| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| donia |
Posted - 11/30/2006 : 23:40:18
yes i am trying hard about 2 months now but with no sucsess i also have fibro pain .
it is really hard to apply the steps on my face pain!!!! because it is hard to ignore the pain while i have it in a most used area.
any help from those who did it . |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Wavy Soul |
Posted - 12/20/2006 : 02:20:36
Update. Talked to the dentist. He said these muscle spasms are normal after surgery, although he hasn't seen anyone in as much pain as me (nor has he had anyone need 16 teeth operated on), but has gotten everyone through it with time. He gave me the night guard and I felt some relief immediately. At least I am off the Vicodin, but am now (in middle of night) in great pain and have taken Ativan to relax muscle spasm (or I could shoot myself!).
But I can feel that there is a definite improvement when I wear my mouth guard.
So I feel that it's a mixture of tms and tmj. I actually didn't expect the mouth guard to help as much as it does, and I can therefore now imagine things gradually getting better and better back to normal. I am more relaxed about it. So I will be healed in time.
This much pain is meaning I'm not going to England to see mum for xmas. I know that tms isn't particularly about secondary gain, but I am suddenly very relieved to have a week to rest and just BE.
I got Sarno's videos in the mail and am watching them. I have been tuning in to my emotions when the pain comes and there is a lot of crying and growling about the same old same old (but not insignificant) recent stuff.
love to all
Love is the answer, whatever the question |
| donia |
Posted - 12/17/2006 : 23:19:21
quote:
Originally posted by Wavy Soul
HELP!!
So I am trying to work with this as opportunistic TMS. But the level of pain and inability to eat are practically ruining my life.
are talking about me?! u know the problem is that it is not easy to explain to the others while they do not know it or heard about this tmj problem at all .
what i can say is continue trying the splint therapy at least for 3 months straight and if did not work try another doctor because every one has his own treatment way, yes this the problem and also finding the right doctor is the key and the big problem too i am still searching for one.
at the same time work with your tms (tmj) problem i know it is hard and very long process but what else we can do it is our fate to fight this big problem in our small tmj atea.
i started to try the cold laser therapy treatment and i will start again a physical therapy for the jaw,neck and shoulder area but i do not put too much hope on this.
keep searching for the answer we will find it by the god willing soon.
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| Wavy Soul |
Posted - 12/17/2006 : 10:17:54
HELP!!
I'm in such extreme pain that I am battling a desire for Vicodin, which makes it better but which I know I should not be taking longterm. I've already taken so much Tylenol that I can actually feel my liver squirming and have zits and weird skin stuff.
My TMJ all started with massive dental work. I went to Costa Rica to get my bonded front teeth replaced with veneers. They were ugly horse teeth, so I didn't accept them, and came back with new bonding. This started quickly chipping. After a couple of ghastly dentists I met a good one, with integrity, who spent weeks making models and planning how to redo my mouth so it wouldn't all chip again. I trusted him and it ended up involving 16 teeth getting crowns and veneers - it is like buying a car although he charged less than most in my area.
Since the first 8 hour surgery to put in the temporaries I have been unable to eat and experiencing tremendous pain - both muscle pain radiating from my jaw to my eyes and throat, chest and stomach, and ALSO nerve pain in the teeth. Eating puts me into suicidal pain mode, so I have been drinking my food for 2 months.
I have had the 2nd 8 hour surgery to put in the new teeth. They look good, but I am still in pain and can't eat. Tomorrow I am getting a custom-made night guard.
The dentist has worked on adjusting the bite to try to stop the TMJ pain but with no luck.
My problem is that this appears to have been a direct result of dentistry. Yet the shape of my face has changed - literally become straighter. My jaw was a bit off to one side since I went through a BIG trauma 3 years ago with divorce + several other life devastastions. It was as though I was holding my grief in my jaw - I could see it on video.
So I am trying to work with this as opportunistic TMS. But the level of pain and inability to eat are practically ruining my life. I have lost a lot of weight (and it's at the edge where that isn't a good thing!). What works is f***g codeine, but I don't want to take it. I've been trying different cocktails of drugs to literally get me through the night.
