| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| brightondebs |
Posted - 01/21/2008 : 16:43:02
Hi all,
a few weeks ago I found this forum and felt it was helping me immensely. Sadly since then I've gone downhill. I'm doing the classic "it's been three months since I started following this program, why aren't I better?".
I was first diagnosed with RSI and/or Fibromyalgia about two years ago after working in web design for 12 years (I'm 34). I pursued treatment via the NHS in the UK with little luck. I sought out recommended physiotherapists and started stretches, made my workstation ergonomic etc. Still the pain continued. I then turned to extensive alternative treatments: osteopath, massage therapy, acupuncture, alexander technique, reflexology, Bowen, Reverse Therapy, Hypnotherapy, etc. I had some improvement but continued to go downhill. Eventually I went part time, then a year ago I quit, in pain and depressed. After quitting I spent five months at RECOUP - a specialist RSI clinic in India. Despite 4-6 physiotherapy/cognitive behavioral therapy/yoga/mediation treatments a day, seven days a week, I left the clinic still in pain and went to NZ to live with my parents.
About this time I decided to give the Dr Sarno approach some serious thought. The problem is, that decision was October last year and I'm still struggling. I've read continuously since then all Sarno's books except the first, read many success stories, Nate, Rachel etc., journaled every day, meditated when I can and I've started using my hands again as much as possible. I HAVE had improvements, I'm typing this after all, but I'm still far from being able to work again.
I have doubts, all the time. I fear I just don't "get" it. Today is particularly bad. I had a therapy session yesterday which brought up a serious issue from my past and today I woke up incredibly depressed.
Please help, any advice, virtual hugs, encouragement welcome!
Debs
p.s strangely, just writing that seems to have helped lift the gloom a little. |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| brightondebs |
Posted - 04/07/2008 : 14:55:59
Thanks guys. I was to start today but they delayed my start until the 15th which is just fine by me! I've returned to Fred Amir's book and I'm really determined to beat this. So far, the pain hasn't lessened but last night I slept like a baby! It was wonderful. I think I'm terrified about going back to work but I also think it's the right thing to do. Feel the fear and do it anyway kind of thing :) |
| Littlebird |
Posted - 04/04/2008 : 15:13:34
Could it be that the fear of the unknown in starting this new job is part of the trigger?
I just read a quote I liked from the late Gilda Radner that says, "I wanted a perfect ending. Now I've leanred the hard way that some poems don't rhyme and some stories don't have a clear beginning, middle and end. Life is about not knowing, having to change, taking the moment and making the best of it, without knowing what is going to happen next. Delicious ambiguity."
I don't like ambiguity, I want to know what's going to happen next so I can be prepared, but trying to predict and prepare and control has caused me a lot of anxiety and other TMS stuff. When I was working, starting a new job was always stressful because it triggered that fear of the unknown.
Maybe once you get through the first week or so of the new job your subconscious will decide this job isn't going to be miserable, isn't going to be like past jobs that you haven't enjoyed, and then it can relax again. |
| campbell28 |
Posted - 04/04/2008 : 05:57:31
hi debs sorry to hear its all jumped on you again. i know i've written a lot of stuff about listening to my body and brain etc but i wonder if maybe its a job you really want it could be one of those times where you just say screw the pain and the anxiety and do it anyway?
Even though I was glad I didn't get the PR job I applied for last year, and even though doing the application made me feel awful, it was kind of like pushing through a barrier. I felt horrific at the time, but less bad afterwards. I still think the job wasn't right for me, but in a way it did help because the symptoms / anxiety backed down a bit afterwards.
i know we've had similar experiences but it does also seem that TMS is so individual so in the end i guess you will know what the right thing to do for you is; and what I did is not necessarily what would help you.
