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Michele
249 Posts |
 Posted - 10/31/2007 : 10:02:47
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I'm back again . . . and still on crutches. My replacement was May 25, almost 23 weeks ago. I've had all sorts of tests, and will be getting a second and third opinion soon. In the meantime, my doctor is "guessing" tendinitis. I thought he was kidding. Last month the pain was because it had bled into the hip cavity. Before that it was because I was doing too much, yet the water therapist said I wasn't working hard enough. All the tests show the replacement is correctly placed and hasn't moved, and there are no fractures.
I am skeptical of a tendinitis diagnosis. On a scale of 1-10 for pain, mine is 15 most of the time, and usually when I put weight on it, not when I'm just sitting around.
I went to land physical therapy yesterday, after insisting my surgeon write the script, and for an hour cried and screamed my way through it. Today, I can barely move.
I am a TMS believer, but this has me totally stumped and completely frustrated. If I walk through the pain, which I can't because the pain is simply too great, I risk falling.
Today I went through my records and saw "avulsion" that he thinks may have happened at 3 weeks, or the tearing away from the bone.
Because it's been almost 23 weeks, is fear my problem? Because of the replacement surgery, I can't wrap my brain around the fact that TMS might be the cause of my inability to bear weight and walk.
HELP! |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2007 : 19:49:29
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I've nothing very helpful to offer accept my heart, which goes out to you...I hear how much pain you're in and you've got evry bit of my sympathy and hope for your speedy improvement...
What do the docs say about the chances of doing yourself real harm by fighting through the pain? Are they giving you sufficient pain meds? How much pain is "normal" with this procedure? |
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JohnD
USA
371 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2007 : 04:45:05
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Michele,
Sorry to hear about your struggle these past few months :(
What comes to mind for me is I'm wondering if there is any way you could go see a TMS doc? |
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Michele
249 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2007 : 09:30:40
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quote:
Originally posted by art
I've nothing very helpful to offer accept my heart, which goes out to you...I hear how much pain you're in and you've got evry bit of my sympathy and hope for your speedy improvement...
What do the docs say about the chances of doing yourself real harm by fighting through the pain? Are they giving you sufficient pain meds? How much pain is "normal" with this procedure?
Thank you for the kind words, Art. My surgeon hasn't said whether I should fight through the pain. In the summer he said I was doing too much, yet he was the one who had me walking the hallways and stairwells 24 hours after surgery, and then 3 weeks of PT at home. If I was doing too much, I was only following HIS orders. Then the water therapist didn't think I was trusting my muscles enough and was too tense to get any benefit from therapy. After 10 weeks of water therapy 3 times a week, shouldn't there be some progress? So I think everyone is just guessing at this point.
How much pain is normal with this procedure? Usually, people wake up from surgery and announce their pain is finally gone! (bone on bone pain is excruciating) I was expecting my response to be the same, and walking in 2-3 weeks, but it was not, and weight bearing pain is still bad - much, much worse than before the surgery.
Wish I had a do-over!! |
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Michele
249 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2007 : 09:34:13
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quote:
Originally posted by JohnD
Michele,
Sorry to hear about your struggle these past few months :(
What comes to mind for me is I'm wondering if there is any way you could go see a TMS doc?
I wish there was a way, but no one is close. My psychotherapist is familiar with Sarno, so she's been trying to help me. I know that I'm extremely angry right now, but under that is sadness, disappointment, fear. I've even wondered if there's some relief that I won't be pushing myself to meet others athletic expectations anymore. I was one of those people who pushed and pushed to keep up, and it was always hard for me, it never came too easy (I was/am a runner).
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skizzik
USA
783 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2007 : 10:57:59
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I can't help but think you need a breakthru. If you still have all this pain, and are totally distracted, per Sarno, your'e in a "blind rage".
You've probably journaled your hand off, but as Sensei Adam told me, "I'm in the right direction, but perhaps on the wrong path".
Your Doc will have a different reason why you say you continue to be in pain every time you ask. He can't say your'e crazy.
I think you have a "constant source of irritation" thats being repressed automatically by your mind because perhaps society would think it was absurd for someone to complain about such a thing.
follow the "tension" to get to the "rage" |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2007 : 20:36:14
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Michele,
My general approach to pain is to fight through it as much as possible, as long as I'm pretty sure I'm not doing myself any real harm...Of course that's a pretty big qualification...I'm not comparing my piddling over-use pain in any way to yours, which I know is far greater, but as a runner I'm confronted with the dilemma of whether to rest or whether to challenge all the time...
