| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Michele |
Posted - 10/31/2007 : 10:02:47
I'm back again . . . and still on crutches. My replacement was May 25, almost 23 weeks ago. I've had all sorts of tests, and will be getting a second and third opinion soon. In the meantime, my doctor is "guessing" tendinitis. I thought he was kidding. Last month the pain was because it had bled into the hip cavity. Before that it was because I was doing too much, yet the water therapist said I wasn't working hard enough. All the tests show the replacement is correctly placed and hasn't moved, and there are no fractures.
I am skeptical of a tendinitis diagnosis. On a scale of 1-10 for pain, mine is 15 most of the time, and usually when I put weight on it, not when I'm just sitting around.
I went to land physical therapy yesterday, after insisting my surgeon write the script, and for an hour cried and screamed my way through it. Today, I can barely move.
I am a TMS believer, but this has me totally stumped and completely frustrated. If I walk through the pain, which I can't because the pain is simply too great, I risk falling.
Today I went through my records and saw "avulsion" that he thinks may have happened at 3 weeks, or the tearing away from the bone.
Because it's been almost 23 weeks, is fear my problem? Because of the replacement surgery, I can't wrap my brain around the fact that TMS might be the cause of my inability to bear weight and walk.
HELP! |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| art |
Posted - 11/09/2007 : 15:23:47
Hey Michele...
That would be great. Any time. No great words of wisdom, just thought it might be fun to compare notes as runners, plus I've had some intermittent hip stuff of my own...Which I'm trying very, very hard to ignore...
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| Michele |
Posted - 11/07/2007 : 09:59:20
I thought some of you may be interested in this. I saw my psychotherapist yesterday, who has read Sarno, and understands TMS. I told her I wanted her to help me figure out any emotions that may be triggering TMS in my hip.
I saw her before the surgery, and now after, and have seen her on a regular basis for about 3 years.
She does not believe this is TMS. Her reasoning is that she knows me and how much work I did before the surgery to uncover many hidden emotions, I worked hard to acknowledge the emotions I was having before the surgery, as well as after, and I didn't run away from any of it then, and I haven't done it since. It helps to have someone like her who really knows you on a different level. She also said that by calling the pain TMS, I am putting the blame back on me and not the surgeon (something we're all good at). She said what she knows of me, and what she knows of TMS, it didn't connect for her.
Anne - I know my house is a pig pen, but honestly, I can look past it. One of my son's friends came to the house the other day when I was just getting home. when I opened the door I said, "Oh look, Marty cleaned the house" and I laughed. He said, "My mom only DREAMS about having a house this clean!" So it's all relative.
Thanks again everyone. Art, I'll be emailing you when I get a little downtime in my work. |
| Scottydog |
Posted - 11/05/2007 : 18:26:29
quote:
he also said it could be that the cup is in the wrong position for me
Michele,
my brother's surgeon admitted his op wasn't perfectly positioned but that the new bone growing around the cup would mean it would be fine in the long term but my brother dwells on the negative.
I'm an Xray technician and patients can recover fully from all sorts of nasty fractures of pelvis, femurs etc so try to be positive.
....lastly, when you are lying on your death bed will you be regretting that you let your house become a pig pen?
Anne |
| art |
Posted - 11/05/2007 : 11:44:33
Michele,
You've certainly got your share, that's evident.I'm guessing you're under more stress than you're even aware of, though clearly you're aware of a lot...If I were in your place, I'd be in hell over just not being able to run...I talk about this with my partner all the time, that I'm 56 years old and sooner or later I'm going to get some sort of injury that will make it impossible to continue as the work out hound I've been since my mid-20's,...I love running ...no matter what's gone on in my life over the years, which at times has been plenty, I've always been able to go out and do that..It brings me more joy and happiness than anything I can think of...
Pure guess work on my part, but if you were able to rule out TMS pre-surgery, I'm betting on structural causes now as well...These things are fixable...That's the good news. I'll make another bet, that you'll be in far better shape in 6 months or less than you are now...Do people ever get back to running who've had hip replacements?
If you feel like it, shoot me an e-mail...I admire your attitude and toughness, all the more so because your human fragility is all too evident as well...I've no great answers, but I've a willing ear...
Best of luck,
A.
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| skizzik |
Posted - 11/05/2007 : 11:41:26
I just noticed we posted at the same time Michele, and I did'nt see your last post.
Anyways, you just vented big time and let a lot out. Perhaps you thought I read all that and just posted hey "nothings perfect" and get on w/ it or something right after reading that. I can see where you'd maybe miss what I was saying, or took it wrong, or I'm trying to hard to get a discussion going here .
