| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| karenthepas |
Posted - 05/07/2007 : 15:39:20
Hi everyone,
I'm new to this forum and fairly new to the idea of TMS. Have had ongoing lower back and L leg/buttock pain since Sept/06. Have recently read "Healing Back Pain" by Dr Sarno and could possibly be a candidate for TMS, I think. Was told in Nov 06 I have 2 bulging discs causing my lower back pain but in Jan of this year the pain appeared in my L upper leg/buttock area also. Have done all the usual stuff, 2 chiropractors, massage therapist, 2 physiotherapists and have been using the "Rebuild Your Back" exercises suggested by Dean Moyer on RYB.com for about 4 months now. Not getting much worse but seem to be unable to make this ongoing leg pain go away whatever I do. I swim 4 times/week but seem to be unable to go back to my original exercise routine of treadmill and aerobic exercises without making the leg pain worse. Some days are good and some are really bad, not enough to incapacitate me but enough to depress me totally !! I've always been a fit, healthy person and can't understand why I'm just not getting any better.
After reading Dr Sarno's book, I must say I don't seem to have any deep down reasons for anger or problems in my past but I am a perfectionist and always want to do things the absolute right way.
Does this make me TMS sufferer ? How do I know ? And if I am how do I proceed ? I'm not sure HBP makes it that clear ?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated,
Thanks-Karen |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 05/18/2007 : 09:43:01
quote:
Originally posted by karenthepas
Sorry if I started a war between you there, am very appreciative of all your inputs, its great to get several different points of view.
Give it no thought, KTP, the real world outside the ivory tower and gated communities is full of real hand to hand conflict, the origin of our TMS. Why shouldn't the board reflect on occassion the real world outside our computers.
Although the board's nominal purpose is to disseminate and clarify TMS info, and let's not forget support, why shouldn't it reflect on occasion reality.
Message boards are a good place to practice conflict management, not to mention hurling insults at people we don't think we will ever have to see face to face.
Cheers,
tt
Some of my favorite excerpts from " THE DIVIDED MIND " :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
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| Shary |
Posted - 05/18/2007 : 09:34:39
I too am appreciative of anything informative posted on this board, even if it's redundant. I never know when something is going to jump out at me that I may have missed on a previous thread. So thanks for your efforts, Shawn.
Karen, one of the weird quirks of TMS is that it doesn't give up easily. I've gotten reactions all over my body. It seems that just as the pain would let up in my hip, it would start in the other hip. Or I would get GI upsets, or itchy skin, or achy knees, etc. I've even had my scalp hurt! On a bad day I've had four or five different aggravations going on at the same time.
Lack of recovery through doctors and other modalities is probably the biggest clue that you're dealing with TMS. You should stay the course by thinking psychological rather than physical and continue journaling, particularly if you are improving overall. There probably will be downturns at times. I don't recommend planning for them, but try not to get upset when they happen. It's just part of it.
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| karenthepas |
Posted - 05/18/2007 : 08:53:27
Hi guys,
Sorry if I started a war between you there, am very appreciative of all your inputs, its great to get several different points of view. My next question is about other symptoms of TMS. Have been having success with my "sciatica pain" up to now, have been coming here and journalling for 1-2 weeks now and leg pain is disappearing, so great. Have now started with abdominal cramps/bloating as well as sore gums/mouth ulcer as well as cold sore infection. Normally, I would just think this was just a bad week but it seems to me that perhaps they may be TMS symptoms too. Or am I just imagining it ? They all seem to be stress/tension related illnesses. Anyone else suffer with similar things ? |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 05/17/2007 : 22:22:38
It's O.K. Shawn, I still love ya'. Let it all hang out.
Some of my favorite excerpts from " THE DIVIDED MIND " :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
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| armchairlinguist |
Posted - 05/17/2007 : 18:36:01
Don't be surprised then if some people find your belaboring annoying. It is just part of our personality structures. 
