| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| la_kevin |
Posted - 08/28/2007 : 01:30:14
Edited for privacy issue and personal info.
|
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| AnthonEE |
Posted - 09/07/2007 : 13:40:00
The "unreality" was by far the worst part for me. I am a real math/physics guy and I prize the integrity of my mind as much if not more than anything else. So my overwhelming fear was that I had somehow been damaged. There was a feeling of near certainty that I had lost my mind, or that I would never recover to my old self again. It was simply nightmarish. I just wanted my old self back. Back to the innocent days before this had happened, with just a little insomnia and "simple" depression/anxiety that "normal" people get. The new burden was so much greater.
But what I can tell you is that the unreality fog has long since lifted. It was one of the first things to go away, and god be willing it will never come back again. And my mind is as sharp now as it's ever been, I can assure you of that, my work proves it. So do try to keep the anxiety down about that concern. Assuming this is in fact what you are experiencing...
Go study the website, www.benzo.org.uk, there is a wealth of info there including many experiences from others, support groups, etc. It will help you, and possibly your doctor as well, to judge if the sudden Klonopin cessation is part of your issue. But be wary of some doctors input, many just look at you sideways and poo-poo the mere suggestion that a benzo withdrawal can cause all this. Trust me, I've been there, and so have many others. Your doctor needs to be open minded.
I also noticed that if I got a little too cocky or aggressive with my taper schedule, then I'd get flung right back down in to the pit. What was interesting is that as long as my body got the dose of medication that it was relatively accustomed to, then I felt just like my old self. But if I tapered too quickly, or god forbid missed a dose altogether, I was fit to be hospitalized. That's how powerful an influence that stuff had on me, and can have on many other people as well.
Again, assuming Klonopin is at least part of your problem, I put some recommendations below. This is of course based on my experience, maybe you will find it helpful. By the way, I think all this is highly relevant to TMS, because of the way your autonomic system gets revved up by suddenly stopping something that was artificially keeping it quiet. Emotional trauma, medications, all have powerful influence, and if you add them all up in the wrong way, at precisely the wrong time, then you're bound to suffer. And the mind starts to play the TMS tricks, possibly to bury it all. I'm very curious to learn more about the connection to TMS and autonomic overload from causes other than repressed emotional energy. It's a very interesting idea to explore further.
So anyway, some suggestions:
1. Find an open minded doc that can help you manage your way out this. Be clear that your goal is to be 100% benzo free. Ironically, you might consider resuming a small dose of Klonopin under supervision, and then taper, rather than go cold turkey as you did. Even after a week (which does seem like a short time I must say). I took it only 14 days, but over a month to taper off. And even that was FAST. To maintain your health it is important to keep the autonomic system at least partially on balance, while at the same time making steady reduction in the medication and giving time for your body to re-equilibrate the changes it has made to your system in its wake.
2. Build a support group of family and friends that can support you during this time.
3. Avoid alcohol like the plague. It works on the same receptors as the benzos, but in a much more broad spectrum way, and it can throw your autonomic system for a real loop. In fact, they give benzos to those suffering from alcohol withdrawal (which can be fatal by the way), for this exact reason. Your system is already off the rails and it will take some time to equilibrate, no need to compound things with additional knocks to the system.
4. Melatonin can really help with the sleep. Chamomile tea, peppermint, etc., only mildly helpful, but helpful. Avoid Kava, it can be dangerous for some people when combined with benzo and/or benzo withdrawal. I don't know about Trypophan. Avoid sleep meds that bear any similarity to benzodiazapine. This includes Ambien.
5. Exercise as much as you are able. It blows off adrenaline and will moderate the anxiety.
6. Minimize toxic emotional input, like horror movies, etc. Immerse yourself in things that do not provoke or stir anxiety. You are almost certainly hyper hyper sensitized to becoming anxious, and even the smallest irrelevant things can trigger it.
7. Remind yourself, again and again and again, THIS WILL GO AWAY!!!! It goes away! You will be 99.99% yourself again. You will. |
| pericakralj |
Posted - 09/07/2007 : 13:37:26
I had a felling of UNREAL for a long time a few years ago.Didnt know about TMS then.Did every test that can be done and nothing was wrong with me.Then i started psychotherapy and in a few moths all came back to normal.