hope that all makes sense i have a bad cold and feel really spaced out! good luck with the job - it sounds cool, I hope whatever happens you feel OK with things. |
| brightondebs |
Posted - 04/02/2008 : 03:01:43
Argh. Two weeks ago, after a year of being an unemployed web designer, I finally managed to get a job. It is the dream job: working for a charity, part-time as a project fundraiser and is nothing to do with web design which is all I've ever done. The problem is that ever since they offered me the job (I'm supposed to start April 7) my symptoms have escalated tremendously. Two weeks ago I was leading a relatively normal life with restrictions I had learned to live with. I even forgot about the pain sometimes and was sleeping well. Now I'm in pain all the time. I can't sleep, I have pins and needles, numbness, weakness. Walking hurts, sitting hurts, everything hurts! Also, my anxiety levels are sky high. What can I do? So, my brain/body doesn't want to work, I get it. But I really want this job, I've spent six years wanting a break like this. Help! |
| armchairlinguist |
Posted - 03/09/2008 : 23:28:41
quote:
How do we break out of these perfectionistic, goodist habits? I know my desire to help, to always say yes, to be the perfect volunteer, comes from a deep desire to be liked.
What campbell said, pretty much. Awareness is the first step, that you realize that you don't really want to be doing what you're doing. And you start thinking about how it really looks from the outside. Then gradually you start feeling that inside, and counseling/therapy can be really helpful. Eventually you get better boundaries so that you can take care of yourself better.
Really feeling that feeling that you don't want to be doing this can help. That feeling is coming from deep inside, your inner child. It's a real, and a big, feeling. If you keep paying attention it will get bigger than the part that wants to run around doing stuff.
Also, running around is like distraction, only it's not pain, it's being too busy to think. So try to resist it consciously too, because you need time to sit and think.
--
It's not 100% belief that's required, but 100% commitment. |
| campbell28 |
Posted - 03/09/2008 : 08:48:47
I did a lot of volunteering while I wasn't working - also with about 3 different organisations; plus sometimes singing in 2 choirs, trying to write, etc etc. it was ridiculous. i was the busiest unemployed person ever, and it did make me anxious. like you say, its not being able to say no, not being able to stop.
what helped me stop was counselling, really. I kept saying I felt like I wasn't doing or achieving anything because I couldn't work; one counsellor made me write down a list of everything I was doing and it pretty much filled up a whole page. whenever I went to see the counsellor they would pretty much be saying ' i think you need to look after yourself; make time for yourself; be a bit kinder to yourself; maybe stop doing so much as its clearly stressing you out' and after about 5 months it finally sank in.
I had felt like I needed to do all the volunteering etc to prove to myself that I hadn't disappeared, that I still had some kind of status, that people couldn't say I was just being a layabout on incapacity benefit.
eventually i think it just reached a point where I realised how much I resented doing all this volunteering stuff. i felt put upon and guilty - like the more I did the guiltier I felt! Fortunately I got a virus or something at about the same time (hm thinking about it maybe that was a mindbody one too) and had to spend two weeks on the sofa watching TV. It was AMAZING. I didn't do anything, didn't think, didn't help anyone, i just sat and drank tea and watched Friends. and i didn't feel guilty, because I was ill.
i think that was what I had probably needed all along. funnily enough, i have been reading Eckhart Tolle, the power of now, and was reading it last night and got to a bit where he talked about peoples lives going through cycles. He said sometimes you have very active cycles where you do loads of stuff and have lots of energy. But at other times you will go through a period where you have less energy, are more stagnant, where it feels like nothing is happening. But those periods are actually just as important - like winter and summer, you need the quiet times for old things to die off and new things to come up from under the surface.
however if you try to fight against the slow times and push through them, you can actually get ill: your body will force you to stop in order to regenerate.
reading that really hit a nerve: i think some of that is very true. I know a lot of TMS theory is about fighting and challenging it but I also think sometimes you need to stop fighting; stop pushing to create some kind of 'normality'. just let go and lie in a heap for a bit, even if its only for a couple of weeks. Not giving in to the physical symptoms, but just letting your poor overworked anxious brain completely veg out. you don't have to prove anything to anyone.