--
Wherever you go, there you are. |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 05/17/2007 : 07:52:59
And I always stated that indeed some may actually expereince some feeling in their times of introspection, but I am merely adding, from my subjective understanding of my reading of Sarno and Selridge, that experiencing certain feelings is not necessary for recovery. Each one of us on this board will follow a different path which is suited to their needs- that is only natural - and I would be the last one to rain on someonle else's success. If it works for you then it is a success and no need defend your position. And absolutley no hard feelings on my part.
Yes, I have some narcisstic need to be right- mostly do to low self esteem issues which manifest as loathing criticism- so don't be suprised if I belabor an issue. This is just part of my personality structure.
*************
Sarno-ize it!
************* |
| sonora sky |
Posted - 05/17/2007 : 07:42:46
quote:
Originally posted by shawnsmith
What are you really angry at sonora sky?
How did I know you were going to pull that card? This is a tactic used to distract from the issue at hand.
quote:
Originally posted by shawnsmith
If the assertion keeps being posted over and over again (in fact hundreds of times) that one must feel something in order to recover from TMS, then I have just as much right to respond to this erroneous assertion and say no it is not necessary to feel anything.
Sure, if your statement was true, I'd see no problem in your continual reminders. However, no one is making assertions that "one must feel something in order to recover from TMS." We are simply exploring the possiblility that feeling emotions may be helpful to some. I think you must have forgotten to ask yourself, "is this statement true?" before posting. No worries. Katie will let you slide from time to time.
ss
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| shawnsmith |
Posted - 05/16/2007 : 11:12:48
What are you really angry at sonora sky? If the assertion keeps being posted over and over again (in fact hundreds of times) that one must feel something in order to recover from TMS, then I have just as much right to respond to this erroneous assertion and say no it is not necessary to feel anything.
*************
Sarno-ize it!
************* |
| sonora sky |
Posted - 05/16/2007 : 08:56:45
URGH, the point is, WE GET IT, Shawn. You don't need to keep repeating yourself. (We're very bright folks, you know.) I understand what you're saying, and I understand that what Sarno has said confirms what you're saying. I get it, and everyone else on this board, by now, gets it. There is no need to keep inserting the same thing into various threads, as if to keep us "on track" with the program. I appreciate your desire to help, but, to me, it feels like we're being policed.
Three cheers for ACL's post. We are listening to you, shawn, but are you listening to us? Some with TMS have the need to move beyond analytical psychological introspection (e.g. my parent abused me as a kid; I wonder if I could have some repressed anger about that...??) to psychological and emotional healing, which may involve (gasp!) feeling one's emotions. We are not droids. We take in both liquids and soild foods, we think, and we feel! It is a natural part of who we are. Emotions make up the basest level of our psyche; they are the fundamental building blocks of our mind and they dictate how we react to external as well as internal stimuli (our own thoughts). We go through most of our lives in varying states of emotional numbness, trying cover up or push aside our emotional responses because they are deemed not culturally/socially appropriate. Supression (active) and repression (unconscious) of emotions is what causes TMS. If we stop blocking our emotions and running away from our fears--experience them, feel them instead of covering them up (name your poison), pushing them away, or otherwise not letting them arise and pass in due course as they naturally would--we can break the TMS cycle.
Consider this an official acknowledgement of the following statement: "One does not necessarily need to feel emotions to recover from TMS." My god, YES. (Will someone find a gold seal or drum up a stone tablet?) But some, nonetheless, want more in their recovery, to recover from pains physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual--to heal their whole selves. In my understanding, people are welcome to explore these aspects of TMS healing on this forum.
ss |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 05/16/2007 : 07:06:32
quote:
Originally posted by armchairlinguist
Shawn, I'm getting a little tired of you popping into various threads continually saying that one doesn't have to feel the emotions in order to recover.
Thanks for your feedback. There is nowhere in Sarno's work where he clearly states one has to feel the offending emotions is order to bring about recovery, except for rare cases- as with the case of Helen who had the emotional explosion. Dr. Sarno's admonition, however, is to think pyscholigically - to look inwardly- thus drawing attention away from the physical symptoms and unto the emotional. But there is no need to actually feel anytyhing. You might think that your feeling something brought about your recovery when in fact it was drawing your attention away from the physical which was the source of your recovery and not the feeling per se. Dr. Sarno is quite explicit about this in his video tape, and Dr. Nancy Selridge, wrote wrote a TMS book forwarded by Dr. Sarno, wrote the exact same thing as I have stated above.