I read your post b4 mine and see that your'e dealing w/ a ton, I think I'm taking too much time to make too short of a point, and perhaps end up not helping (perfectionist anyone?). I don't know. |
| playsinpain |
Posted - 11/05/2007 : 11:40:54
Surgery makes everyone feel at least a little bit "violated". I can't imagine what a new joint feels like. But you are exactly right: what's done is done. It is time to move forward. You need to convince your mind that all is well physically. If it hurts too much right now to move on land, then move in the water. Start swimming laps and get those endorphans moving. If you believe TMS is at work now then follow the model and address those issues you wrote about....that's what you think about while your swimming those boring laps. If the surgeons say all should be well, believe them...start from scratch...new hip, no physical reason for any pain. ....I do believe, along w/ anger, regret plays a big role in TMS. Looking back on mistakes that can't be changed, and their consequences, is something I continually try, and often fail, to resist doing. Look forward. |
| Michele |
Posted - 11/05/2007 : 10:26:55
You're right, nothing is perfect. It wasn't perfect before, it isn't perfect now. Guess I'll get on with my life. |
| skizzik |
Posted - 11/05/2007 : 10:01:27
quote:
Originally posted by Michele
Until someone can definitely say to me EVERYTHING IS PERFECT, without hesitation
Sounds like us wishing we could go see Sarno and he would say Everything is TMS w/ out hesitation.
You used the words: Perfect, definitely, and "w/out hesitation"
This w/b great. And I hope to God that can be done.
But,
it reminds me of seeing the neuro-surgeon and he interupted me when I was giving him my symptoms and he just wanted to know on a scale of 1-10 where my pain was.
I wanted to discuss stress and emotions playing a role, and he just wanted to classify me as "drugs" or "surgery" and get on to the next patient.
He did say (i think just to agree w/ me and get me outta there) that "Yes, some pain can be psychosomatic". So I jumped on that, and he put his hands up and said "look, I need to know if your're in pain, are you? I need to know".
I just got bummed, and said I guess I'm dealing w/ it. And he said "if you're dealing w/ it, and it's not ruining your life, then "Stay far away from me"......
At that point I realized, or it confirmed, nothings perfect. He was'nt going by my scans, he was going by my pain.
As long as I continued to say I was in pain, they would find a reason. I was concerned about a fracture. He left the room to look at the scans, came back and said no fracture, "but you do have a big herniation. " Thanx, already knew that .
I get the feeling, as long as you keep saying your in pain, they will look for a nugget of abnormality to justify your pain every time no matter what.
I suppose exploratory surgery is the only way to ensure it's perfect.
Again, these are just my opinions, and "take", For all I know they find something and wallah, Michelle gets on w/ her life. I hope theres more "takes" out there. |
| Michele |
Posted - 11/05/2007 : 09:43:47
And let me add . . .
If you don't think I've agonized over whether I made the right decision or not, you'd be wrong. That is TMS thinking, since it's done and there's not a thing I can do about it now. I asked all the right questions, did my research, made my decision on the information I had and only AFTER ruling out TMS.
Yes, Lidge, maybe knowing TMS before makes this harder, I don't know. I've gone over a myriad of things in my life causing rage in addition to the surgery:
- I'm growing older.
- I'd rather be single, but marriage isn't that bad and can't afford to be single. (Pointing the finger at me as cause of unhappiness.)
- Oldest son attending an expensive college on partial football scholarship. College is having financial problems.
- Youngest son a senior in high school with big dreams, lacks motivation, failing classes he doesn't need to graduate, school messed up schedule.
- Youngest son wants to go to expensive college far away, no money, he's not ready.
- Law firm breaking up, no clue where I'll land, just know I'm going with my boss.
- Since surgery, I've gained weight.
- Increasing price of everything.
- No help around the house, it's become a pig pen.
. . . and on and on and on. Just like everyone else. We torture ourselves with the worry, stress, and the emotions that go with all these things. I KNOW that. As my psychotherapist says, "Once you know something, you know it, you never forget it." Even if we say we don't remember, the knowledge is in there.
