| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| art |
Posted - 12/11/2006 : 17:12:39
I think about this one a lot. I accepted a long time ago that in order to recover from chronic illness we must radically change how we relate to the world. After all, we can't expect to get well while we're engaging in the same old self defeating, negative thought processes that made us sick in the first place.
So for example, for me, a key part of getting better has involved making a concerted effort to stop worrying so much. I've made lots of progress, but mostly it's a matter of taking evasive actions. In other words, developing ways to cut off the worry as soon as it starts. The primary impulse to worry however, remains...It feels like such an ingrained part of who I am, that it's hard to imagine that one day I might become, with regards to worry anyway, a different person..
JUst to put things in more concrete terms, let's say I'm on a run...half way through the run I have knee pain...Despite the fact that I'm 100 percent better at being able to talk myself out of the worry and fear that such pain always elicits, at leats initially, I've made almost no progress at all in being able to short circuit the fear response itself...I can deal with it once it arises, but I can't seem to find a way to cut if off at its source...
I'm wondering what some of you guys think...Is it possible to take it to the next level? Have any of you done so...? |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Singer_Artist |
Posted - 12/15/2006 : 07:46:51
Thanx ACL,
You are very kind! In some ways I am doing much better, thank God, but in other ways I am stressed to the max and still struggling..Lots of issues to deal with, and big time conflicts over what to do regarding my dogs, my boyfriend's allergies to them, etc. etc. Financial stress, life pressures, HUGE decisions, relationship stress, you name it..It is great to be singing again, even though only part time..It is also great to see family/friends i haven't seen in 3 years..But I am in NYC and it's tough to get to NJ where most of my people are, so i am dealing w/ feelings of isolation when my b/f and i aren't doing gigs together..(he is also a photographer and coaches ice hockey..I spend alot of time alone and have had all kinds of physical manifestions in my body from the stress and the TMS..I suppose i am handling it differently now..Interestingly, when i am on stage singing the pain is minimal! Fascinating!
Perhaps you are also sensing a deeper inner change that is going on inside me..It's a strengthening I cannot really explain in words..(but i do feel it..)And i am sure part of it is from my spiritual connection to God..Again, thanx for saying hello..Always love to hear from you! You have wonderful energy palpable through cyberspace my friend!
Hugs and blessings,
Karen |
| armchairlinguist |
Posted - 12/14/2006 : 17:28:05
Karen, sounds like you're doing really well these days! So glad to hear it.
--
Wherever you go, there you are. |
| miehnesor |
Posted - 12/14/2006 : 16:33:30
Art-Oops looks like I misread your comments and the worry comes AFTER the pain starts. Sorry about that.
I can relate to your example as I have had the same sort of thing happen to me on a run. I just run through the pain and it usually goes away. However i'ved noticed that this doesn't happen any more when I run because i'ved worked through a lot of the feelings causing the pain.
I guess what i'm saying is perhaps it would be more beneficial to focus on what is causing the pain in the first place- of course that is more easily said then done. |
| Singer_Artist |
Posted - 12/14/2006 : 16:14:21
Hiya Art,
Sorry I haven't written yet, been going nutsy koo koo (is that a word, lol?) Anyway, I just wanted to share with you that lately whenever I do something that could have physically irritated my neck, knee or back..I immediately start affiming that my body heals VERY FAST and that this pain, or whatever symptom is just temporary and may even be a TMS conditioned response..It seems to be working..In the past the same 'incident' or less would have illicited far worse symptoms..So in this way, alot of what we feel really is in our head..well our subconscious according to Dr. S. Hope you are doing well! And, btw..I rarely ever say the word 'secular' so I don't think i ever referred to you in that way.. Talk to you soon!
Hugs,
Karen |
| armchairlinguist |
Posted - 12/14/2006 : 11:03:13
I've read in a few articles that meditation can also effect very positive changes in the brain -- changes in measured brain waves that indicate a "calmer" mind state. So there are a lot of things that can change the brain, I guess.
--
Wherever you go, there you are. |
| miehnesor |
Posted - 12/14/2006 : 10:45:24
quote:
Originally posted by art
JUst to put things in more concrete terms, let's say I'm on a run...half way through the run I have knee pain...Despite the fact that I'm 100 percent better at being able to talk myself out of the worry and fear that such pain always elicits, at leats initially, I've made almost no progress at all in being able to short circuit the fear response itself...I can deal with it once it arises, but I can't seem to find a way to cut if off at its source...