or sometimes I try to imagine what I would say if I was an agony aunt and someone wrote me a letter about what I have experienced: ' well, i was at this horrible job which was massivley stressful, then I got RSI and couldn't even write a sentence and was living at home on benefits, then I realised actually i'd had a nervous breakdown and felt massivle anxious about everything and to be honest i still feel a bit mental. but i feel like i should be working hard and earning lots of money!'
and if i was the agony aunt I would be saying to myself ' for gods sake woman, no wonder you had a nervous breakdown! To hell with earning money! let other people look after you for a bit! sit on the sofa with some tea!'
so i think that can help. think about what you would say to one of your friends, if what had happened to you had happened to them.
i know this is all easier said than done. it took me a long time to break out of the cycle of feeling I had to do things, then feeling resentful for doing them, and I really do still have to watch myself so that i don't get into that pattern again.
but just keep reminding yourself what a tough time you have had: be kind to yourself, look after yourself. i find it really helpful reading your posts as well because they remind me how hard all this stuff is and how i do also need to look after myself.
good luck! |
| brightondebs |
Posted - 03/09/2008 : 04:38:32
Thank you for this post. I really value everything you say as I feel I'm on a similar path just a little further behind :)I have also started to get very stressed and tense in the last few weeks and I haven't even gone back to work! What I have done is start volunteering. The thing is I started volunteering for 3 different organisations and no I find myself working the hours of a full time job including Saturdays because I just can't say no! It is crazy. How do we break out of these perfectionistic, goodist habits? I know my desire to help, to always say yes, to be the perfect volunteer, comes from a deep desire to be liked. How can I change this? I feel so run down and stressed but I've found myself booking up all of next week with more volunteer work already and I still have no money coming in as I don't actually have a paid job! What I should be focussed on his applying for jobs, not spending all my time and energy on voluntary work :( The thing is I am aware of this, I just don't know how to change. |
| campbell28 |
Posted - 02/26/2008 : 16:36:38
just thought i would write down some of the stuff thats been happening as I've gone back to work, in case it helps anyone and also because i think it helps me to write it all down sometimes as well.
i had a bit of a meltdown this evening - have been back at work two and a half weeks, doing part-time (27 hrs a week)as a receptionist. however some of the hours are pretty long - i work 8.30 - 6 two days a week and on a couple of these days have then gone to a three-hour choir rehearsal afterwards. yesterday we had a meeting in the lunch hour and then i went to choir so i guess I basically had a 12-hour day.
this is probably quite a lot for someone who until 2 weeks ago was doing volunteering two days a week and the occasional casual promotions shift.
i have noticed I was getting pretty tense and anxious, like I used to at my old job - its like my whole body is braced against some attack: my stomach muscles are tight, i can feel my breathing is shallower, and i end up sort of curled over as if i'm expecting someone to punch me in the stomach (this sounds sort of dramatic but i don't think anyone would notice, it all happens in a gradual low-key way). by the time i get home i don't want to talk to anyone and end up sort of squidged up tensely on the sofa.
thankfully the tension has not translated itself too much to the old rsi troublespots of shoulders and wrists, or if it has i've just been ignoring it.
i did really notice in choir though how much more tension i was carrying. i always have a tendency to dry up in singing, which i've worked out is fear of failure, but its got much better recently. the last couple of rehersals i was back to pretty much losing my voice half-way through and feeling like i was really forcing myself to produce some pretty horrid strangulated sounds.
then today i came home and just felt so anxious and horrible i knew i really needed to think properly about by feelings and what was going on underneath the anxiety. so after some angry tear-provoking scribbling i ended up in this sort of mad, angry, weepy dialogue with my brain: literally sitting on the floor going ' i don't want to do this stupid ****ing job, don't make me, i don't want to, its not fair' which i guess is my subconscious talking, and then also shouting at mys subconscious for making my body so tense ' stop it, its not real, why can't you just shut up'.
i still get residual stiffness and pain sometimes in my wrist which suddenly wmade me really angry so i was doing press-ups, punching things, splaying my hand on the wall, all sorts of stuff to prove to myself the pain wasn't real - and quite a few times it did just go away.