YOU are paying too much attention on your symptomes,i know its hard but try to ignore them as much as posible.DO the things that you like,i find that in my case snowboarding cure every TMS like symptom.
TRY TO KEEP FOCUS ON EMOTIONS AND THINGS THAT BOTHER YOU,NOT TO THE PAIN.
|
| la_kevin |
Posted - 09/07/2007 : 12:39:51
Thanks for the post,
I quit it cold Turkey after about a week. The day after I quit it cold turkey, they switched me to Restoril(another Benzo). That night I had an electric zap so bad that I feel like it "damaged" a synapse, seriously.
I quit both cold turkey, but I was only on Klonopin for a week and the Restoril for a day. Maybe mixing them did something. I am taking good old Tryptophan now and it works great, no side effects.
But dealing with severe therapy, depression, overwhelming anxiety I never felt, dizziness, brain fog, oh yeah and a little pain, all I can say is that it's been a roller coaster ride week.
The symptoms you describe of "unreality" are perfect. It's like I'm a zombie or have been drugged permanently, I hope not. I hope this clears up. I used to be a fan of Benzos, but my body didn't like it this time.
Oh and yes, I've been on Benzos before when my TMS pain was at it's worst, many times in fact. Valium always felt "smoother". Klonopin NEVER did this to me before, it's like I got a bad batch or something.
My mental faculties seem to work, but I just feel like I'm looking at everything through a lens, and that gives me more anxiety.I hate feeling "unreal". Adding all that to my other symptoms I can't take it sometimes.
Thanks for the input though, all is appreciated.
And as far as struggle goes, I have no choice but to keep trying.
|
| AnthonEE |
Posted - 09/07/2007 : 11:36:29
There's something odd about Klonopin in my experience (as opposed to other benzos like Ativan, Valium, etc). I took it for 14 days at 0.5mg per night. For about a week I slept like a baby, and felt great in the morning. Then during the second week it wasn't helping anymore and a second doctor advised me to stop taking it (cold turkey). Turns out some people's body develop a dependence in as little as 1-2wks usage. So that night after missing one dose, around 2-3am, I thought I had stared right into the jaws of hell. The anxiety was so intense that I could not describe it properly to friends and family. And it had a very different quality to it, much more intense and "synthetic" or artificial if that makes any sense. The insomnia was intense, and accompanied by electric jolts if I did manage to doze off. I recall being grateful for an uninterrupted 2hrs of sleep one night. Autonomic nervous system was redlined for months afterward, and I even started to lose hair it was that bad. I have a photo of myself during that time and I looked like hell (worse than usual anyway!). The most disturbing part was this odd sense of the world around me being somehow "unreal" or like my conscious awareness of the world was slightly altered in some funny way. I wonder if this is what you describe as "fog". It feels like the world around you is sort of artificial. I think they call this symptom "derealization" and/or "depersonalization". I was unable to focus long enough to write a few coherent sentences, and my writing looked like I was in 2nd grade. I took 3mo off work. It was really terrifying.
Doctors were all across the board on this. Some were rather arrogant and thought I was a nut, and that I "needed" this medication. Never mind that I'd been solid as a rock for 38+ years prior, except for some expected sleep loss from life's occasional little challenges. So I finally found a doctor that was open minded to this as a cause of my symptoms. And a website (www.benzo.org.uk) which you should absolutely check out in detail. What worked for me was a VERY VERY gradual taper off the medication.
In one of your prior posts you asked if Klonopin can last the whole day. People metabolize it differently, but 12hr half life is typical. So what I did was break the 0.5mg into quarters, then take 3 parts before bed, and 1 part with breakfast. This smooths out the ride quite a bit. Then you taper ever so slowly down from there (under managed care from a good open minded doctor). Valium feels better (as you say) because the half life is measured in days rather than hours, so the concentration in your system is much less of a roller coaster ride. Many people, rather than ween off a difficult benzo like Klonopin, actually switch over to valium first, then ween off that.