Art- If this example is what actually happens to you then the worry preceeds the TMS symptom. If that is true then I suspect that accurate thinking rather then positive thinking is the best approach to dealing with the worry. My cousin case comes to mind. She also had debilitating knee pain when running. She was able to banish the pain by thinking about how angry she was at a primary source figure and even feeling about it. This was effective in banishing the symptom immediately.
I can tell you from my experience that positive experience was a complete waste of time for me. Accurate thinking and feeling my true early in life feelings was key. |
| art |
Posted - 12/14/2006 : 05:51:00
quote:
Originally posted by wrldtrv
Art--If you want in-depth information on the subject, just do a google search on "neuroplasticity." In brief, the idea is that the brains circuits change through experience--good or bad experience. Whatever is emphasized most often, whether it be worry, fear, anger, compassion, love, or even a skill, such as meditation or playing a musical instrument, develops that part of the brain. So really, you could look at the positive feelings as being a sort of antidote to the negative feelings. It's a lot more complicated than that, of course, but that's the general idea.
This really is a positive thing, neuroplasticity, because it shows our biology, our past experiences may be amenable to correction. There is hope.
It's revealing of my basic mind set that though I was aware thaat the brain could be changed....I know it has in my case...that it was generally for the worse...It's very good news indeed that the tide can be turned... |
| wrldtrv |
Posted - 12/14/2006 : 00:17:41
Art--If you want in-depth information on the subject, just do a google search on "neuroplasticity." In brief, the idea is that the brains circuits change through experience--good or bad experience. Whatever is emphasized most often, whether it be worry, fear, anger, compassion, love, or even a skill, such as meditation or playing a musical instrument, develops that part of the brain. So really, you could look at the positive feelings as being a sort of antidote to the negative feelings. It's a lot more complicated than that, of course, but that's the general idea.
This really is a positive thing, neuroplasticity, because it shows our biology, our past experiences may be amenable to correction. There is hope. |
| Littlebird |
Posted - 12/13/2006 : 13:40:09
If you're interested in recent research into the brain's neuroplasticity, you might enjoy the book Social Intelligence, by Daniel Goleman. (There's another book by the same title by someone else--I don't know what it's about.) While Goleman's book does focus on how our interactions with others are both driven by our brain function and how the interactions drive our brain function, all of the basic information underlying the relationship stuff is the neuroscience of the brain, including how the brain circuits develop and the fact that they can be changed, at least to some extent.
Some people don't care for Goleman's books because he does tend to be wordy at times. Similar information can be found on the internet. For example, there was a thread a while back about why you should be around happy people that had some links to articles on the topic.
I find it really encouraging to know that the brain can be changed, even if it's still a challenge at times to know exactly how to bring about changes for the better. |
| h2oskier25 |
Posted - 12/13/2006 : 09:44:37
Just in case anybody read Shawnsmith's message in this topic, and got confused by it.
That quote from Sarno is a quote regarding what TMS must do to be successful, not what YOU must do to successfully conquer it.
Obviously, the thing to do to be successful at conquering TMS is NOT to obssess about your pain and symptoms.
I don't think he was being conbative, maybe he just misunderstood the quote. |
| art |
Posted - 12/13/2006 : 06:56:51
quote:
I've been thinking lately about the same thing you mentioned; getting at the source of the worry and fear and cutting it off there. All the rest--thinking differently, relaxation cd's, exercise, and all the rest work, but after the fact. It would be nice to prevent the fear response in the first place. Maybe it's a matter of using, getting skilled enough, at these techniques to make them second nature. The good news is that, just as worry can negatively alter the brain, evidence shows that the opposite-- changing our thinking, gratitude, simply a more positive spin on life, can alter it for the better. Neuroplasticity.
At last...exactly what I'm getting at...I've often wondered about whether these neurological changes worked in reverse...that's great news...Do you know how that study was designed?
Thanks wrld!!
HI Karen...Thanks for the words of encouragement...Send me an e-mail, let me know how things are going!!! |
| Alpha |
Posted - 12/13/2006 : 03:33:43
quote:
Originally posted by carbar
Yeah, what's your basic constitution? I feel like I have a tendency towards depressive thinking. When I'm down, I dig the hole deeper. I don't know if this is caused BY 7 years of TMS or what CAUSED 7 years of TMS.
I feel totally the same here. When my pains and problem get worse, i get really depressive and can't think about anything then my condition. In times when i feel good and relaxed, i don't really think about my condition rather about my goals and other positive things.