after about an hour and a half of this i sat back down and did some more writing and realised that the reason i was feeling so horrible wasn't really the job itself or the long hours. it was me putting pressure on myself again. I've been thinking ' i must do as many hours as possible so I can pay off my overdraft quickly and go away somewhere' which was putting my poor sad still somewhat nervous-breakdowned mind under such a lot of pressure. I was feeling trapped and hemmed in and scared of the job - but its not fear of the job itself, its fear of the pressure I put myself under.
why do i have to do loads of hours? i'm still earning double what i was last month on benefits. what is the point of making myself miserable all over again when I've only just figured out how to stop being miserable? I dont need to impress the people at this job with my amazing ability to be a receptionist.
people will only have high expectations of me if i run around like a headless chicken creating them. then i will feel pressurised by the expectations and get all anxious and tense again. if i just let go and take it easy and don't worry so much about being great at my job in the first place, then they won't expect so much of me and the pressure won't be there.
anyway, the positive thing about all this is that i managed to dig down to the feelings and figure out what was really wrong, and it came out in crying and some crazy air-punching rather than in some physical symptom. the anxiety has not totally gone, i wish it bloody would, but at least i did something to ease it and i know why its there.
i wish all this crap would just GO AWAY but i suppose, inevitably it is going to take time. and wishing myself better won't make me better. if anything, acknowledging that i'm still shaky and looking after myself is going to help me get over all this sooner. every time i start acting - however unconsciously - as if i'm a super-capable perfectly-balanced worker bee again, i am brought up with a big old jolt by my brain pleading with me to just take it a bit easier and buzz around looking at the flowers some more. old habits are hard to break but tomorrow i have the morning off and i am going to go and eat a biscuit in the park and look at the trees and try not to worry about what will happen in the afternoon. |
| Redsandro |
Posted - 02/24/2008 : 12:23:32
Just stepping by to say how I was lazy and postponed journaling. Now, two weeks later, the pain in my arms is gone.
It's pure happiness to see my mind fixing things on autopilot for a change. 
____________
TMS is the hidden language of the soul. |
| armchairlinguist |
Posted - 02/22/2008 : 13:25:19
quote:
Ok I just re-read the treatment parts of DM, MBC and HBP and he really isn't that vague, I'm supposed to make my list of things that contribute to my internal rage and think about them every day, and when I feel pain. I realise now I've been avoiding doing that or even acknowledging I'm supposed to be doing it.
There is something kind of ruefully funny about this realization. It is a common one. People also sometimes say there is nothing in X Sarno book about their condition. Then you read it and find that there is and you quote it to them and they go oh, I don't remember reading that, how did I miss it? No mystery, your unconscious is trying to make you forget. :)
Kelvin also has some good resources at his site http://www.etex.net/kelving/ (look for Daily TMS Exercise and Journaling Guide), and if you do need something very concrete, I assure you Mr. Amir's book will help you out, since his whole book is about concrete it is impossible to ignore it.
--
It's not 100% belief that's required, but 100% commitment. |
| Odrog |
Posted - 02/22/2008 : 12:38:42
quote:
Originally posted by campbell28
i think i'm also better when i don't look at the forums too much - i did find them very helpful but it seems after a while it was just keeping me thinking about tms. i know other people have said that.
I agree. I think the more you dwell on it, the worse off you are. Almost like you have to ignore it and blow it off to get better. Don't get me wrong, I think the forum is useful, I'm new here and it is/was great to read about other people going though the same mind body issues that I've been challenged with. Also a good place to find encouragement and to encourage others. Share what works. But I think at some point I'll have to "move on" so to speak.