I've also done a lot of emotional release around my jaw, facilitated by fellow therapists. It seems as though there is a lot of rage and sadness in there. But a couple of hours after a good cry (or roar!) I am back in pain again.
Help! Can anyone advise me here? I am at wits' end.
xxx
Love is the answer, whatever the question |
| FlyByNight |
Posted - 12/13/2006 : 10:16:26
Donia.
Your history experience of TMJ treatment with TMS and Splint (LVI approach in my case) etc is 99% similar to mine. I definitely think that the dentist just messed the whole thing by playing with the teeth and the jaw position which in turn made the tmj condition very difficult to heal with the TMS approach after. In fact it did create a new terrain for TMS to grow because of the invasiveness of the dental treatment. My strategy to heal is now is the following
1)Baseline treatment with the TMS approach for the emotional aspect inducing ischemia to the neck and jaw , ear , eye areas.
2)Hanna somatic education to deal with the sensory motor amnesia that comes with the fact that my muscles are in spasms for 18 months now. Somatic education address the conditionning aspect of TMS that SArno always talk about but without proposing any solution to overcome it.
3)when the the muscle will be relaxed, the sensory motor amnesia eradicated, and the condition more or less stabilized, I am considering a new splint treatment approach that is more conservative than the LVI approach in regards to the jaw repositionning because my teeth just touch on one side of my jaw and I definitely believe that an even occlusion will add to the jaw stability which is something desirable anyways. It is also proven beyond doubt that the teeth occlusion and the jaw position has a key funbdamental role in the whole proprioception of the entire body so it can induce postural asymetries very easily and then a new terrain for TMS to install itself... even if postural asymetries are usually mostly benign themselves...
Ppl will think on this forum that my approach is still wayyy too much focused on the physical ... but I dont think so. I just think that the best approach to treat chronic pain is the most holistic one and not the most dogmatic one ... Sarno is a genius, not doubt about it, TMS approach helped me to gain back my life pretty much ... and I think it will continue to help me heal even if I am not very religious about it.
P.
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| ndb |
Posted - 12/13/2006 : 08:04:55
Please don't be disheartened about having misinformation to battle against. Try to think of it differently. You aren't under obligation to believe it. Your mind is capable/flexible enough to 'believe' that TMJ is really TMS in spite of info in it to the contrary. Just because you've been given some info (wrong/right) doesn't mean you're doomed to have that in the back of your mind always. I know its difficult.
chingborden, by minor issues, did you mean the jaw pain, which is only occasional? and the more bothersome the neck pain, headaches and dizziness? I think what might be useful also is another approach. Don't fight your mind (though this is useful at times too), but just let the jaw pain be. Just don't allow yourself to be scared that it is there. After all, TMS pain, though excuciating, is harmless. So just try to tell yourself, about the jaw "its just a bit of pain, and I can take it". (When I had a recurrence of jaw pain after finding out about TMS, this is how I overcame it). About the more bothersome symptoms, try thinking about when they started, and what was going on in your life which could have given rise to them. The thinking that the minor TMJ issues are causing them I think is the product of your mind taking everything you know/have heard about TM*J*, and creating symptoms plausible enough to distract you with, and make you believe could be real. Again, it may help to just *laugh* at your mind (not in a bad way, I just mean be good-humored about what your mind is doing), and not fight it.
At my worst, along with the jaw pain, I had horrible eye pain, so that I couldn't stand light, and sat for most of the day in the dark clutching my head in my hands. This went on for over 2 months! I can almost not ****ing believe that it was harmless pain, given how excruciating it was. I was even prescribed glasses....which of course I have no use for now. I also had vertigo/dizziness for a couple of nights. TMJ is just a label...everything in that area causing unexplained pain is put under it. Recite this to yourself when the pain occurs, tell yourself its only harmless pain, not a sign of anything wrong. Also, when you feel pain, think about all the emotional things that happened to you around the time these symptoms cropped up. Did you do that in an earlier post? Sorry, I might have missed it.