For me, the number one litmus test is, is the pain getting clearly worse with continued running?...The pain can be pretty intense, but as long as things remain status quo I'll continue on...I think the body is pretty reliable in this regard, or let me amend that 'cause I can't speak for anyone but me...my experience has been that my body is pretty reliable in this regard...
I guess I'm saying that if you've established a kind of baseline or threshold of pain that seems pretty reliable no matter how hard you push, I'd tend to keep pushing...Especially if they're not finding anything structural (and let's remember these guys are great at finding things whether they exist or not)....
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Edited by - art on 11/01/2007 20:36:59 |
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Michele
249 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2007 : 08:43:40
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Art, I used to use that approach to my running as well. I pushed through alot of "pain" and didn't get hurt. That's why I'm having trouble wrapping my brain around this one. I pushed hard at water therapy for 10 weeks and it stayed the same. Now I'm pushing even harder at regular physical therapy and it is worse when I get done. I am scheduled for 5 more sessions and the surgeon really doesn't want me to go much past that. If after these sessions there is no improvement or it's worse, it could be that the implant is not positioned correctly for me, or the bearings have slipped, and surgery would be necessary to correct the structural problem. If it is a structural problem with the replacement (which is not ME, per se), then surgery IS the best option because it's not going to correct itself. See my dilemma?
But I'll keep pushing and keep listening to my Sarno CD, and reading my book, and writing, writing and writing. I'll keep you posted.
Thanks for the comments guys - they really do help! |
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playsinpain
28 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2007 : 12:08:51
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| Why did you get the surgery in the first place? |
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Michele
249 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2007 : 14:23:03
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quote:
Originally posted by playsinpain
Why did you get the surgery in the first place?
My hip was bone on bone, didn't really have a choice. Or I guess my choice could have been to limp with pain and pop painkillers for a while, and I didn't like that option. I wasn't able to walk very far, or do the things I enjoyed anymore. I'd have to get it sooner or later, and I chose sooner so I could get on with my life (I'm 48). |
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playsinpain
28 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2007 : 16:17:10
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| so, you don't buy into the TMS model? |
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lidge
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2007 : 16:52:46
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Why is it not possible to have TMS and real structural problems? I am struggling with this issue myself and I don't think its necessarily all or nothing. I recently found some odd finding with my hip (rare childhood disease or dysplasia like Michelle). I'm not sure where this fits into my current pain which is back and neck, but sometimes one can have both structural and TMS issues. Sarno points this out in his books, especially in older people. Like Michelle, I'm in my late forties and never expected to find some of these things till I was 80.
Genetics unfortunately play a role. I think its an extra challenge if you have both- what is TMS, what is not etc. No one wants to have an operation they don't need, but nor do you want to be in pain endlessly if the "preponderance of evidence" leads you to conclude its structural. |
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playsinpain
28 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2007 : 18:05:58
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| Men and Woman have been doing hard labor for centuries without getting hip replacements. Granted, life cycles were much, much shorter, but still, our structures are far more robust than we give them credit for. Anyway, one thing is clear, you simply can't buy into Sarno's program selectively and expect results. It will not happen. In fact, it is counterproductive because you begin to question conventional medicine and simply become confused and rudderless. |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2007 : 21:14:54
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playsinpain, you may be off-target here. There are structural problems, sometimes. Even Sarno says so. You are supposed to see a doctor to rule out serious causes for the pain. It is quite possible, though Sarno would say uncommon or rare, to have a structural issue as well as TMS. Bone-on-bone is one of those.
Honestly, I find the "people didn't hurt in the Stone Age" stuff kind of silly, from Sarno or anyone else. People hardly lived to be 40 in the Stone Age, and furthermore we have no idea how much pain they had, except that enough of them didn't die of pain or some secondary consequence thereof that they managed to reproduce. Our bodies are resilient, but not 100% of the time.
I dunno about the hip, Michele. I hope you have some improvement soon. Can you keep covering the TMS ground, at least, just to try to keep the reservoir clear? This pain and not knowing why must be filling it up something fierce. It sounds like your doctors are getting to the 'clueless' point, unfortunately.
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It's not 100% belief that's required, but 100% commitment. |
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playsinpain
28 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2007 : 08:39:03
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So when you get an MRI and the MD tells you the filling between your discs is gone and it's "bone on bone" then, of course, that's structural and spinal fusion is necessary. Or when the knee cartlidge is gone then knee replacement is necessary. I was hit by a car when I was fifteen...broken legs,ribs,elbow, severe concussion.
