| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| hsb |
Posted - 08/12/2006 : 11:34:14
Hi again. I successfully dealt with achilles tendonitis and calf issues this summer. I have been able to run for about year now w/o having to take off much time for "injuries". Every time I tried to do something different with my running, I would get a new pain. when I rain 12 miles I developed calf issues. I ran 15 miles and I developed achilles tendonitis issues.
Those distances weren't out of line with what I've been doing.
Lo and behold on Wednesday I decided to try some speedwork. I knew going in I should do too much as a first foray into speedwork in a long time. I ran with my friend who was doing 4 x 1 mile. Even with that warning inside my head I went ahead and did them with her. For the first time doing speedwork I should have done something alot less taxing.
Wednesday night I developed some knee pains. Thursday I ran but something is not right with my knee. As usual I am attaching the pain to this new event ---- the speedwork which was too much for me. hard speedwork = pain if you're not prepared.
So now I am berating myself big time -- I knew I shouldn't but I did it anyway. I am soooo angry with myself because I have been able to go through an entire year without having to stop running and this knee issue is very scary to me. I know if I tell my other running friends what I did their response will be - "how can you do such a long speework workout without even building up to it?" so i cannot tell anyone.
And I sort of agree. So now my knee hurts. Have't run since Thursday and I'm kinda scared to try. Sunda is a running day for me.
Has my luck run out? One whole year with great results - can knee pains be TMS?
Thanks all
HSB
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| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| hsb |
Posted - 08/17/2006 : 16:09:00
Hi Guys-
I ran this morning - did my 6 miles very slowly. the knee bothered me but nothing like stabbing ITB pain at all. I made it through the run and I can say that it wasn't worse, nor was it better. Won't go on the internet any more for my "runner's knee" dx. I am going to continue running as long as it doesn't stop me in my tracks. I am still obsessing that's for sure but I am trying to move it out of my thoughts and breaking the tape loop.
One thing I don't obsess about is going to a doctor. I have been through that so often with all my previous running "injuries". I do obsess about whether or not to run "through" this but I am going to. I do not give into my age (53) - I think I can run pain free like I did 2 weeks ago. It will happen.
Thanks all.
HSB
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| Michele |
Posted - 08/17/2006 : 12:18:46
LOL! I'm the same way Art. Me? 47? NO WAY!!  Sarno says that we can have unconscious rage about getting older and aging. I will concede that some days I let the TMS get me and I sleep in, but most of the time I'm out there pounding the pavement and when a pain comes along I usually say something like "oh no you don't" and let my mind wander to what's REALLY going on.
You're right, it is VERY liberating! I just wish I could convince more of my running friends that the "sudden pain" they feel isn't anything more than a wake-up call for their brain. But alas, we're all just a little bit obsessive, aren't we?  |
| art |
Posted - 08/17/2006 : 11:42:52
MIchele,
Well said... The thing is, I'm not even sure it's possible to get solidly into middle age and not have some pain while running...
I think for me at least, my default frame of reference is youth...I really think there's a part of me that genuinely does not believe I'm 55, or that it's even possible for me to be 55...In that part of me, my "soul," or "my essential self," or whatever you want to call, I'm still, and forever, 21...
It takes a conscious reminder to myself sometimes that this isn't true...That I'm 55 and I can't expect my body not to be breaking down in some ways...Pain in middle age is normal...I doubt very much that it's all TMS..But it in no way means that we can't keep running...Like you Michelle, I've almost always got something going on...This forum with its collective wisdom has really taught me to ignore most aches and pains...IT's a very liberating thing |
| Michele |
Posted - 08/17/2006 : 11:03:07
Every time I run I have some pain somewhere! I haven't had a pain-free run in years, but I just keep going because there's nothing wrong.
I had some weird knee pain a couple weeks ago. I NEVER have knee pain and it just about dropped me to the ground.
Of course, my 16-yr. old just got his license . . .
Our 18-yr. old was leaving for college . . .
I was going to write a big check for the college . .
I was going to write a big check for more car insurance . . .
See where this is taking me? I no longer have the knee pain. |
| hsb |
Posted - 08/16/2006 : 16:45:01
Art-
I still have this fear as the pain is getting worse. I did a bad thing today and looked up "runners' knee" on the net. Of course I did all the wrong things, ie. intense speedwork without proper conditioning, not stretching, etc., etc. It's so weird (or maybe not) that the knee pain came after the speedwork. I always run tons of hills because it's hilly here. I felt great during the speedwork, it wasn't until the next day that the knee pain occurred.
I am planning on getting up to run tomorrow morning. I have visions though of having to stop the run and walking back. FEAR. But also the fear of this being a 6 monther.
The tape loop is "running" rampant. I really have to try tomorrow to run w/o thoughts of the knee and failure and stopping.
On a lighter note .... I have been taking golf lessons - up to my 5th one and finally i had that "aha moment". Got the swing. It all finally connected. I am so excited. Art, you golf so you will understand where i;m coming from.
I will report back after the run.
HSB |
| art |
Posted - 08/16/2006 : 08:32:46
quote:
Art I am trying not to have as many obsessive thoughts.
