| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Shary |
Posted - 06/22/2007 : 09:49:44
Best of luck to all of you in your quest to defeat TMS. Whatever you do, I hope it works for you. |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| art |
Posted - 06/28/2007 : 10:47:52
I've admitted more than once to having made mistakes on this forum. I'm not about to go back and dig 'em all up, but I've apologized a bunch of times for various transgressions, inculuding a couple of "I'm sorry's" to TT himself...
Possibly my biggest mistake was taking you on..
I've never denied TT was a help to many people around here. He was also from time to time an impediment.
|
| h2oskier25 |
Posted - 06/28/2007 : 08:46:32
quote:
Originally posted by art
To hear TT tell it, he had no problems and was always, always, always right.
That's funny, Art. When was the last time YOU weren't right?
You can't deny that TT helped out a lot of people new to this board and unclear how to apply TMS theroy, sort of the way Dave and Stryder do a lot.
|
| weatherman |
Posted - 06/28/2007 : 08:43:35
quote:
Originally posted by art
I don't think anyone denies TT had a great sense of humor and a quick wit. The important question it seems to me is why was he perpetually at war with so many forum members.
It seems lots of the disputes had some root in political views, where the differences somehow got taken as personal attacks. And TT was certainly way to the right of most people on this board. The whole TMS theory would fall into the "alternative" medicine category in the eyes of most conventional docs, and for whatever reason the people receptive to such ideas tend to be more liberal politically than those who aren't. I've known some rolfers, acupuncturists etc., and most of them were not John Birchers - though owning a business will definitely make one think about money more than before.
Weatherman
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement. |
| art |
Posted - 06/28/2007 : 07:25:20
I don't think anyone denies TT had a great sense of humor and a quick wit. The important question it seems to me is why was he perpetually at war with so many forum members. |
| weatherman |
Posted - 06/27/2007 : 21:27:49
I have to stick up for TT also.. I found lots of his posts on TMS enlightening, and appreciated his sense of humor. I can't agree with the charge that he "had it all figured out", as he had many posts describing his quandry with his hip - I'm sure that's a stressful deal for someone who lives to play tennis.
Also enjoyed the political debates - partly because the cable channels have absolutley RUINED the evening news shows by covering Paris Hilton, prison life,etc. instead of real news. So I guess at times I've gotten my fix here. Even if TT was often to the right of Ann Coulter, he was always thought-provoking and entertaining. I'm sure political views are often a product of where you live, and what you have to put up with. I'm fortunate to be in the middle of nowhere, and people generally take a live and let live approach here. My biggest worry walking at night is surprising a moose. But if I lived in a big city like TT (San Francisco?) and had to deal with panhandlers, break-ins etc., and avoid certain areas, my libertarian outlook would certainly be tested.
Weatherman
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement. |
| Penny |
Posted - 06/27/2007 : 19:31:30
quote:
Originally posted by Dave
I'm sure there were many people who didn't like TT's posts and simply did not read them, as opposed to the few who felt legitimately hurt and were compelled to fuel the fire with inflammatory responses, ultimately driving him away. Some might view this as a victory. I see it differently.
Ironically, it appeared that TT left in response to my probing and challenging him (although I think it was brewing for a while). This was the first time I ever "got in the ring" with him. I say ironically, b/c it was not at ALL on my conscious mind to say anything that would inspire him to leave. For the first several days I felt terrible guilt and was very angry with TT about his leaving. He tried to make it look like I was the one responsible, in essence displacing his decision on me, just like the times he took credit for many other people leaving.
I am grateful to TT. Through our last exchange, he gave me an archive-preserved example of a pattern of self blame I replicate over and over in my life. I constantly take ownership for other people's actions and impressions, and his leaving was NOT my intent or choice ... it was his.
TT has most always been helpful to me. He, like everyone else who chooses to leave, made a decision to not keep smacking himself on the head. I don't know TennisTom personally, but I'm guessing this was a big step for him, and probably very challenging and unsettling.
>|< Penny
"Oz never did give nothing to the Tinman that he didn't already have."
song lyric, America |
| skizzik |
Posted - 06/27/2007 : 17:17:22
TT must've found a new board or outlet. They say you can't stop habits, only replace them. |
| art |
Posted - 06/27/2007 : 15:03:23
I can only talk about when I was around. My main point anyway, is that in all those innumerable discussions, debates, arguments, whatever you want to call them, TT was simply never wrong. Wouldn't even acknowledge the possibility. I've never seen a man expend so much energy in pursuit of being right. For one very good example, it wasn't his fault he had a running battle with what seemed half the forum at times, it was mine for, as I understand it, wrongly accusing him of being unkind to newcomers, thus inciting forum-wide antipathy toward him.
Also, I might be wrong as I'm not an expert in TT and his TMS, but I'm pretty sure I recall him saying that his hip was chronic and probably not TMS. Which is fine. Who cares? JUst find it interesting.
|
| Dave |
Posted - 06/27/2007 : 12:33:39
quote:
Originally posted by art
To hear TT tell it, he had no problems and was always, always, always right.