|
| brightondebs |
Posted - 02/20/2008 : 12:22:55
I suspect this is a particularly clever way for my brain to trick me but after reading 3 of Sarno's books I still have this feeling that he never really goes into detail about what to do to get better! I'm the kind of person who needs concrete instructions and Sarno tends to says vague things like "think psychological". I lent MBP to a friend and he said the same thing so I know it's not just me :) At the moment I write a journal every morning, yell at my brain every time I get pain (this amazingly works, but sadly only for back pain) and try to listen to what is going on inside my head when I get particularly bad pain (usually I'm bored). I've also returned to normal activities as much as possible and try to disrespect the pain and not let it intimidate me. BUT I still have symptoms and I still can't do web work. Is there anything more I can do? Is it worth buying more books like Fred Amir's? I feel I am making progress but at the same time I feel I'm doing this whole thing "wrong"! I don't sit down and go over my emotional issues and I suspect that's because I'm afraid to. I'm so happy right now, my depression has totally gone, and I'm worried that will upset that. Hmm...that could be the problem right? :)
Ok I just re-read the treatment parts of DM, MBC and HBP and he really isn't that vague, I'm supposed to make my list of things that contribute to my internal rage and think about them every day, and when I feel pain. I realise now I've been avoiding doing that or even acknowledging I'm supposed to be doing it! Damn my brain. Buying more books would just enable me to avoid this further... |
| armchairlinguist |
Posted - 02/20/2008 : 10:41:05
campbell, glad to hear you are doing well with the transition back to work!
quote:
the more "secular" approach that places the emphasis on overcoming the fear conditioning and is less concerned with whether it evolved from (or is being perpetuated by) psychological reasons or other mechanisms (at least that's my read on McNamara).
I think he wrote a lot about conditioning because it can be hard to overcome, even if you quickly get the Sarno part sorted out. I found Amir's book extremely helpful in that regard too. Reconditioning was a major focus of my efforts for the weeks after I figured out the theory. Amir doesn't devote much of the book to discussing the psychology, but he does acknowledge it and discuss in vague terms some particular things that were issues (such as communication in his marriage). I think both of them (as well as I and virtually everyone I know of whose success story is published outside this forum) have severe reservations about exposing too much personal information to the world, so they tend to discuss the theory and then the practical parts of getting better, skipping the part where you apply the theory to yourself. That doesn't mean they didn't do it or it's not important.
--
It's not 100% belief that's required, but 100% commitment. |
| campbell28 |
Posted - 02/20/2008 : 08:00:47
I tried getting food intolerance testing on the advice of a homeopath and it came up with quite a few things - yeast and I think chocolate were the main ones. so i did a months exclusion diet and while everyone said my skin looked great at the end, it made no difference to the rsi or my (mild) psoriasis( thank god because i find chocolate exceptionally soothing). now i eat everything and its all fine.
the other thing about excluding foods was that it made me feel even more different and alienated from everyone. i already felt very detached and strange because of everything that was happening to me, and having to constantly think about what i was going to eat and when, and refusing pudding and wine etc when other people were eating, made ame feel even worse and focused my mind even more on what was 'wrong' with me physically and how awful everything was, making me think about the physical symptoms even more and obssess about what might be causing them. in that sense it sort of adds to the distraction from what is really going on
i also spent a long time hunting up scientific explanations for how tms 'worked' , having doubts, going round and round in circles etc etc.
in the end it is just like armchair says: even if you don't totally believe it or arent' satisfied with the expanations, if you act like you do believe it and keep telling your subconscious that you believe it, eventually it works.
and i think you do need to keep up the emotional work. i started back at work last week at a receptionists job and i have been physically fine - but I have to keep reminding myself that I need to look after myself. i need to come home and ask myself how i feel, and if i feel angry or sad to let it out by writing stuff down or tearing stuff up or reading some sad book that will make me cry. otherwise i know i would revert to the old pattern of gritting my teeth and keeping going which is what started it all off.
i think i'm also better when i don't look at the forums too much - i did find them very helpful but it seems after a while it was just keeping me thinking about tms. i know other people have said that.
anyway good luck debs and mcone - i think i am really coming out of the tunnel (i went to kung fu on tues for the first time in 2 years and it was absolutely fine) and YOU WILL TOO. just keep thinking emotionally and telling yourselves you are physically fine! |
| mcone |
Posted - 02/19/2008 : 20:51:41
quote:
Originally posted by armchairlinguist
* * *
The next step is just to ignore the reasons and get on with it. Eventually, you'll find your own synthesis of the various theories and you'll drop into a place that you're comfortable with. Don't push your brain to do it now when you are not ready. You need the experience of committing and doing the work first and then you'll see how things fit together after.