It took me over a month to wean off, and another month or two afterward before I felt mostly back to myself again. The symptoms I had (which sound very much like what you have) gradually went away for short periods now and then. These periods of feeling normal gradually got longer and more frequent, until eventually I was mostly back to normal. It has been two years since, and I feel very much less emotionally robust than I used to be. But for the most part I'm fine, and was fine after a few months. But now I feel burdened with endless orthopedic problems that I am beginning to think are TMS, maybe stemming out of this autonomic overload ordeal that I've described (? still learning though)
If you are in fact struggling with Klonopin withdrawal, then you should really study the website I've given. And very very very important to remember at all times: IT GOES AWAY!!! As webdan65 always says, you are not broken! But it is terribly difficult, and takes time. Maybe this is part of your struggle, and if so then I hope I can help. |
| la_kevin |
Posted - 09/07/2007 : 10:49:43
Edited for privacy issue and personal info.
|
| AnthonEE |
Posted - 09/07/2007 : 08:13:00
LA_Kevin, If you don't mind my asking, how long had you been taking the 0.5mg Klonopin? and how quickly did you stop taking it? Do you have previous experience with benzos? Or is this Klonopin thing something recent for you? The reason I ask is because I had an absolutely terrifying experience with Klonopin two years ago, and many of the symptoms you describe sound WAY too familiar, especially the insomnia with electric shocks. And acute anxiety through the roof... Some people apparently don't have any trouble with this medication, while others like me have acute adverse reaction. For me, it was the worst, most terrifying experience in my whole life. And withdrawal from this medication precipitated a huge autonomic overload that lasted months. It took six months for my ears to stop ringing. As I learn more about TMS, it seems that the autonomic overload is at root of many problems, and maybe one can arrive at autonomic overload in more than one way. Benzo withdrawal may be one sure fire way to do it (at least for me). TMS symptoms sprouted like weeds over the last two years. It has only been since this episode in my life that I've had the classic chronic this, chronic that, issue after issue. Prior to that I was a model of physical health.
My question is focussed on the medication rather than the psychological/emotional work you are doing. This is not in any way intended to undercut the significance of those issues or the importance of that work. It's just that your symptoms do seem so similar in many ways to my previous experience, I'm just wondering if the benzo is playing a role here as well. So I'm very interested to find out what your experience is with benzos, esp Klonopin, and whether it could be a contributor to your difficulties (on top of or in conjunction with TMS). --AnthonEE |
| Penny |
Posted - 09/06/2007 : 19:55:42
I completely understand and respect your reasoning. A year ago I cried and cried and couldn't believe that there were any tears left in me and cried some more. Hang in there. Take each day as it comes and know and have faith that you can and will get better, LaKevin! Take care of you!
>|< Penny |
| la_kevin |
Posted - 09/06/2007 : 19:35:19
Edited for privacy issue and personal info.
|
| Penny |
Posted - 09/06/2007 : 17:41:27
LaKev,
I know you are trying not to post or visit here too often, but I've been thinking about you and what you are going thru a lot the past couple days. When I think of you, I remember all the physical challenges but I realized that we don't know much or anything about your situation ... other than sx. Are you working? Married? Have friends? New job? Kids? Perhaps they don't believe you? Just wondered what's going on. I guess I'm being nosy.
I continue to wish the best for you!
>|< Penny
"Feeling will get you closer to the truth of who you are than thinking."
~ Eckhart Tolle
|
| justme |
Posted - 09/05/2007 : 20:26:05
La_ Kevin-
I have some formal education in the area of counseling. Your symptoms bring to mind to me a phenomenon in a certain culture wherein the person actually dies from fright. Sounds like you are very aware of your overactive autonomic system, so I do not think you are in danger of dying yourself from fright. However, I would advise going slowly in your therapeutic regimen. Your body, soul, and mind can only process so much at a time. When they have had enough, they probably go into overload, signalling you to slow down.
Be kind to yourself. This is also an important skill for a TMS person to learn.
