| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| crk |
Posted - 05/12/2009 : 08:41:12
Although my first experience with TMS was a back problem, and although back pain is Sarno's main focus, I think there are TONS of "running injuries" out there that are TMS.
I believe every major running magazine, with the exception of Marathon & Beyond, now has a regular Injuries column. I can't even look at them. I am very susceptible to TMS triggers, thanks to my totally crappy childhood. If I see an article about Runner's Knee, my knee will hurt the very next run and I have to shoot it down before it turns into an episode. I've gotten pretty good at it, but it's truly annoying.
I also frequent many runner's forums and blogs, and the Culture Of Injury is huge. I try to mention TMS to people from time to time, but the hype is so believable to them. Moreover, I believe the "Child Primitive" in us HATES anything strenuous so runners are natural TMS targets.
I am curious about other runners on this forum. Is anyone out there a runner and how has your TMS interfered with running? What kinds of strategies do you use to combat TMS while running? I am interested in using this thread as a sort of support group for TMS runners if anyone is interested.
My main strategies are:
-nip it in the bud if you can. The sooner you see it as TMS, the quicker it goes away. Most of mine can be gone during the same run in which they appear, but when I have an important race coming up it's a little harder. (Insecurity, inferiority complex.)
-Continue all runs as planned.
-Review Sarno's recovery reminders as well as what I call my List of Hurts before going out for my run.
-Think about the "good" foot or knee or whatever, and calmly remind myself that the other one is exactly the same.
-Remind myself that I am perfectly healthy and strong, and the pain will go - it always does!!
-Look other pedestrians in the eye and picture them as my family of origin; focus on my feelings of emotional hurt as I pass them.
-Do not let the pain distract me from psychological issues. |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| vicky |
Posted - 11/09/2009 : 16:42:44
I so want to be able to run!! I never have - I've done other forms of excercise, and I do love walking now - but, I'm 53, a bit overweight. I let myself believe I had a 'bad back' for a few years, and also had a lot of other symptoms that I've got through with the help of the books and this board. Still have physical symptoms that can put me into panic, so of course I have to be TMS aware. But I envy you runners so much, to have a fit body and be able to run freely must be such an amazing feeling, and also such a great way to release stress.
Trouble is, I believe I haven't got the body of a runner (if there is such a thing?) for instance, my legs are quite short, and my body feels heavy (and felt like that even when I've been the correct weight). Also, a fear that's playing in my mind is hearing a couple of people saying they have got chronic bronchitis from running (which sounds like another TMS symptom).
Any thoughts would be really useful - do you think some people are natural runners, or is it possible to become a runner?
(And I too LOVE the Born to Run book!)
Vicky |
| Texasrunner |
Posted - 11/09/2009 : 09:14:54
At 55, I agree that decline is very slow, and need not be anything to worry about. On the TMS front, I beleive that us runners certainly have plenty of TMS "injuries." They [injuries] love to re-visit old injury sites, and seem to attack when you are in absolute peak shape. For me, the danger is that after running pretty much pain free for the past five years, I forgot about unconscious rage and TMS, and now here it is again, this time in my left upper hamstring/butt. So, I am "re-programming" myself, and forgetting about all of the media nonsense that reinforces the idea that we are endlessly susceptible to injury. Here's an e-mail Dr. Marc Sopher, one of Sarno's greatest supporters, sent me today:
"We are not fragile. WE ARE NOT FRAGILE!!! Everyone has been condtioned to believe that running is traumatic and should result in pain and injury. Utterly ludicrous." |
| crk |
Posted - 09/14/2009 : 09:30:03
Read Born To Run if you think you are too old to run well. To be sure, statistics show that people can run faster in their 20s than they do in their 50s. But there is so much more potential for running in "old age" than our culture allows. I am far more fit at nearly 51 than I was when I started running at 44. |
| wrldtrv |
Posted - 09/12/2009 : 12:52:18
I have been running on/off for 31 yrs. What Art said many messages back about the inevitibility of decline is true, of course, but it is different for everybody and the pace of decline can be slowed by keeping fit. At 55, I can't really say I notice much decline. In fact, I have been running more, doing more tough races than in many years. And since I have a more well-rounded workout now, with weights, running hills, doing 14-ers, I'm probably in better shape overall than 20 yrs ago. For me, running and keeping fit is probably the single best thing I do for myself. |
| ssb |
Posted - 09/06/2009 : 07:15:41
Yay! Sorry for reviving an old thread; I just wanted to say I'm new around here and am SO happy to have found some good dialogue from runners with TMS. I identified with so many things I just read. Thanks, everybody! |
| hsb |
Posted - 05/26/2009 : 08:04:24
I think you're right GARth. The present moment...... all my thoughts right now are on the future ..... this hip/itb/piriformis stuff is making me think about the marathon training i am to start in one month. how can i start the training if i hurt so much now? how can i take off 2 or 3 weeks to see if the pain will go away and then have to start from scratch with the training? does all this sound familiar. i soooooo much do not want to take time off with the pains. I have been trying to run and ignor the pain, but the mind goes to those above thoughts. it ain't that comfortable running w/the hip pain. i try to tell myself that i've won this battle before and i can do it again. it ain't working so well this time. my inner conflict is whether to take the time off or not. maybe the hip will feel better if i do, then i start making deals with myself-if i take 2 weeks off of running and there is no discernable improvement, then i go back to running full bore and know it's tms. can any of you guys relate to this .... any advice?
