gibbon |
Posted - 12/22/2009 : 05:29:02
quote:
Originally posted by scd1833
I agree with dave, if you go to a physician they will do their best to find a physical explanation for your pain.
Don't do it
go to the success stories page and look at danord's story of recovery from rsi, due to typing at the computer
RSI is TMS
hiya, i hear what you're saying - and from what he has said i think the best thing to do is look at the success stories etc. And indeed, i think that going to a GP will do nothing but prolong the process.....
but.....
I still think it is irresponsible to recommend people do anything other than first see a doctor with their symptoms. They could be caused by something else which needs catching early. In Sarno's books he's always pretty clear that you need to get checked out before starting with his program....
i wonder what other TMS-ers think?
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| scd1833 |
Posted - 12/21/2009 : 23:15:45
I agree with dave, if you go to a physician they will do their best to find a physical explanation for your pain.
Don't do it
go to the success stories page and look at danord's story of recovery from rsi, due to typing at the computer
RSI is TMS |
| Dave |
Posted - 12/19/2009 : 14:49:44
quote:
Originally posted by dtes87
THIS is where the contradiction is that I see. So do you listen to doctors or DONT you? Do you stop when you feel pain or DONT you? Why is it that I had no problem with my elbows until i started excessively using a pad on my laptop without a mouse? I do have health phobias, but only because I feel pain from what was already through repetitive strain or injury.
If you read Dr. Sarno, you will understand why the vast majority of doctors will not entertain the TMS diagnosis.
Of course, if you go to a doctor with RSI symptoms, they will do what they are trained to do: diagnose you with tendonitis, send you for physical therapy, recommend changing how you use the computer, prescribe anti-inflammatory drugs, etc.
It is certainly plausible that by changing the way you use your laptop, you strained some muscles or tendons, especially if you are at the computer for many hours straight with no breaks. Of course, it is logical that if you type for 8 hours straight your fingers might hurt!
However, the difference is what comes next. Do you give this pain the power to distract you further? Do you attach a label to it such as RSI? Do you allow yourself to consider it a chronic condition? Do you wear wristbands and use special keyboards? Do you go for physical therapy?
If you strain your muscles, tendons, or nerves through overuse (such as typing for 8 hours straight which is certainly not a good idea) then you must understand that this temporary discomfort will heal completely on its own with proper rest. What you should not do is slap the "RSI sufferer" label on yourself and treat is as some kind of chronic problem.
My advice would be to read Dr. Sarno's book and really try to understand it. Stop focusing on the physical and start thinking psychological. Learn how certain personality traits (e.g. goodism and perfectionism) lead to repressed feelings. The more you harp on the physical nature of "RSI" the further away you are from recovery from TMS. |
| Gibbon |
Posted - 12/19/2009 : 14:02:56
quote:
Originally posted by dtes87
THIS is where the contradiction is that I see. So do you listen to doctors or DONT you? Do you stop when you feel pain or DONT you? Why is it that I had no problem with my elbows until i started excessively using a pad on my laptop without a mouse? I do have health phobias, but only because I feel pain from what was already through repetitive strain or injury.
can i ask that you read the linked material? What you are asking has been covered in a lot of depth before....
briefly:
seek medical advice. It may be something serious. If they conclude that it's RSI and start telling you that you need surgery or psysio or steroid injections or accupuncture then you need to make up your mind about what to do. These treatments won't do long term harm as such, so indeed if you want to go through the full gamult of medical interventions then that's up to you. The truth is that probably none of them will work - the success rates and indeed the medical evidence for their effectiveness is pretty ropey at best. When you're ready to accept that RSI might not have a structural cause, then you are ready to accept TMS and the recommendations for recovery.
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| dtes87 |
Posted - 12/19/2009 : 13:47:31
THIS is where the contradiction is that I see. So do you listen to doctors or DONT you? Do you stop when you feel pain or DONT you? Why is it that I had no problem with my elbows until i started excessively using a pad on my laptop without a mouse? I do have health phobias, but only because I feel pain from what was already through repetitive strain or injury. |
| Gibbon |
Posted - 12/19/2009 : 13:41:53
quote:
Originally posted by dtes87
See, but doesnt Sarno give examples of people who have structural problems with no pain? I sort of see a contradiction. Structural problems shouldnt lead to pain, yet one should "see a doctor to rule out structural problems." I thought Sarno didnt believe RSIs really even existed? I had a neck injury that has vastly improved, I dunno if time was all it needed, but I do know that using my laptop and researchig health websites gave me this RSI ironically.
Of course some structural problems do exist - and some can of course cause pain. The question is however whether RSI is a fundamentally structural problem or a fundamentally psychosomatic problem. There could always be (though hopefully not!) a serious reason for your symptoms. This needs to be ruled out, and medical advice at least listened to. Also, I'm just a chap on a web forum, reading a very brief account of your condition, it would be pretty irresponsible to do anything other than recommend that you first seek professional medical help.
I would strongly recommend reading the linked resources to RSI on the TMS wiki - they will answer some of the questions you're asking now....it's not a case of saying that RSI "doesn't exist" - but simply that it does not have a structural cause. That is a very very important distinction. I suffered RSI for 3 years and to a pretty serious degree for 1 1/2 years - no one can possibily tell me the condition isn't "real." The mind and the body are inextricably linked.... |
| dtes87 |
Posted - 12/19/2009 : 13:37:20
One more question, Dave, then i'll let you be....if your boss at work told you to type something for 8 straight hours for a whole month and you felt pain in your wrists, would this be a true RSI or TMS? |
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