Just me
|
| la_kevin |
Posted - 09/02/2007 : 19:23:17
I'm a Shecter patient already. And I just started seeing one of his therapists. Thanks |
| westcoastram |
Posted - 09/02/2007 : 17:07:03
La Kev,
Granted, I'm coming late to the game on your symptoms but am I correct in assuming you're in LA. Have you thought of seeing Dr. Schecter or even better yet, see on of a number of very skilled psychologists who emphasize TMS that are in the area? I can recommend at least two.
WCR |
| FORU |
Posted - 09/02/2007 : 16:08:08
I'm just trying to show how far something can go if ignored. Deal with your "demons" now or pay the price is all I can say.
Well said! Thank you!
fka something else |
| mamaboulet |
Posted - 09/02/2007 : 08:08:18
Comparing pain seems silly, since everybody has different pain thresholds and pain perception, and duration of pain plays a part too (years vs weeks).
If the pain is bad enough, and chronic enough, to have a lasting negative effect on your quality of life, then it is bad pain. |
| la_kevin |
Posted - 09/02/2007 : 06:44:48
Edited for privacy issue and personal info.
|
| la_kevin |
Posted - 09/02/2007 : 06:16:07
Edited for privacy issue and personal info.
|
| OUCHTHE PAIN |
Posted - 09/01/2007 : 19:27:44
I'm in a minute by minute emotional panic and rage. All mixed into one entity.
I've turned into a friggin mess and I'm am desperately trying to get myself out. This is what TMS can becom.
La Kevin, I certainly don't have any answers for you, or I wouldn't be here. Your posts are making me sad for you, but also making me see in the big scheme of things, my puny back pain is nothing. I hope things will get better for you soon!
Being a newcomer, I don't know anything of your history....could the medication be doing strange things to your sleep? Or was your sleep disturbed before the medication?
Also, is it possible to OVER work the program? Does everything need to be analyzed? This question is not directed at you necessarily, just sort of wondering if there is such a thing as too much introspection?
I have a tendency to chain smoke too. Bad, VERY bad! I am quite sure it is doing damage to our bodies we haven't even imagined. Lets face it, it is a MAJOR oxegen depriving habit.
|
| Dave |
Posted - 09/01/2007 : 09:38:10
quote:
Originally posted by la_kevin
When I look into myself, I realize that I was always the "tough guy". Having no fear of any man or violent situation. But I realize I'm a scared child in many ways. I'm afraid of all of this. It's hard for me to admit I'm scared, but I am. I'm so scared of what's going on I'm in a minute by minute emotional panic and rage. All mixed into one entity.
I've turned into a friggin mess and I'm am desperately trying to get myself out. This is what TMS can becom.
Sounds like you are on the right track, until the last sentence which indicates frustration and lack of control.
The need to project a strong image is common in TMS-prone personalities. It is part of the perfectionist or goodist trait. You need others to see you a certain way, to gain their recognition, their approval, their praise, their support. If the image you project is at odds with who you think you are inside, it raises tremendous emotional conflict. It increases the rage because the child inside resents the fact that you put so much pressure on yourself to make sure that others see you a certain way. It can make you feel like a phony because deep down you are afraid to show people who you really are.
There's nothing you can do to change this overnight, nor do you need to change to get relief from symptoms. You just need to recognize this imbalance and explore it the best you can to see where it originates. One possibility is that you seek to gain from others what you failed to receive from your parents.
This is the type of thing that can be explored with a TMS-trained therapist who can help you uncover these sources of rage and bring them out in the open, to thwart the brain's strategy of trying to keep them from being experienced. |
| la_kevin |
Posted - 09/01/2007 : 05:18:17
When I look into myself, I realize that I was always the "tough guy". Having no fear of any man or violent situation. But I realize I'm a scared child in many ways. I'm afraid of all of this. It's hard for me to admit I'm scared, but I am. I'm so scared of what's going on I'm in a minute by minute emotional panic and rage. All mixed into one entity.
I've turned into a friggin mess and I'm am desperately trying to get myself out. This is what TMS can becom. |
| la_kevin |
Posted - 09/01/2007 : 05:08:02
Edited for privacy issue and personal info.
|
|
|