After nearly 4 months in traction, do you know what my orthopedist told me was going to be my only lasting problem? I would probably have back pain because of what turned out to be a infintismal crack in my vertabrae. Years later, after 20 care-free years of hardcore athletics, skateboarding in swimming pools, surfing large, very cold waves, etc...I got married and started a family....enter severe back pain. What kind of structural damage do you think my MRIs showed?
One very rediculous and painful back surgery later I got Sarno and put 2 and 2 together....my point is that I don't buy, and neither does Sarno, this tipping point crap where one week you can be running ten Ks and the next your in bed becaquse that last itty bitty piece of cushion was lost and it's now "bone on bone"....all before you even turn 50!!!
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skizzik
USA
783 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2007 : 09:20:08
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quote:
Originally posted by lidge
Why is it not possible to have TMS and real structural problems?
Problem is such a strong word. I like "normal abnormality" like in the 20/20 special.
If half the western world w/ herniated discs have symptoms, and the other half is asymptomatic w/ the same "normal abnormality", I'm choosing to be asymptomatic (harder than it sounds of course), but why can't I be an asymptomatic statistic? Why do I have to have pain?
I have to keep reminding myself it's not a "problem" it's a "normal abnormality". And as far as I'm concerned, the only MRI's that show no abnormalities would have to be children and teenagers. Because they will mention mild-moderate disc height loss in every MRI if your'e 19 or over.
We can peck away at playsinpain stoneage example all day for exceptions, but he's "right on" in theory.
My heart is so out to you Michele. Your'e still on crutches over 20 weeks post operation. when celebrity Mark Cuban had his hip replacement in June and jumped right into "dancing w/ the stars."
I feel you're stuck between 2 worlds of distraction that are feeding off each other. Obviously, you can't have bone on bone pain anymore because the bone is gone. Replaced w/ fantastic man made synthetic material. The joint is better than ever. So the pain is lig,tend,nerve or muscle related. Hmmmmm.
The doc's are appear stumped. I'm not where you are, can't see you, can't feel what you have. But in my opinion.......perhaps,....I don't know....I can't help but feel you need to cancel all doc and pt appts and get on w/ your life little by little.
How else are you gonna get on w/ your life? Thats the TMS way. You have to let go. If your'e convinced you still have structural issues after the bone on bone problem has been fixed, then it's time to post on a hip replacement message board.
Obviously, these are my opinions and thoughts only, and Michele is responsible for her actions. But once "serious" things are omitted. And even Sarno says hip replacements are a modern achievement for sure, then whats left?
If this is a TMS board, and serious things have been ruled out, then it's time to "let go". Cancel doc and Pt appts. Find a passion besides running for the meantime. Take up guitar lessons, something. Look back 2 mos from now and see how your'e doing.
If your leg falls off (which ain't gonna happen) or you wake up in massive inflammation, or bruising, there's always the ER.
I hope others here argue my opinion. I don't want to be the last word. But what the heck is this site doing here if a member had a Sarno "seal of approval" surgery, the bone on bone pain is terminated, and now She has massive pain in the "soft tissues".
Theres no cancer, bone disease, etc.....
C'mon members, put in your 2cents. One of us is suffering, and there's hundreds of us checking in, Freaking say something and help out. It's TMS HELP SITE .....START HELPING!!!! We need serious discussion here! |
Edited by - skizzik on 11/03/2007 09:44:40 |
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playsinpain
28 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2007 : 10:08:19
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| I think part of the problem is that some mistake this site for a chronic pain management type of thing. Sarno's ideas were never meant to be part of some quiver to address ongoing misery. It really is an all or nothing deal. Either Michele absolutely accepts that her "bone on bone" diagnosis was not the explanation for her pain, or she doesn't......obviously, right now, she doesn't. Until she can get her mind completely around that idea there really isn't much of a point. Like I said before, dabbling in TMS is actually counterproductive because it casts doubt on your Dr.'s credibility, thus undermining any placebo benefits conventional models may afford. It really is alot like AA....often times one has to hit rock bottom, be completely out of options before progress can be made. |
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lidge
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2007 : 10:15:23
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Skizzik-
I agree - lets start helping. You have hit on alot of good points. And yes its pointless to argue some of this "stoneage" stuff. I'm sorry for using the term "structural problem". I should have said structural abnormality. And yes, most of these are benign abnormalities that would be seen in anyone beyond their teenage years. But not all. And there is nothing magical about age- just because you are 50 doesn't mean you can't have a problem that usually doesn't show up till your 70.