Instead of diecting your frustrations at me you may want to inwardly explore what you are really upset about, as I am not about to change my mind anytime soon. You thought seems to be "Shawn should not popping into various threads continually saying that one doesn't have to feel the emotions in order to recover." But what is the reality of it? The reality is Shawn popping into various threads and continually saying that one doesn't have to feel the emotions in order to recover. So the source of your aggravation is your thoughts about me, it has nothing to do with me at all, but your opposition to the reality that I am making such posts. My path, my fellow TMSer, is not your path, nor is your path mine. We all come to this board with our own subjective understanding and experiences, and I can only reflect what I see and read to the best of my ability.
It is my contention that the personal demand placed on oneself to feel something in order to bring about a recovery is unreasonable and is a manifestation of a perfectionist personality trait.
*************
Sarno-ize it!
************* |
| armchairlinguist |
Posted - 05/16/2007 : 00:46:25
Shawn, I'm getting a little tired of you popping into various threads continually saying that one doesn't have to feel the emotions in order to recover.
It's absolutely true -- I recovered physically before ever contacting much in the way of repressed emotion, though I had journaled on the standard suspects and gone back through some of the suppressed and conscious emotions.
But it seems from my experience over the past year that many people on this board are in the percentage of people who do need therapy or further exploration of emotions to complete recovery. Furthermore, even those of us who don't need to may find it helpful to move beyond physical recovery into emotional recovery.
Finally, while I totally believe it is true that it's not necessary for many people to feel any of the repressed feelings, I don't think it's as difficult as Sarno believes. He is a physical professional, not a therapist, so this is not his expertise. As a result, and to emphasize the basic and essential parts of the theory for recovery, he tends to stay out of this area. But many therapists believe it is both possible and healthy to contact some of our repressed emotion. I don't know that anyone ever finds all of it, but some of it is certainly accessible to many people, and dealing with it and processing it can have very positive results.
So I don't think your constant emphasis that it's not necessary is all that helpful in many cases. Some people do need that message, but others already understand it and are trying to go beyond it to other things that may be helpful and important.
--
Wherever you go, there you are. |
| Penny |
Posted - 05/15/2007 : 19:05:31
quote:
Originally posted by sonora sky
p.s. Shawnsmith, where do you get this 'feeling emotions is not necessary,' 'it's a myth' thing? Could you site Sarno? Why would Sarno increasingly advocate therapy for his patients if this was not a factor? I'm sure some people can be cured by simply the "knowledge penecillin," but it certainly does not seem like the majority on this board (hence, one of the main uses of the board).
Hi Sonora!
I've been looking thru TDM and can't find this specifically, but throughout the treatment section Sarno talks about the unconscious and how we cannot know what is going on in there.
Here is a direct quote p 139
"I emphasize that it serves little purpose to concentrate solely on the rage itself, since except under extremely unusual circumstances it will not be expressed consciously."
Sarno also says that therapy in his clinic is typically only necessary for about 20% of his patients ... others recover without therapy. I think what Shawn was getting at is that we may never know what emotions or emotional deprivations are leading to our TMS sx, so it's not necessary to connect them with sx to get well. We do however need to do the other work that uncovers patterns of repression of negative emotions.
Karen, Check out page 144 in TDM... it talks about personality traits. Yes, being a perfectionist is a reason great enough for TMS.
Hope this helps,
>|< Penny
"Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain."
The Great and Powerful Oz |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 05/15/2007 : 17:51:26
TMS Questionnaire...Do I have it?
http://www.mindbodymedicine.com/q.html
*************
Sarno-ize it!
************* |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 05/14/2007 : 20:07:14
It is unnecessary to feel the emotions in order to bring about a recovery. The goal is to think psychologially and guess, as it were, what you think might be the source of your internal rage. The goal is to focus inwardly and not draw our attention away from the pain symtpoms. Thus the advice of Dr. Sarno to think psycholigcally Nancy Selride goes into this in more detail and I recommend her TMS book which Dr. sarno endorses.