thanks |
| Garth |
Posted - 05/26/2009 : 07:45:17
I was all set to give an answer of a bunch of fears I have as to why I won't slow down at times. Then simplicity struck me..... fear of the present moment. It doesn't matter what that moment may be. It's a fear of being with m-e me.
How much energy is wasted thinking of what was(the past).... and what will be(the future)? It's ingrained in our human belief system. The present moment is not prized. It's often not, what am I doing.... but what am I doing that for? .... implying that the only purpose of my current action is something in the future!
Take running or cycling or whatever we intend to do at some point.... maybe even right now, for instance. We set a goal, in our minds.... of how far we may go.... how fast... etc. We have in our minds already an expectation, one we may or may not meet. I often fear being stranded from running out of energy or my bike breaking down.... and no way to get home.
I don't know the future.... I don't know what will happen. I can't predict my next breath, let alone how far I can ride, or how I'll get home. I do take the present moment for granted. I find myself trying to live my life for the next moment.... instead of this one right here. I feel anxious about it. When things don't go "as planned"... I feel angry, as my mind's view of what should would or could have happened.... did not!
So.... what do I do with all that? I breathe. Breathing is the most overlooked, yet most profound act I can ever, ever.... EVER do! It's my center point... where life really is. I let the crap go..... and that's easier said than done. But, one moment at a time of letting go, is the start. Just as a building starts with one brick. I imagine myself at Niagara Falls, on the Canadian side..... watching the flow of water from the cliff. To the right is the future.... it's what's coming......or what I "think" is coming because I can't really see what's in the flow of water. To the left.... is the past..... water that's gone over the falls and downstream. I'm right here.... somewhere in the middle... the present... watching it all take place. Can I jump in the future and see what's coming in the flow? No, not really, as it's not even close so how can I jump into it? Can I jump into the past flow? ..... No, not really here too as it's so far away it's impossible to reach. That leaves me to right where I am. Observing the whole flow. I don't have to try and jump in, in fact to do so is detrimental to my health as I would exhaust myself trying! I hold my ground. In the present. Sometimes I may get wet... but I'm still ok. I may get cold.... but I'm still ok there too. My mind may want to run and hide, but there is no where to hide from itself..... so I hold my ground again.
This is an analogy for which maybe someone can relate to. I don't have a label for it..... maybe a living meditation I guess.
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| cfhunter |
Posted - 05/26/2009 : 06:33:06
I was kind of "picking on myself" in that last post...saying "Why can't I slow down without my brain trying to make me think there was something wrong? In other words...what am I afraid of?" |
| crk |
Posted - 05/24/2009 : 19:36:46
quote:
Do ALL "runners, bikers," have a tendency to overtrain and overdo?
o we REALLY need the lesson of injuries and fake injuries to slow us down?
I don't believe so. In fact, I would say that our species is capable of FAR more physical exertion than most of us even come close to.