(Just let me keep rambling, maybe I'll make a breakthrough.  )
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| Michele |
Posted - 11/05/2007 : 08:39:50
Well, I'm coming in here late and didn't check this board all weekend. Everyone raises interesting and legitimate ideas and concerns. My biggest concern is that the parts are placed correctly. Yes, I've had the tests. Another surgeon and the Mayo Clinic are now reviewing my file. When my doctor said it MIGHT be tendinitis, he also said it could be that the cup is in the wrong position for me or the bearings need to be changed. So he obviously believes that you can't see everything on film, so yes, doubt continues for me. Until someone can definitely say to me EVERYTHING IS PERFECT, without hesitation, then I believe I could wrap my brain around the fact that TMS is hounding me.
If I had been able to weight bear shortly after surgery, and then went backward with my progress, it would be easier to accept that TMS is working against me. However, weight bearing was never possible. I've had the weight bearing pain since surgery.
playsinpain - I didn't go from running 10Ks one day to having surgery the next. It happened over several years. This wasn't an easy decision on my part, especially knowing what I know about TMS. I rejected it and kept going, walking, running, living with constant pain in that hip. Obviously, that wasn't the answer, my hip collapsed. This was devastating to me and yes, enraging! How unfair! But if I didn't believe in TMS, the rest of my body would also be screaming in pain. It was not, and is not. Sure, right now the hip is a convenient spot for TMS to grab hold, I understand that.
I am in regular physical therapy pushing through the pain (and fear), knowing that if TMS is the culprit, it will figure out it's not going to win and leave. But I admit, I am scared that if the replacement is somehow not set correctly, then I may be causing additional damage by pushing through the pain.
FYI - I am a paralegal in a large law firm. You don't think my doctors are working harder than normal trying to figure this out?? Ha!
I do want to thank everyone for your comments. I will print them out and read them more thoroughly. Many great insights to consider. |
| skizzik |
Posted - 11/05/2007 : 07:37:04
quote:
Originally posted by lidge
You miss the point- Michelle said "the tests show.." - she did not say, "the tests show and I am convinced ...She states she is going for other opinions. This is what she needs to do to get some clarity and move forward without doubting herself. This is a place that Michelle has to get to- through gathering evidence and coming to her own conclusion.
sorry, wasn't a shot against you, nor was I disagreeing w/ anything you said, I was just putting quotes up there to hopefully strengthen her conviction or lack thereof and encourage discussion. |
| Scottydog |
Posted - 11/04/2007 : 20:44:55
My brother had a hip resurfacing op on July. It didn't seem to improve as quickly as expected. On his follow up with surgeon he was told the cup hadn't quite fitted as well as it ought but hopefully it will sort itself with time. New bone was forming so should heal ok.
Well, he has had physio, tried different crutches, sticks, has trouble driving, sometimes can't sleep at night for the pain, sometimes pain killers work sometimes not etc etc.
Well, he has also had financial problems, is coming up to retirement age with no savings, can only afford to retire if he sells up his beloved house, is still trying to keep his business going (requires heavy physical work), but of course due to not being as fit isn't making as much money as he should so in constant battle with bank, is divorced so has no one to help out when his hip plays up etc etc.
I'm sure it's TMS but what can you do? If only he would sell up his house the pressure to earn enough for the mortgage would be gone and he could work or not and see to getting his hip problem sorted (if he still had one), but it's not happened yet.
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| lidge |
Posted - 11/03/2007 : 17:06:35
You miss the point- Michelle said "the tests show.." - she did not say, "the tests show and I am convinced ...She states she is going for other opinions. This is what she needs to do to get some clarity and move forward without doubting herself. This is a place that Michelle has to get to- through gathering evidence and coming to her own conclusion.
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| skizzik |
Posted - 11/03/2007 : 14:17:14
quote:
Originally posted by Lidge
I think you need to eliminate in your mind that perhaps something was not done
correctly or is not placed right etc. My own feeling is that by doing that, you will free your mind to heal.
quote:
Originally posted by Michele
All the tests show the replacement is correctly placed and hasn't moved, and there are no fractures.
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| mcone |
Posted - 11/03/2007 : 11:11:40
While I know nothing about the physiologgy of hip replacement, one of my interpetations of TMS is that the anxiety/fear/rage leads to some type of oversensitization of affected muscles (and that this oversensitivity triggers additional physiological mechanisms of reduced blood flow, tension, possibly inflammation, etc. - which perpetuates and reinforces the oversensitization)
Continuing pain might be explained by longstanding muscle-use and nervous system response patterns, where, at this point, even light amounts of stimulation or muscle use are sufficient to cause extreme pain (and related physiological responses) - a process that continues, unless interrupted by overriding the way pain is interpreted and processed.