Yes, lets start looking at this as how to help Michelle!
Michelle- I've looked back at some of your posts. I can identify with so much of what you say- we are the same age too.
Reading your posts, it seems you had the expectation that you would have a really quick recovery. You are a very active and athletic person and it seems that you were led to believe that the recovery would be fairly quick. If this is how the doctors presented it to you, then your inability to experience a "quick recovery" must be enraging! I know that is how I would feel! Almost a feeling of betrayal.
There is an element of having had the procedure "marketed" to you in a certain way. I'm sure you must feel like its been "bait and switch".
I recently thought I would need a hip replacement (I may yet one day in the future). I know I read up on it and recall reading that people who have been in pain for years and years have a better recovery because they are comparing their progress to years of misery. For those who have had an injury or not a long time in pain, the recovery is not as wonderful because it is more sudden. I'm not sure how long you have had the pain, but would you say you fall more into the second group?
I do agree that being aware of TMS,while at the same time having the surgery, poses some real internal conflicts for you. I feel it myself. Could that be part of what is holding back the recovery?
On a more "physical note"- I'm sure they did all the proper pre-tests, but do you know your bone density and vitamin D levels etc.? I have discovered problems in this regard and am trying to get the answers I need. I do know that with any surgery where "hardware" in placed, your bones need to be strong enough. Its hard to believe this wasn't looked into- but just throwing it out there as a vague possiblity.
Are you and the doctor satisfied that there is nothing wrong with how the hip was placed etc.?
If your doctor cannot understand why you are not recovering as expected- is it possible to go to another orthopedist or specialist for an opinion? A doctor's ego is always involved here and if something was not done perfectly, having the person that did the surgery evaluate his own work may be getting in the way. I think if you rule these things out, your mind can clear a path for healing psychologically. ON this I differ with Skizzik- I think you need to eliminate in your mind that perhaps something was not done
correctly or is not placed right etc. My own feeling is that by doing that, you will free your mind to heal.
And yes, as Skizzik said seeing people who had hip replacement on "Dancing on the Stars" or Jane Fonda out there must lead to negative comparisons. One thing I have learned is that all is not as it seems with celebrities. I remember as a teen reading a booklet put out by Susan Dey on how she stayed thin through healthy eating and exercise. Years later she admitted she was an anorexic throughout most of her teenage years. 
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mcone
114 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2007 : 11:11:40
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While I know nothing about the physiologgy of hip replacement, one of my interpetations of TMS is that the anxiety/fear/rage leads to some type of oversensitization of affected muscles (and that this oversensitivity triggers additional physiological mechanisms of reduced blood flow, tension, possibly inflammation, etc. - which perpetuates and reinforces the oversensitization)
Continuing pain might be explained by longstanding muscle-use and nervous system response patterns, where, at this point, even light amounts of stimulation or muscle use are sufficient to cause extreme pain (and related physiological responses) - a process that continues, unless interrupted by overriding the way pain is interpreted and processed.
As all of us know already "disrespecting the pain" (and psychological work to identify underlying emotional causes) is suggested to ultimately extinguish the oversensitivty. But as you are describing, this is enormously challenging and seems to be bordeline impossible. (This is certainly the type of challenge I can relate to).
What steps can you take to acheive a high confidence level that the structural/physical is now sound? I've noted that there isn't any clearly identifiable structural concern and that there isn't any consensus on what might still be causing pain. Would your doctor support a program of pushing through pain? Could this be done safely?
Are you experiencing anxiety/fear? Fears and thoughts of continuing pain? or continuing disability? I notice that I simply "feel" fearful and anxious much of time. I'm working on paying just enough attention to these sensations to identify them and revalue them as "false nervous system responses". I try to consciously deny these feelings any type of cognitive expression/reinforcement - by deciding against spinning my wheels with speculative physiological models and speculative worrysome thoughts about my future.
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skizzik
USA
783 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2007 : 14:17:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Lidge
I think you need to eliminate in your mind that perhaps something was not done
correctly or is not placed right etc. My own feeling is that by doing that, you will free your mind to heal.
quote:
Originally posted by Michele
All the tests show the replacement is correctly placed and hasn't moved, and there are no fractures.
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lidge
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2007 : 17:06:35
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You miss the point- Michelle said "the tests show.." - she did not say, "the tests show and I am convinced ...She states she is going for other opinions. This is what she needs to do to get some clarity and move forward without doubting herself. This is a place that Michelle has to get to- through gathering evidence and coming to her own conclusion.
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Hip Replacement Problems