ndb
p.s. do you still really beleive what you have written in your profile..."vertigo made worse by.."? Just wanted to relate, taht at some point, my dad sent me to see a 'physical therapist' whose abilities I ddin't really trust in, but I felt obligated to see 'cause my dad said so. Anywway, afetr the second session, I came down with terrible neck pain. For a long time, I thought it was because of something he did (not without reason, he did some very rough stuff, it seemed to me then). But after learning about TMS, it seems so obvious it was the stress of having to see him, though I didn;t want to, and the stress of living with my parents at the time. So please examine possible emotional causes for the vertigo. Your body can withstand quite a bit, and though it may seem to you bad adjustments could cause vertigo, do you *really* have any reason to think so, i.e. do you know what causes vertigo, and that your chiropractor set whatever that is off? No! So why not look for alternate reasons??? |
| donia |
Posted - 12/12/2006 : 23:29:08
quote:
[i] Am I thinking logically here? I wish I had never started seeing the TMJ dentist in the first place because now I have all this misinformation to battle.
chingborden
me too i wish the same because my tmj induced yes it is by the tmj doctor he thought i have it and statrted treating me with a splint till i got the neck ,shoulder ,ear pain plus everyting come with the tmj as apackage which include all the dizzeness, vertigo,headache skull tightness neck pain and everything else related plus the treatment increased the herianation in my neck to be larger after few weeks from starting the splint treatment to push the jaw froward and down to change the position and here i am i gotttttttttt the tmj officialy , now after all these months from fighting the pain with using the splint treatment and after that tried treating myself without it as a mindbody work but both ways did not help to make me normal or pain free again.
so i think tmj is tms and not tms as the same time i mean it can be tms with the first sign u can ignore and try to treat it as tms but if the doctor start to treat u and u asked for help from help and after starting messing the area by pushing the jaw and play with your teeth and this kind of tmj tratment u will not be able to treat as tms case but may be u can benefit from tms theory somehow but not full help so it is the most complicated pain to deal with because it is related to a lot of things like how your teeth meet together or your bad bite and where is your joint is it far back? or dislocated also involve the muscles which is the hardest to treat mine now is muscles related after the doctor fixed the jiont position from far back position to normal position but my muscles did not like the new position of the joint so it went into painfull spasm and chronic pain all these months and i can not get them back to normal pain free state till now so it is very complicated problem u can not know the outcome from the treatment it is making me wish to die everday and i can not imagine i will be like that for the rest of my life. i am just wondering how to deal with it as(as is case) .
thanks |
| donia |
Posted - 12/12/2006 : 23:27:14
hi i had splint treatment with 20% help but i am still suffering. |
| chingborden |
Posted - 12/12/2006 : 22:36:56
very reassuring to hear. Thanks!
It's stupid really. My main complaint isn't even jaw pain, but other things that I was told were caused by the TMJ. I have some jaw/ear pain occasionally, but worse is the tightness in the back of my neck and a headache at the base of my skull and finally the dizziness thing started. When I started the mouthsplint (before I knew about TMS) the neck pain, and head ache went away and the dizziness got better. Now I take out the mouthsplint and those things are back within one day. It's interesting...the TMJ dentist I saw feels that all these things are caused by one thing- TMJ. I think he's on the right track with the things all being realted to one thing, I just think his letters are a little off. Change the 'J' to an 'S' and then he'd be on the right track. So now I'm trying to fight my mind which is trying to scare me into thinking that the minor TMJ issue I have is the cause of other, more bothersome issues. Any thoughts on this. Am I thinking logically here? I wish I had never started seeing the TMJ dentist in the first place because now I have all this misinformation to battle.
chingborden |
| ndb |
Posted - 12/12/2006 : 20:35:28
chingborden,
I resolved TMJ pain without any mouthguard. My dentist made one for me, but after I found out about TMS, did not ever need to use it.
ndb |
| chingborden |
Posted - 12/12/2006 : 19:29:31
Mark Sopher also writes in his book about treating people with TMJ and Nancy Selfridge writes in her TMS fibromyalgia book that 46.9% of people with fibro also complain of TMJ versus only 8.1% of the normal fibro-free population. Just more evidence that TMJ is a TMS issue. Just a question...isn't unconscious clenching and grinding TMS? Unconscious tightening of the muscles? Isn't that what TMS is?