* * *
It's not an all-or-nothing, but you are not in a position right now to figure out what the percentages are because you haven't had the necessary experience with TMS treatment, and the answer is not important in the short run.
To be totally honest, I can't claim to have invested consistent effort in the psychological work. I've done emotional work sporadically, have come up with many good insights - perhaps even the most critical ones, but then I've rationalized that this was likely sufficient (i.e., I assumed that this basic knowledge, by itself, should be the cure). And I've generally been much more pre-occupied with the more "secular" approach that places the emphasis on overcoming the fear conditioning and is less concerned with whether it evolved from (or is being perpetuated by) psychological reasons or other mechanisms (at least that's my read on McNamara).
I have to fully agree with ACL's direction here - and my very bright and sincere (non-TMS) therapist agrees as well. As much as I'd like a greater sense of control, and an ehanced understanding of the process (with all questions answered), its in my interest to put the academics aside for now, get beyond reversal of fear conditioning as the sole focus, and commit fully to the psychological work - to fully integrating and assimilating as thoroughly as possible all those past sources of rage (and corresonding future anxieties).
|
| armchairlinguist |
Posted - 02/19/2008 : 12:55:25
Your last paragraph sounds about right. I think you are going in the right direction.
quote:
But the path he [Nate] arrived at was arguably, a somewhat adapated version of TMS.
This I didn't get from his pages at all. He went the full Sarno route, using a number of Fred Amir techniques to supplement Sarno's.
One important thing here is to remember that the reasons that you're coming up with not to believe don't really make that much sense -- they're just being manufactured by your brain to sound plausible to you. The next step is just to ignore the reasons and get on with it. Eventually, you'll find your own synthesis of the various theories and you'll drop into a place that you're comfortable with. Don't push your brain to do it now when you are not ready. You need the experience of committing and doing the work first and then you'll see how things fit together after.
No one is claiming that zero of our health comes from our physical decisions and situation. Eating right and exercising are important for good health irrespective of TMS. You can not have any major TMS troubles and yet still have diabetes and high blood pressure and be short of breath because you eat too much, or get neuro symptoms because you have B12 deficiency. It's not an all-or-nothing, but you are not in a position right now to figure out what the percentages are because you haven't had the necessary experience with TMS treatment, and the answer is not important in the short run. You went the other route already. That path is trodden and you still have RSI. Get on this one for a while and see where you end up.
--
It's not 100% belief that's required, but 100% commitment. |
| mcone |
Posted - 02/18/2008 : 20:19:23
quote:
Originally posted by armchairlinguist
No, I don't think this is true. I think this is why YOU personally are having trouble.
* * *
I'm very, very serious when I say that you really need to get past this in order to complete your recovery. I wonder if you think I'm not serious because my remarks about it are sometimes jocular, so to clarify, I am.
You've got me figured out (mostly). And I know you are both genuine and very serious in your direction to me. I have responses on many levels.
First, my minds CEO - the part that evaluates how deeply and completely to invest in TMS (Wasn't there someone wise that said something 100% commitment?), and abandon the other medical (physical) thinking I've come to believe in as relevant to my situation (diet, nutrition, physiology, etc.) has been churning the evidence for months with no clear decision:
One the one hand, TMS works for many people, has offered accurate insights into personality and emotional patterns, seems to explain many otherwise, inexplicable physical symptoms, etc. On the other hand, there are other medical disciplines that also seem credible (my personal experience with nutrition in particular really did seem to change me life). And some of my symptoms and pain patterns seem to defy TMS (and the typcial "RSI" pattern as well) so I end up questing whether TMS is my particular answer regardless of the soundness of TMS).