The pain isn't there to slow us down. It is there because we are psychologically damaged. |
| cfhunter |
Posted - 05/24/2009 : 16:32:05
 p.s. Chi running was difficult for me to master a year ago...I think a different frame of mind was in order. Perhaps I have it now since taking up biking for balance...
Do ALL "runners, bikers," have a tendency to overtrain and overdo?
o we REALLY need the lesson of injuries and fake injuries to slow us down?
 |
| cfhunter |
Posted - 05/24/2009 : 13:54:22
sounds like my husband...signs up for a race, pain in ITB hips and back.
Event day? Not a pain in the world.
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| crk |
Posted - 05/23/2009 : 17:00:49
To Garth - great thoughts about living in the present. Run (or bike) your course, don't let it run you! |
| crk |
Posted - 05/23/2009 : 16:59:29
To Al - I LOVE Chi Running. Fantastic stuff! (But I still get fake -ie tms - pains.) Chi Running helped make my stride feel more natural and "swift." Lots of people say "you shouldn't try to change your stride." Let them speak for themselves! I changed my stride and I do very well with it. |
| Garth |
Posted - 05/23/2009 : 16:44:13
I've been a cyclist since a teen, I'm 44 now. I didn't ride for 4 + years from giving in to the pain before I decided enough was enough. I have times with pain, but ride through it. The mind games can be intense.
I'm not as fast as I was. I don't have the endurance I had. Yet....... I don't need to ride as fast now... or as far. I do what I can for now. I can take a day or two or three off now, and know I'm okay. I could never do that before.... I HAD to ride. There was no letting up to heal. I was always over-training.
I now take the time to see the view of where I'm going. I can stop anywhere..... for the view.... or for no particular reason. I could never do that before. So..... what I may "think" I've lost ..... I've actually gained because I enjoy riding a bike more than I ever did, because I truly appreciate being able to do so. Even a 20 or 30 minute ride.... inconceivable years ago..... is so much better than no ride at all.
"Time"..... robs us of the here and now. Life is lived in the present. |
| altherunner |
Posted - 05/23/2009 : 11:24:44
I was having foot pain a couple of years ago that was most likely tms, but I started "chi running", a different style of running, that is much easier on the feet and lower legs. I was also riding my bike on my off running days, and I fell off it one day and the pedal stuck in the top of my foot. My foot became swollen and purple, and I iced it, but I was still able to run a couple of days later. A month later, I was at the doctor, and mentioned about my foot, which still looked kind of lumpy, and he determined I had broken 1 or 2 bones in it. He did not reccomend treatment or re-breaking and setting them. I have been sold on Danny Dreyer's chi running ever since. |
| crk |
Posted - 05/23/2009 : 11:10:48
I am 50, and didn't start running until age 44, so I have no speedy days to look back on. lol I love to collect stories about runners in their 80s and 90s even. I want to do this my whole life! |
| art |
Posted - 05/23/2009 : 09:50:51
I'm in the same position, time off-wise. At 58, it's a struggle to just not lose ground. Extended time away from running definitely takes a toll. I spent a couple of years kick-biking instead of running recently, and I couldn't believe how much speed I'd lost. But since my racing days are over, I've only myself to compete against, which makes things much easier.
It's tempting to mourn all that lost speed, just as it's tempting to mourn lost youth, but it's a suckers game in the end.
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| hsb |
Posted - 05/22/2009 : 19:40:45
CRK-
nice post. thanks.
my personal running history is sort of similar to yours. i have been running for many years and have sustained many many many running "injuries" during that time. i do believe that it has always been tms. but i constantly took time off and tried the therapies, treatments, etc. what i have found is that each time i come back to running i am slower and slower and it takes longer and longer to get back. i have never gotten back to where i was. each layoff has taken its toll. i am just about now at a point where it doesn't matter how fast i am; as long as i can run w/o taking time off. this year was great for that. so far it's been over 7 months w/o taking time for for an "injury". so i am getting better in believing that my pains will resolve themselves.
i really don't care about my times any longer. i just can't bear taking time off and starting all over again. i am trying not to give in to it; as you said, crk - it's gaining a foothold.
congratulations on your great race.
p.s. when i ran mcm in 1999 it was one of those races - the sun, moon, stars must have been aligned, the miles passed w/o me thinking. i came in 2nd in my age group. what a moment! i know what your feeling.
i am going to run tomorrow and go with it
i had not raced in 10 years because of the disappointment of never getting to the starting line (injuries and layoffs). this year when i did my first marathon in 10 years, i made a pact w/myself - no speedwork, no intervals, just running. and i made it to the start and i finished. now that i have accomplished that ..... i decided to commit to a fall marathon.
training won't start until july . so guess what .... my back, my hip, my itb are killing me.
my brain is telling me , how can i start a training program "hurt". the tms thinking is sneaking in --- i have to take time off to heal, why did i sign up for a race, i cannot take time off, it will take so much to get back again.... the battle within...