Setting ourselves a standard that we MUST "feel the emotion in order to recover" is, for the most part, an impossible one and we doom ourselves to a cycle of defeat. The thought or belief is "I must feel something before I recover" and when you don't feel anything it is not a suprise you don't recover. The healing is not found in the "seek and ye shall find," but "seek and ye shall recover." That is, draw your attention away from the pain and focus inwardly on what you think may be the source of your rage etc. Don't worry if you can feel anything because you most likely won't.
I hope this helps.
*************
Sarno-ize it!
************* |
| sonora sky |
Posted - 05/14/2007 : 18:51:19
quote:
Originally posted by karenthepas
I have some stuff in my childhhod, the unexpected death of my father when I was 16 for instance, but I feel as though that has been dealt with and is not something I think about routinely. Sure, it makes me sad but ?angry.
Karen
I thought the same thing. My father died when I was 10. I felt that I grieved at the time and I was FINE thereafter. Since then, I have returned to that time and grieved, as an adult. I figured, that should do it, right? But it's really a constant presence in your life, even if you don't think about it every day. It affects how you think and act, and what emotions arise. With each different situation or stage of life that you encouter, it will be a factor, even if it is so subtle that you don't even notice it. I think that's how all experiences shape our life, big and small.
And anger? Um, yeah! How could he--how dare he--die on you, and abandon you at such a pivotal age in your life? It's his job to BE THERE for you. And he hasn't 'been there' since--(speculating here, but you get the idea)--not for your prom, your graduation(s), your wedding, or any of the significant milestones in your life. (I know this thinking doesn't sound "rational" (his death was beyond anyone's control), but it's your inner child protesting injustices of life as she sees it.) Dig down deeper and you'll find it.
best,
ss
p.s. Shawnsmith, where do you get this 'feeling emotions is not necessary,' 'it's a myth' thing? Could you site Sarno? Why would Sarno increasingly advocate therapy for his patients if this was not a factor? I'm sure some people can be cured by simply the "knowledge penecillin," but it certainly does not seem like the majority on this board (hence, one of the main uses of the board). |
| karenthepas |
Posted - 05/14/2007 : 14:58:32
Not sure I understand what you mean-shawnsmith. I don't have to find some hidden emotion/repressed rage to make my symptoms go away ? I thought that was the idea of journalling. My leg pain has faded this week since I found this site and started to journal but it often does that anyway, fades and then comes back, a week or so later. I have some stuff in my childhhod, the unexpected death of my father when I was 16 for instance, but I feel as though that has been dealt with and is not something I think about routinely. Sure, it makes me sad but ?angry.
Karen |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 05/12/2007 : 10:42:27
Feeling the emotions that are the source of your TMS is NOT necessary for recovery. It is a bogus assumption that you have to.
*************
Sarno-ize it!
************* |
| jst |
Posted - 05/12/2007 : 08:18:14
Keep in mind though that it it can take a long time, and a lot of self-questioning, before you sufficiently acknowledge and eventually resolve the repressed emotions. You just have to keep asking yourself, every MOMENT that you feel pain or other TMS equivalents, that question of what you might be respressing, of what emotions these symtomps might be designed to distract you from. |
| jst |
Posted - 05/12/2007 : 08:15:49
Karen, I strongly believe that as much as you face, acknowledge, and allow yourself to feel what emotions you might be afraid to feel, your pain will go away. Every time you feel the symptoms, just ask yourself what emotions, feelings, or thoughts these symptoms might be trying to distract you from.
As you acknowledge the feelings, you will start to come to peace with yourself and the pain will fade into nothingness, leaving only your healthy body behind |
| karenthepas |
Posted - 05/12/2007 : 08:06:51
Thanks for the replys guys, have downloaded the lists/journals and have begun. Will see where this leads me. Even if it doesn't help my leg pain, don't think I will be doing myself any harm by puting my thoughts down on paper. May even be useful for other stuff.
Karen |
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