If you read the archives, including the old forum, you'll find this is not true. In fact, he almost died from an overdose of NSAIDs trying to curtail his pain. If TT became more assured and confident as time went on, it is possibly because he had success fighting his TMS. |
| art |
Posted - 06/27/2007 : 11:49:32
I'm not sure many here think of it as a "victory." I sincerely regret that TT thinks somehow I'm responsible for turning the board against him.
Beth, don't see how you could possibly miss that TT viewed himself as resident expert though...He said over and over that he was a board stalwart with much expertise in the subject. He definitely saw himself in that role. Which is fine, if that's how he liked to think of himself of course. It is interesting to me though, that you missed this. And Anne's right, He never once asked for any help himself. Not once in the couple of years I've been aorund...More than once, he said he didn't even have TMS, although when it came to his depression, the one thing he did seem to talk about, I think he believed that might have been an equivalent.
To hear TT tell it, he had no problems and was always, always, always right.
TT threatened to leave a bunch of times. Wheh I was involved in the discussion, I always made it clear I wanted him to stay. TT I believe needed this forum much more than he admitted. I had a feeling things were coming to a bit of a head when he began dedicating entire threads to defending himself. Something struck me as a tad off about that. |
| h2oskier25 |
Posted - 06/27/2007 : 10:12:26
quote:
Originally posted by Dave
I'm sure there were many people who didn't like TT's posts and simply did not read them, as opposed to the few who felt legitimately hurt and were compelled to fuel the fire with inflammatory responses, ultimately driving him away. Some might view this as a victory. I see it differently.
Exactly, and those who DID drive him away are guilty of exactly what they most commonly accused him of.
Not only did TT contribute to the knowledge of people looking for help applying Sarno techniques, he never hesitated to thank Dave for his contributions and commitment to this board.
Shane, . . . . come back Shane . . .  |
| Dave |
Posted - 06/27/2007 : 08:31:03
Anytime the forum loses a member who has made positive contributions it is a shame.
This forum has never been meant as a "happy place" where people can get together and have friendly discussions and never offend anyone.
There have always been heated discussions. As with any group there will always be dissenting opinions and some who are offended by others. Inevitably some of these discussions escalate into personal attacks, and sometimes, people leave the forum because of it.
I've said it many times before: if you are offended by something you read on this forum, posted by a stranger who you don't really know, then look within yourself to see why it is affecting you so deeply. Conscious anger can be a smokescreen for deeper repressed emotions.
I'm sure there were many people who didn't like TT's posts and simply did not read them, as opposed to the few who felt legitimately hurt and were compelled to fuel the fire with inflammatory responses, ultimately driving him away. Some might view this as a victory. I see it differently.
|
| h2oskier25 |
Posted - 06/27/2007 : 07:50:30
Anne,
RE: TT, I respect your opinion, but don't see HOW you can say he was a self proclaimed expert or in denial of his own problems.
He always talked about the troubles he'd been through, so I don't see what you mean. I never got that he thought he was an expert at anything but possibly tennis.
I think he is extremely intelligent, with an extremely sharp, dry sense of humor, and a lot of people took that the wrong way.
 He made the board fun. I know lot's of people out there agree with me, but few have the balls to say it.
I totally agree with you about ShawnSmith, though. So glad he's gone. |
| miehnesor |
Posted - 06/25/2007 : 21:14:10
Penny- Sounds like you are pretty overloaded and may not have time for reading the latest interesting book. I would strongly recommend buying the tapes however since you can listen to them while in the car. Bradshaw has terrific insight. You should be able to get them on the site www.creativegrowth.com
Good luck with it and your work in therapy.
|
| Scottydog |
Posted - 06/25/2007 : 20:26:23
Hoskier said :quote:
Tennis Tom, however, DID NOT. He quitely said goodbye in somebody else's post. And, Ironically, it is he that is the most missed.
I am overjoyed that TT has left - we are back on course with insightful quotes from people dealing with their TMS - not bombarded with repeated posts by a self proclaimed "expert" who was in denial of his own problems ( and I put Shawnsmith in the same boat)
Oh, and his leaving was far from quiet, typical.
Anne
I just wanted to balance some of the (very limited) praise and will not reply to discussions on the merits, or lack of, of these former posters. |
| Penny |
Posted - 06/25/2007 : 19:07:16
quote:
Originally posted by miehnesor
My therapist really just functions as a witness. I need that witness to experience all of these feelings.
Wow ... thanks so much for sharing your experience, Miehnesor! The fact that you need a witness to your feelings ... welll ... I relate to this so much, and it feels so good to know you feel this way too. Sometimes I feel like I need to tip my therapist (or apologize to him, but I know better) b/c I feel like I must bore him with my emotional outpouring. A lot of the vulnerability I show in therapy I have never let appear within myself, let alone escape and with a witness. Somehow it makes it more real, I guess b/c he shows a little sympathy. There is something very powerful about having a witness.