Also, I came down with a whole list of symptoms the year following my newborn daughter's stroke including TMJ and dizziness. Has anyone dealt with those as connected symptoms? Last question...for those of you that beat TMJ, was it done without any sort of mouthguard intervention. I've just scrapped mine in an effort to abandon all "physical treatments" and have had headaches and more dizziness ever since. I'm pretty sure it is my mind trying to mess with me, but would just love to hear from those who did not use anything and solved the problem.
chingborden |
| Wavy Soul |
Posted - 12/08/2006 : 14:40:40
Hi Donia,
I'm just getting ready to leave town for a week, and was feeling very low because of my extreme pain waves which seemed to be starting up again. Then the doorbell rang and it was my sarno videos being delivered.
Didn't have time to watch them, but I decided that = okay okay - I would do a bit of journalling and see if that helped the pain.
I started to write about something that happened to me that was very painful. I am very aware of this (it's a real-life trauma that happened to me a few years ago). But when I started to write about it I suddenly started bawling. I was typing again and again "I'm angry that..."
The way my face suddenly screwed itself up into a grimace was amazing - I could feel how the position of my jaw having been aligned by the dentist has sort of freed up all the trauma that my off-kilter jaw was holding in.
What is tiresome, as you said, is how much it seems to take to keep up with the pain. It's like a very accelerated curriculum.
But I do believe that I enrolled myself in this to some degree.
Will be back in a week and will check in. We seem to be the only active TMJers here right now. It's definitely the worst pain I've had in my life. So maybe it's been masking the worst pain I've ever had in my life (emotionally) ?
xx
Love is the answer, whatever the question |
| donia |
Posted - 12/08/2006 : 09:59:23
hi wavysoul i am glad that found a small evidence for u to prove it is kind of tms . for me i am very mad that this tmj pain does not stop bothering me till i cry for hours and start to think for a way to help so i ended up calling a new doctor for next monday app. to find out if he can help in the other nontms part
hope we will find our way soon because when it comes to the tmj pain it is the hardest to treat by any way it is a very complicated area in the body. |
| Wavy Soul |
Posted - 12/08/2006 : 00:26:33
Okay - GREAT NEWS!!
I've been recounting my journey with TMS directly "caused" by having 16 teeth redone + my whole bite recalibrated. TMS is normal with these circumstances.
But since I now suspect anything less than radiant health is more or less TMS, I have been smelling a rat. Today I was very tired from being up with pain late last night, then taking a new drug from dentist to relax the spasms. But I still had to work with people - and talk about goodism: being a therapist is absolutely the ideal job because you are absolutely obligated ethically, legally, financially, etc. to be "there" for the other person no matter how you are feeling.
So I had 4 clients in a row. Then a friend was coming to visit right after the last client. I had been in INTENSE pain all morning, bypassing this to be there for these other people. When she walked in the door, I said "I need your help NOW! I need to rant."
Okay, rant on, baby, she said. I ranted very strongly about what I'm mad and angry and afraid about. She tracked me very well. I ranted some more, then noticed that the pain had gone.
Later in the day I started feeling the pain again, and ranted some more. I love having a person to rant to much more than journalling, although both work really well. I have to write all kinds of protection in my journal in order to let myself use the words that release the feeling, without making those words creative and magnetic (e.g. I hate so and so, I wish he were dead, etc.).
Anyway, this is one of the first evenings when I have gummed some slightly less liquid food for dinner (6 weeks on liquid diet) yet don't have unbearable pain.
That unbearable pain was either symbolic of, or a distraction from, some super-intense feelings that I realize that I still have rumbling in my inner cauldron, which I believe to be unacceptable.
I did my usual thing of endeavouring to peel of the thoughts from the feelings, upgrade the thoughts, and allow the feelings to move through my body.