So i also wonder what was there first: The pain or the depression/Anxiety... |
| wrldtrv |
Posted - 12/12/2006 : 23:52:02
Art--Good to hear from you again. It has been a long time.
You might look at the "Anxiety" thread of the past several days too. Yes, worrying is such a useless and miserable thing, but simply knowing that is not enough. The problem is, worrying is a natural, life-preserving instinct as long as it is rational. But most of the worry we are discussing is irrational fear of the unknown. And fear of things, most of which never occur. Furthermore, worry changes the brain permanently. That's worrisome. Each time we respond to a situation this way it reinforces the fear and almost guarantees the same response next time, and the time after that, and after that. And each time the fear response takes hold even faster than previously. We become conditioned to respond this way with merely the slightest stimulus.
I've been thinking lately about the same thing you mentioned; getting at the source of the worry and fear and cutting it off there. All the rest--thinking differently, relaxation cd's, exercise, and all the rest work, but after the fact. It would be nice to prevent the fear response in the first place. Maybe it's a matter of using, getting skilled enough, at these techniques to make them second nature. The good news is that, just as worry can negatively alter the brain, evidence shows that the opposite-- changing our thinking, gratitude, simply a more positive spin on life, can alter it for the better. Neuroplasticity. |
| miehnesor |
Posted - 12/12/2006 : 23:35:13
If the compulsion to worry is itself another TMS equivalent then I would think getting to the repressed rage would take care of the problem. But is this the source of the worry or is worrying something else that is just ingrained in our personality and can't really be changed? I know a lot of folks who don't have TMS but are chronic worriers so I would guess that the answer varies on a case by case basis. Interesting topic. |
| carbar |
Posted - 12/12/2006 : 21:56:49
I don't know if I'd classify myself as a worrier. I guess I do have some of this tendency.
I find that a lot of my negative thoughts went away in concern with learning about TMS and about 6-8 months worth of talk therapy, though.
Yeah, what's your basic constitution? I feel like I have a tendency towards depressive thinking. When I'm down, I dig the hole deeper. I don't know if this is caused BY 7 years of TMS or what CAUSED 7 years of TMS.
Curious.
|
| altherunner |
Posted - 12/12/2006 : 18:40:11
I remembered from Dr. Shecter's cds, on his interview with Dr. Don Dubin, that they stressed the importance of "acceptance and surrender" to heal. I had phone therapy with Dr. Dubin, and asked him what this meant. He said it was acceptance and surrender to "what is", at this moment. I didn't really accept what is until a year or so later. My anxiety lessened, I could accept things from the past, and let them go. My worries reduced by 80%, my automatic negative thought also reduced. Dr. Dubin really helped me with past issues, in 4 sessions. |
| Singer_Artist |
Posted - 12/12/2006 : 16:42:57
Great post Art! I have always heard a very high percentage of the things we worry about NEVER even come to pass..so it is a useless emotion, indeed..Not sure what shawnsmith is getting at, or if he is joking in his response..Anyway..I have faith in you dear friend, you can reduce your worrying, you can do anything you put your mind into!
My knee has been acting up too..and I do my best to journal and read on here..but I do think some of it may be physical as i put on 12 pounds since coming to NYC..Too many Italians here..lol..too much of my boyfriend's mom, fantastic eggplant parmesean..:)
Anyway, I use ice on my knee and it helps, although i might just be placebo..The neck is still acting up sometimes too but i am doing my very best not to worry..
Hugs,
Karen |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 12/12/2006 : 15:45:00
"To be successful it must occupy one's attention and it works even better if you are totally preoccupied or obsessed by whatever it is."
---- John E Sarno- "Healing Back Pain" page 48
So straight from the good doc's mouth folks. Keep being totally preoccupied or obsessed with the pain and it will go away in no time. Think of more things to worry about and it will even speed up the recovery process. |
| altherunner |
Posted - 12/12/2006 : 14:02:35
I was a chronic worrier. keeping my focus on the present moment, and not thinking about the next thing, or 100 what-ifs, has helped. Past and future are really just thought forms. Thinking that who I am is this, my job, what I have, my accomplishments, what people have done to me is really just a bundle of thoughts that weigh us down. |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 12/12/2006 : 13:39:04
Art,
I have found that worrying has indeed solved all my problems in the past. How about you?
So keep worrying, it is the true road to a speedy recovery.......
Shawn |
|
|