So, as you've observed, I'm driving myself crazy looking for the meta-model, the elusive explanation that explains my symptoms in light of the physical models as well as the TMS model. [Of course, I continue to do this even though I'm aware that this churning is supposed to be a distraction mechanism of TMS]
Yet, another courageous individual I greatly respect is Nate McNamara - he recovered from a very serious "RSI" via mindbody. It is true that he believed completely and was 100% committed to the path he chose - and I do see how that is necessary for success - but the path he arrived at was arguably, a somewhat adapated version of TMS.
I'm not sure if this is an impasse or some kind of "rite of passage". I can't entirely abandon some of the physical thinking, but I believe that I can place it into a relationship with TMS, where I understand the psychological to be a critical component. Perhaps common sense and recognizing the benefits and limitations of high quality physical inputs (i.e., good diet and exercise) while also acknowledging that the psychological inputs are the most important factors determining whether one maintains health or arrives at dysfunction under conditions of physical or mental stress. And that TMS-type pyschological work (i.e., emotional awareness, reconcilation or acknowledgment of past, coming to terms with anxiety about future, etc.) is mandatory and insurmountable by any other means. I'm not quite there yet, but I might be moving in the right direction. |
| armchairlinguist |
Posted - 02/18/2008 : 01:18:44
quote:
A perfect example is ACL - If there truly was a phenomeon of increasing degenerative damage (as suggested here) it simply would not have been possible for ACL, Redsandro, HillaryN, and many others to recover while continuing to perform and even escelate the very activities purported to be harmful.
Exactly. BTW, I'm almost a 'poster child' for RSI (or rather, non-RSI). Computer use pretty much daily since the age of five, up to 8 hours a day and sometimes more, plus, hobbyist musician and web designer. If I don't have it, who does?
quote:
Despite the sizable number of demonstrable TMS recoveries and the compelling nature of these histories, the majority of people with health issues (who could likely be helped) have a hard time accepting TMS because of the absence of well-developed, and persuasive science to support the theory (and reconcile the theory with other medical thought).
No, I don't think this is true. I think this is why YOU personally are having trouble. And the reason that you personally are having this particular kind of trouble is that you are the analytical type and your mind doesn't want to give up obsessing about your symptoms and whether or not they are/were TMS as a distraction. Whether or not there should be work done I'm happy to debate (later, not in this thread), but it is not the reason, in my opinion, why most people have a hard time accepting the theory. The reason is that their unconscious is trying not to let them accept it, and because it goes against everything they've always been told.
I'm very, very serious when I say that you really need to get past this in order to complete your recovery. I wonder if you think I'm not serious because my remarks about it are sometimes jocular, so to clarify, I am. Your analytical mind doesn't have to be turned off. This isn't an exercise in faith. But you need to utilize its deeper capacities for finding patterns and understanding ideas instead of continuing to obesess at the surface level. I'm very sympathetic to the problem, since fighting anxiety and the accompanying obsessive thinking was a big part of my later work post-pain, but you must break this cycle because your brain is using it to fool you into thinking you're making progress when you're really just obsessing even more. The doubts and worries are extraneous noise from the unconscious, not the smart part of your mind reminding you about really important issues.
It's not 100% belief that's required. It's 100% commitment.
Also, just a footnote on Odrog's link: the device applies for CTS only.
--
It's not 100% belief that's required, but 100% commitment. |
| Wavy Soul |
Posted - 02/17/2008 : 23:10:42
quote:
I find all this quite ironic: The crusty old-school family doctor - whose knee-jerk reaction to elusive pain is to say - "stress, it's all in your head" was probably right - but couldn't really explain why, wasn't sympathetic, and really couldn't help much. But the new-world rheumatologist, armed with evidence of physiological changes in the body, is sympathetic, tries to help, but is starting from an ultimately erroneous premise that the etiology and treatment is physical.