I find myself saying a lot to clients these days: "it takes as long as it takes, and when you stop resisting and judging your own unconscious processes, they actually move through much faster."
So the TMJ is definitely, at least partially, TMS
I'm SO glad about this!
xx
Love is the answer, whatever the question |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 12/05/2006 : 13:17:00
There is no separate treatment program for a particular manifestion of TMS or its equivelant. The same pyscological process that generates back, foot, neck and other kinds of pain are the exact same pyscological process that generate your TMJ. The area where the pain is manifesting, as far as TMS is concerned, is not important.
Don't wait around for someone who has had TMJ and has recovered to convince you, as that person may or may not be on this board. The only difference between my TMS and yours is that yours is manifesting in your jaw while mine is manifesting elsewhere. I restate again, the area where the pain is manifesting, as far as TMS is concerned, is not important.
It is a hard concept to grasp, but you have to put aside these diagnosis of "fibromyalgia" and "TMJ" as specific meanings and treatments are attached to them which forces one to focus on the physical. In my humble opinion, "fibromyalgia" and "TMJ" are not a diagnosis at all but merely a doctor's admission that they don't know what is causing the pain but they have to tell you something.
Shawn |
| donia |
Posted - 12/05/2006 : 13:03:23
yes i read it in the book but he just think not confirm.did he treated anybody with it?!!!!!
if so i want to hear from them yes because i want to know how to apply the work on this complicated condition because he did not mention a case like that in his book. |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 12/05/2006 : 11:13:15
Dr. Sarno believes TMJ is a manifestation of TMS. He writes about this i his books |
| Wavy Soul |
Posted - 12/04/2006 : 16:11:18
Just got back from dentist, with whom I had a very interesting talk.
He made some more bite adjustments, then he started talking about how you absolutely can't get perfection in this stuff, and you have to kind of learn to adjust to it. I talked to him about TMS and he was very pleased to hear that I understand this, although he didn't directly know about TMS. But he did confirm that people get a bit over-obsessed with thinking there is some perfect jaw balance that will mean the end of pain.
He said that the other day he noticed a back pain while working, and he just decided to sit a bit straighter.
My situation was definitely initiated by trauma - 16 teeth all ground down (long boring story). But I can see how it has become my new TMS site.
So I'm back to extreme optimism. Not taking my problem too seriously. Avoiding thinking too much about my pain. When it's there, do what I have to do. Don't let it accumulate energy. Believe my body can heal itself - IS healing itself. Check in to see what I'm REALLY feeling, (a lot!), etc.
Really, it's all all all all TMS I truly believe. Maybe the TMS trickles down into the physical and creates conditions that take more time than others to reverse, physically. But it seems to me that, just as an alcoholic is on the road to recovery as soon as he decides to go into a recovery program, we are healing once we start this TMS process, even if we're not "perfect, right and done."
xx
Love is the answer, whatever the question |
| donia |
Posted - 12/04/2006 : 10:25:21
sorry for your pain wavysoul i knkw i have every moment and second about 15 months now i tried several splints with no relief i am not sure how it will go away i am realy scared from the idea i will be like that but i am trying hard also to treat but the money is a big issue also so i hope god will help us.
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| Wavy Soul |
Posted - 12/03/2006 : 20:46:02
I'm in intense pain right now. It comes on when I eat, even though I'm still not eating anything more solid than mashed taters.
This is the most challenging thing imaginable. It is definitely pain from extreme dentistry. And it comes on after I eat and in the night.
Dentist tried to adjust my bite and is going to do more tomorrow.
I'm just reporting - don't have the answer. I'm trying to avoid taking any more codeine because I noticed I was almost looking forward to it even though only doing one every 2 days or so.
F**K!
Love is the answer, whatever the question |
| westcoastram |
Posted - 12/02/2006 : 00:11:13
It sounds like most people here had some TMJ stuff that was not necessarily TMS related but let me say this emphatically since it may not have come out definitively when I stated it first:
I began to experience jaw tightness and jaw pain as I was going through the Sarno's material and my other pains were clearing up. It too soon went away with the Sarno work and journaling.
My jaw pain was 100% TMS. |
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