As all of us know already "disrespecting the pain" (and psychological work to identify underlying emotional causes) is suggested to ultimately extinguish the oversensitivty. But as you are describing, this is enormously challenging and seems to be bordeline impossible. (This is certainly the type of challenge I can relate to).
What steps can you take to acheive a high confidence level that the structural/physical is now sound? I've noted that there isn't any clearly identifiable structural concern and that there isn't any consensus on what might still be causing pain. Would your doctor support a program of pushing through pain? Could this be done safely?
Are you experiencing anxiety/fear? Fears and thoughts of continuing pain? or continuing disability? I notice that I simply "feel" fearful and anxious much of time. I'm working on paying just enough attention to these sensations to identify them and revalue them as "false nervous system responses". I try to consciously deny these feelings any type of cognitive expression/reinforcement - by deciding against spinning my wheels with speculative physiological models and speculative worrysome thoughts about my future.
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| lidge |
Posted - 11/03/2007 : 10:15:23
Skizzik-
I agree - lets start helping. You have hit on alot of good points. And yes its pointless to argue some of this "stoneage" stuff. I'm sorry for using the term "structural problem". I should have said structural abnormality. And yes, most of these are benign abnormalities that would be seen in anyone beyond their teenage years. But not all. And there is nothing magical about age- just because you are 50 doesn't mean you can't have a problem that usually doesn't show up till your 70.
Yes, lets start looking at this as how to help Michelle!
Michelle- I've looked back at some of your posts. I can identify with so much of what you say- we are the same age too.
Reading your posts, it seems you had the expectation that you would have a really quick recovery. You are a very active and athletic person and it seems that you were led to believe that the recovery would be fairly quick. If this is how the doctors presented it to you, then your inability to experience a "quick recovery" must be enraging! I know that is how I would feel! Almost a feeling of betrayal.
There is an element of having had the procedure "marketed" to you in a certain way. I'm sure you must feel like its been "bait and switch".
I recently thought I would need a hip replacement (I may yet one day in the future). I know I read up on it and recall reading that people who have been in pain for years and years have a better recovery because they are comparing their progress to years of misery. For those who have had an injury or not a long time in pain, the recovery is not as wonderful because it is more sudden. I'm not sure how long you have had the pain, but would you say you fall more into the second group?
I do agree that being aware of TMS,while at the same time having the surgery, poses some real internal conflicts for you. I feel it myself. Could that be part of what is holding back the recovery?
On a more "physical note"- I'm sure they did all the proper pre-tests, but do you know your bone density and vitamin D levels etc.? I have discovered problems in this regard and am trying to get the answers I need. I do know that with any surgery where "hardware" in placed, your bones need to be strong enough. Its hard to believe this wasn't looked into- but just throwing it out there as a vague possiblity.
Are you and the doctor satisfied that there is nothing wrong with how the hip was placed etc.?
If your doctor cannot understand why you are not recovering as expected- is it possible to go to another orthopedist or specialist for an opinion? A doctor's ego is always involved here and if something was not done perfectly, having the person that did the surgery evaluate his own work may be getting in the way. I think if you rule these things out, your mind can clear a path for healing psychologically. ON this I differ with Skizzik- I think you need to eliminate in your mind that perhaps something was not done
correctly or is not placed right etc. My own feeling is that by doing that, you will free your mind to heal.
And yes, as Skizzik said seeing people who had hip replacement on "Dancing on the Stars" or Jane Fonda out there must lead to negative comparisons. One thing I have learned is that all is not as it seems with celebrities. I remember as a teen reading a booklet put out by Susan Dey on how she stayed thin through healthy eating and exercise. Years later she admitted she was an anorexic throughout most of her teenage years. 
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| playsinpain |
Posted - 11/03/2007 : 10:08:19
I think part of the problem is that some mistake this site for a chronic pain management type of thing. Sarno's ideas were never meant to be part of some quiver to address ongoing misery. It really is an all or nothing deal. Either Michele absolutely accepts that her "bone on bone" diagnosis was not the explanation for her pain, or she doesn't......obviously, right now, she doesn't. Until she can get her mind completely around that idea there really isn't much of a point. Like I said before, dabbling in TMS is actually counterproductive because it casts doubt on your Dr.'s credibility, thus undermining any placebo benefits conventional models may afford. It really is alot like AA....often times one has to hit rock bottom, be completely out of options before progress can be made. |
| skizzik |
Posted - 11/03/2007 : 09:20:08
quote:
Originally posted by lidge
Why is it not possible to have TMS and real structural problems?
Problem is such a strong word. I like "normal abnormality" like in the 20/20 special.