Yes - I personally developed CFS and FMS 35 years ago and was majorly judged and eye-rolled at by docs who nonetheless were happy to take thousand of dollars to make me feel like an idiot. So when these illnesses started being recognized, it felt like love and validation. This is a bit of a complicated subject, actually. We've all probably noticed that there is a tendency among some of us to judge each other and adopt a kind of ifyoudon'tgetityou'reanidiot attitude. Hardly the right direction, whether our problems are physical or psychological.
My experience has been that some of the most loving practitioners are actually the most totally devoted to the physical model of things, because they are trying to make the marginalized, suffering chronic pain and fatigue people feel like they aren't crazy. So, again, as whoever it was (sorry - it's hard to check from the posting page) said above, it's kind of ironic, and not black and white at all.
xx
Love is the answer, whatever the question |
| Odrog |
Posted - 02/17/2008 : 18:27:12
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Originally posted by mcone
quote:
Originally posted by brightondebs
Now if rats can get RSI how can it be psychological??
I'm equally troubled by information of this type and I generally agree with the others.
I don't know why so many assume that every symptom that CAN be a mindbody symptom is always EXCLUSIVELY a mindbody disorder in everyone that has the symptom. You could have ringing in the ears because a loud firework just blew up in your face, or it could be a mindbody issue. You could have irritable bowl because you've got Crohns disease, or because you've got a mindbody issue, etc. etc.
If you're at this forum, and have read Sarno's books, chances are you already know you have a mindbody issue. If you have MULTIPLE symptoms on the lists of known mindbody symptoms, and you've got anxiety problems, then you should know what's up by now.
But getting back to the original post - I wanted to share my experience with RSI. As is common among us folks with anxiety/mindbody/TMS/autonomic overload (whatever you want to call it) issues my symptoms keep moving around. I went though an "RSI" phase that lasted about a year. I also work on computers all day, professionally. I thought for sure I had carpal tunnel syndrome. I started doing research. At the time, I had NO IDEA this could even BE a mindbody problem (had not read Sarno at that point in my life). I started doing exercises, tried lots of things. I switched the hand I was using for the computer mouse, I got an ergonomic keyboard, I made sure my posture was better, I started using a trackball, etc. None of that stuff really helped.
Then I saw people recommending a product called "C-Trac", I was skeptical and didn't want to shell out money for something that wouldn't help. But lots of people were saying it completely cured them in just 1-3 months. And they even had published clinical trials, so I knew it was not a scam. Some doctors were recommending it too. Well I figured I had little to lose. I bought one. I kid you not, it worked great, was not instant, I used it 3 times a day, following the instructions that came with it, I used it for about 3 months, and what do you know, ALL pain completely went away. No more pain in my hands or wrists, no more numbness, no more waking up in the middle of the night with shooting pain going down my forearms, or no feeling in my hands. None of these symptoms have come back, I have no issues like this at all anymore.
OK - so fast forward to today. Now I know that my symptoms were documented mindbody symptoms. I probably could have gotten over it without a medical device. And in fact my brain probably just accepted defeat and moved on to something else. Haha, this is what happens to many of us. You have to deal with the real problem instead of just dealing with symptoms. Of course this is something I'm still working on, but I do feel like I've made a ton of progress. The latest symptom I've had is dizziness, so far just one serious episode, and it hasn't come back, so I'm hoping I've beaten that as well because now I understand what it was and can laugh about it. More importantly I'm hoping I've started doing something to address the underlying anxiety that is contributing to my symptoms.
Just wanted to pass on a note of encouragement, there is hope, and you will get better. If you think props can help you, I do recommend the c-trac thing. Of course in all truthfulness its probably just a way to trick your mind into accepting defeat with a particular symptom and moving on to something else, but as long as you know that I don't see the harm...
I have absolutely no affiliation with this company, and like I said the product was probably only a "prop" that worked because I believed it would work but this is where I got the device I mentioned:
http://www.ctracforcts.com/
There is a link on the left for the efficacy study. |
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