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| art |
Posted - 05/22/2009 : 17:55:23
"The lesson has finally sunk in. I must run for myself and the pleasure of running. I believe I WILL achieve a BQ, probably in the next year or two. But I cannot put it before the number one goal: enjoying my sport. It will have to come when it comes. Running friends always ask what my goals are for an upcoming race. I have to start responding with, "just have fun and see what happens." Thank goodness I have the memory of CIM to cherish and emulate. "
Beautifully said. External, performance based thinking is in my opinion unhealthy for the TMS'er. For me, at age 58, every single mile is an occasion for celebration and gratitude.
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| crk |
Posted - 05/22/2009 : 17:46:26
quote:
Originally posted by hsb
... Don't you both believe that if you are training for something in the future (i.e., a marathon in 3 months) that there is always going to be that great fear of taking time off from training for the pains and ruin your training plan. i think that is what i do -- is that considered being in the future rather than the present? ...
HSB, you have brought up an extremely interesting point! For me, the 3 month thing is not a big deal. But just about when my training is peaking before a marathon-- 2-3 weeks from race day-- is when I am most susceptible to tms. Why? That is when I start thinking about my performance as a measure of my worth. All those runs, all that training. And what if I don't do well?
I learned a lot about this in the past year. First was the Portland (OR) marathon last October. I posted on my running blog all about how I was going to try to qualify for Boston. (Note, public judgment) I planned my race strategy with a steely heart. I went out with the pacers. I had a TERRIBLE race. My stomach cramped, my legs hurt, and I missed that time goal that I was so sure of by 25 minutes. From mile 7 I was asking everyone around me for some Motrin. That was Lesson 1.
Lesson 2. I wanted to "erase" the nightmare, so I signed up for CIM in December. I told everyone that I had only 2 goals. No BQ. Just 1) have a fun time and 2) get a negative split. (First half of the marathon slower than the second half.) No time goal! And guess what? I had the most amazing marathon of my life (it was my 16th). I enjoyed it so much! I not only got both of my goals but I came within 1 minute of my PR, a PR that had been made out of 26.2 miles of suffering and pain.
Did I learn? No. Lesson 3: Relearn Lesson 1. My May marathon this year was another "I am going to BQ now" marathon. Everything was in my favor. Training great. Tune up races: all PR'd. Flat course. I start saying "This is it. My BQ." Two weeks before the marathon I start getting a little tms thing in my foot. I am sure it is tms because it's moving around a bit and flaring up whenever I see other runners. (Who me? Want approval of others? lol) But I do my Sarno thing and it is pretty much under control but not gone. Marathon day, no pain in foot. I go out pretty close to pace, thinking strategy, strategy. At mile 11 I start getting a leg cramp. Another death march. This time I'm 35 minutes over a BQ time and in horrible pain. On the way back to my hotel, I wept to my husband. "I knew. I have done this to myself before." I could have avoided this wasteful and disappointing experience. But I traded my love of running for a boastful, external motivation.
The lesson has finally sunk in. I must run for myself and the pleasure of running. I believe I WILL achieve a BQ, probably in the next year or two. But I cannot put it before the number one goal: enjoying my sport. It will have to come when it comes. Running friends always ask what my goals are for an upcoming race. I have to start responding with, "just have fun and see what happens." Thank goodness I have the memory of CIM to cherish and emulate.
Gosh, I hope I'm not turning this into CRK's personal therapy thread. But what happened to me has been such an eye opener. I am sure there are non-tms victims out there who can succeed with a pure focus on pace and time goals. I am not one of them and I have learned it the hard way. Twice. I've got too much crap from childhood regarding performance and self-criticism. |
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