Thanks also for the book/tape references. I've seen you talk about Bradshaw and shame books before and I am going to get them soon. I have so many books in my life right now, it's difficult to determine which will help me the most. Right now I'm trying to figure out what to do in my marriage. I am at the phase in therapy where I'm trying to come to terms with the fact that I have recreating in my marriage a lot of my parent's relationship. This is very hard to admit. Bluntly, it sucks, especially after 12 years of denial and believeing everything is rosey! BUT on the flip side, my physical pain has diminished. Sometimes in therapy it will try to pop out and distract me from what I am saying, which has been helpful to affirm even more the psychological creation of my pain.
I digress (or streamed of conscious  ). Anyway, thanks again for sharing. It really helps me to hear about people's therapy experiences.
>|< Penny |
| miehnesor |
Posted - 06/25/2007 : 16:15:32
Penny- I use visualization in therapy to access the feelings of the IC.
With the lights turned down and a noisemaker on to dull outside noises I start by closing my eye's with deep breathing for several minutes to try and relax and shut down my consious mind. Then I start a visualization where I grab my brief case with fear, rage, and sadness in big letters and I go down a spiral staircase and through a door to go to my inner child. I do this very slowely and imagine the visual and audio experience. When I get to my inner child I just start a dialog with him and I validate the emotions that I know are in there. The key is to show the child that he is loved by me and that I am there for him and that it is now safe for him to have his feelings. Since I know that I have repressed rage wrt mom I validate that rage and tell him that he has a right to feel it and express it. Usually it doesn't take too long before I start to experience the body sensations of fear. The typical manifestation is an increased heart rate and some tightness in the chest. I keep talking and validating until I sense that the fear response has climaxed. Then I slide off the couch and start screaming and pounding out my repressed rage for about 5-10 seconds of so until i've had enough. After that I just feel pure sadness and grief - no fear or anger. My therapist really just functions as a witness. I need that witness to experience all of these feelings.
Now I know that this probably seems pretty extreme but it is the only way i've been able to reduce the fear of my own anger- is to have it and realize that i'm going to survive it.
The good news as of late is that i'm finding the fear has lessened and is harder to recreate and when I can create it it is not as intense. I think i'm having some success at working through this iceberg of rage inside of me. What is very encouraging is that my symptoms, which have been creeping lower for years, have taken a nice step down with the split that is going on with my folks in the present. I'm realizing that my IC was one smart little kid. That he hid his feelings for a very good reason.
There is a lot of good material on IC work. I like Bradshaw's stuff a lot. I've been to two of his workshops and I have three of his casette booklets. My favorite is "Finishing your business with mother". I listen to them on my comute to therapy and they really have a way of breaking through to the feelings. The nice thing is the cassettes are cheap and you can replay them anytime you want. He has several great books like Homecoming and Healing the shame that binds you. Another great book on the IC is "Healing your aloneness" by Chopich and Paul.
I see some similarities in family dynamics to your situation having a narcissistic father and possibly mother as well. You may get a lot out of those books on narcissism that I recommended.
Hope this helps. |
| Penny |
Posted - 06/25/2007 : 14:35:55
quote:
Originally posted by miehnesor
For me i've persued the repressed feelings using inner child work because the treatment program didn't really work for me. This is because I had very deep seaded issues that required in depth exploration.
Hi Miehnesor,
I think you and I have talked about IC work in the past, but would you mind sharing exactly what types of things--other than journaling--that you have done to get to your IC? For me, I often challenge my seemingly steady emotions (especially if TMS is active) and try to accept that anything non-indulgent or self-revolving is probably ticking my IC off, even though emotionally I am calm. I use the bigger piece of cake often as an example: e.g. giving it to someone else probably ticks me off, although consciously I am very giving to others.
Just wondered if you have any other tools or suggestions you might be able to share. Books?
Thanks,
>|< Penny
"Oz never did give nothing to the Tinman that he didn't already have."
song lyric, America |
| stanfr |
Posted - 06/25/2007 : 14:30:00
quote:
TMS is emotionally induced pain. It is harmless. It can be eliminated by knowledge. It is very difficult for everyone to do this, but it has been and can be done.
TMS isn't harmless to those who are unaware of its basis, and who have surgery or commit suicide. Heart disease, cancer etc aren't either and these are also emotionally affected, as made clear in TDM. So, while i agree that getting hung up on the commentary could be counterproductive, on the other hand i question what the basics really are, and quite frankly i don't think it's crystal clear just what they are.
miehnesor: we are agreed. We may be the rule rather than the exception, though! |
| miehnesor |
Posted - 06/25/2007 : 14:25:51
In Dr Sarno's latest book "The Divided Mind" he has changed the wording regarding repressed feelings saying that in general they don't come out but sometimes they do which he calls the exception. This forum shows numerous examples of folks getting to their repressed feelings and finding relief. Also in TDM there is an expanded psychology section that gives examples of people getting better in therapy and getting in touch with their feelings.
Repressed emotions throws the immune system out of whack causing all sorts of bizarre manifestations. Some may be distracting. Some not. I don't see why all the various manifestation of repressed feelings having to function as a distraction.
Actually I haven't really followed Dr. Sarno's treatment program to a T. For me i've persued the repressed feelings using inner child work because the treatment program didn't really work for me. This is because I had very deep seaded issues that required in depth exploration. I am the exception TMS case.
Additionally I think we agree that the important thing is to get on with the work. |
|
|