If half the western world w/ herniated discs have symptoms, and the other half is asymptomatic w/ the same "normal abnormality", I'm choosing to be asymptomatic (harder than it sounds of course), but why can't I be an asymptomatic statistic? Why do I have to have pain?
I have to keep reminding myself it's not a "problem" it's a "normal abnormality". And as far as I'm concerned, the only MRI's that show no abnormalities would have to be children and teenagers. Because they will mention mild-moderate disc height loss in every MRI if your'e 19 or over.
We can peck away at playsinpain stoneage example all day for exceptions, but he's "right on" in theory.
My heart is so out to you Michele. Your'e still on crutches over 20 weeks post operation. when celebrity Mark Cuban had his hip replacement in June and jumped right into "dancing w/ the stars."
I feel you're stuck between 2 worlds of distraction that are feeding off each other. Obviously, you can't have bone on bone pain anymore because the bone is gone. Replaced w/ fantastic man made synthetic material. The joint is better than ever. So the pain is lig,tend,nerve or muscle related. Hmmmmm.
The doc's are appear stumped. I'm not where you are, can't see you, can't feel what you have. But in my opinion.......perhaps,....I don't know....I can't help but feel you need to cancel all doc and pt appts and get on w/ your life little by little.
How else are you gonna get on w/ your life? Thats the TMS way. You have to let go. If your'e convinced you still have structural issues after the bone on bone problem has been fixed, then it's time to post on a hip replacement message board.
Obviously, these are my opinions and thoughts only, and Michele is responsible for her actions. But once "serious" things are omitted. And even Sarno says hip replacements are a modern achievement for sure, then whats left?
If this is a TMS board, and serious things have been ruled out, then it's time to "let go". Cancel doc and Pt appts. Find a passion besides running for the meantime. Take up guitar lessons, something. Look back 2 mos from now and see how your'e doing.
If your leg falls off (which ain't gonna happen) or you wake up in massive inflammation, or bruising, there's always the ER.
I hope others here argue my opinion. I don't want to be the last word. But what the heck is this site doing here if a member had a Sarno "seal of approval" surgery, the bone on bone pain is terminated, and now She has massive pain in the "soft tissues".
Theres no cancer, bone disease, etc.....
C'mon members, put in your 2cents. One of us is suffering, and there's hundreds of us checking in, Freaking say something and help out. It's TMS HELP SITE .....START HELPING!!!! We need serious discussion here! |
| playsinpain |
Posted - 11/03/2007 : 08:39:03
So when you get an MRI and the MD tells you the filling between your discs is gone and it's "bone on bone" then, of course, that's structural and spinal fusion is necessary. Or when the knee cartlidge is gone then knee replacement is necessary. I was hit by a car when I was fifteen...broken legs,ribs,elbow, severe concussion.
After nearly 4 months in traction, do you know what my orthopedist told me was going to be my only lasting problem? I would probably have back pain because of what turned out to be a infintismal crack in my vertabrae. Years later, after 20 care-free years of hardcore athletics, skateboarding in swimming pools, surfing large, very cold waves, etc...I got married and started a family....enter severe back pain. What kind of structural damage do you think my MRIs showed?
One very rediculous and painful back surgery later I got Sarno and put 2 and 2 together....my point is that I don't buy, and neither does Sarno, this tipping point crap where one week you can be running ten Ks and the next your in bed becaquse that last itty bitty piece of cushion was lost and it's now "bone on bone"....all before you even turn 50!!!
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| armchairlinguist |
Posted - 11/02/2007 : 21:14:54
playsinpain, you may be off-target here. There are structural problems, sometimes. Even Sarno says so. You are supposed to see a doctor to rule out serious causes for the pain. It is quite possible, though Sarno would say uncommon or rare, to have a structural issue as well as TMS. Bone-on-bone is one of those.
Honestly, I find the "people didn't hurt in the Stone Age" stuff kind of silly, from Sarno or anyone else. People hardly lived to be 40 in the Stone Age, and furthermore we have no idea how much pain they had, except that enough of them didn't die of pain or some secondary consequence thereof that they managed to reproduce. Our bodies are resilient, but not 100% of the time.
I dunno about the hip, Michele. I hope you have some improvement soon. Can you keep covering the TMS ground, at least, just to try to keep the reservoir clear? This pain and not knowing why must be filling it up something fierce. It sounds like your doctors are getting to the 'clueless' point, unfortunately.
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It's not 100% belief that's required, but 100% commitment. |
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