Keep up the good work HS...You can't succeed if you don't try...A lot of this is simply practice. I just got sick of living in fear. |
| hsb |
Posted - 08/16/2006 : 08:00:06
Maybe I am being greedy for wanting 100% no pain!!! Thanks Art for telling me you run with some sort of mitigating knee pain. I am not averse to taking time off. Last week I ran on Thurs. a.m. and didn't run again until Sunday. Fear is a big part of this I think. The fear of the knee pain turning into something big that will force me out of running. And boy there are tons of knee issues that can happen to runners. This summer has been great - I was able to get through a bunch of "potential" run stoppers. So far the knee pain hasn't stopped like the others. I admit I have a strong fear about this. Because it is not going away as quickly as the others, I am frightened. Art I am trying not to have as many obsessive thoughts.
Thanks for your advice.
HSB
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| art |
Posted - 08/16/2006 : 07:37:32
quote:
Originally posted by hsb
Okay guys, ran on Tuesday and my knee ain't great. I am going to try again tomorrow and then reassess. It definitely is not right. It isn't super painful. I never had a knee issue so I am not sure how to rate this pain. It certainly hasn't gotten better. I am wondering of course if I should take time off and rest or keep trying. I have the incessant tape loop of "if I take time off, it will get better, but what if it doesn't" AND "running on it will make it worse". YUCK YUCK.
I think it was Art who said, if you choose to obsess..... I think that is the most difficult thing for me, the incessant tape loops of the same uncertainy. Do or not do.
So I will run tomorrow and see if it gets worse and then decide whether to take a week off. HATE THIS.
Thanks All
HSB
HS,
For what it's worth, I don't think there's a thing in the world wrong with taking an extra day's rest. Some hardliners might argue, but in my opinion it's a reasonable thing to do...
Having said all that, it really sounds like your knee is not in any way seriously injured...I have a feeling that if you and I swapped knees for a run, you'd be surprised at the low level, migrating knee pain I have...I'm at the point now where I thikn of it as normal...Once in a great while, I get a more severe twinge which might grab my attention, but it's usually just that, a twinge..
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| hsb |
Posted - 08/16/2006 : 05:58:05
Okay guys, ran on Tuesday and my knee ain't great. I am going to try again tomorrow and then reassess. It definitely is not right. It isn't super painful. I never had a knee issue so I am not sure how to rate this pain. It certainly hasn't gotten better. I am wondering of course if I should take time off and rest or keep trying. I have the incessant tape loop of "if I take time off, it will get better, but what if it doesn't" AND "running on it will make it worse". YUCK YUCK.
I think it was Art who said, if you choose to obsess..... I think that is the most difficult thing for me, the incessant tape loops of the same uncertainy. Do or not do.
So I will run tomorrow and see if it gets worse and then decide whether to take a week off. HATE THIS.
Thanks All
HSB |
| altherunner |
Posted - 08/15/2006 : 18:40:05
George Sheehan was kind of a guru of the seventies running boom, and yes he lived in Boston. His books are still popular. |
| art |
Posted - 08/15/2006 : 11:53:06
I'm off for a run of my own...Yesterday on the golf course I had knee pain, right in the spot where I tried out a new quadriceps machine, or rather tried it for the first time in well over a year...
The pain is right where I felt a strain at the end of my set...
I did the usual self-talk...it's TMS, the machine was simply the trigger, etc etc etc...and lo and behold the pain went away..
Unfortunately it came back last night, but I'm pretty sure now that it's TMS...Tempting to take the day off, but no way...
I have read some stuff by him Al...seems to me it was years ago though,..Is he out of Boston by the way? I vaguely remember seeing some highly credentialled running doc amny years ago when I was in my 20's and I can't recall if it was him or not...It was somebody of some note though...
BUt no, on second thought, you say Sheehan was a cardiologist, so wouldn't have been him.. |
| hsb |
Posted - 08/15/2006 : 08:39:45
I ran again today. The knee pain is definitely still there, but not enough to stop me in my tracks, more like a nagging thing. So guess what goes through my mind --- that's right --- if I stop running for (pick a period of time), I would get rid of the pain.
I am trying to fight that though. I believe it is part of the tape loop -- should I or shouldn't I? I am trying to block out the tape loop and continue the run and go with my decision. Tough though.
Thanks Art and Al.
HSB |
| altherunner |
Posted - 08/14/2006 : 20:52:14
Have you read any of George Sheehan's books? He was a competitive runner, cardiologist, and a great writer. I have found him to be inspirational. He ran his fastest marathon in his sixties, a 3:01!
I have been extending my long runs, and have found listening to inspirational books on cd very helpful. I run by myself, so it keeps me going mentally and physically. I know this is off the tms subject, but sometimes listening to a great book, I forget about some small but irritating pain. George did his first triathalon in his sixties, days after learning he had prostate cancer. His friends offered to fill in any parts he thought he might not be able to do, ie the bike. He completed his swim, jumped on the bike without thinking. By the time he completed the run, he was overjoyed, and forgot about his cancer, for the moment. He kept on running and writing into his eighties. |
| art |
Posted - 08/14/2006 : 19:05:14
quote:
I run much much slower than I ever have before.
This is inevitable. We all age at different rates, but I would say it's quitre normal to lose lots of speed by the time we hit our 50's.
It is hard on the ego at times...I was never very fast, but I could run 7's, which is faster than a lot of average type runners...Now I get passed by younger runners all the time...They whizz by me like I'm practically standing still, even though many of them are running no faster than 9's probably....I want to yell after them...."Hey, I used to be able to run like you...In fact, faster than you!!, but of course I don't...They'd just laugh at the old crank...
Getting older is not fun, but I console myself with the knowledge that I'm doing much more than many or even most of my contemporaries... |
| Fox |
Posted - 08/14/2006 : 11:06:04
HSB - if you ran 10 miles recently and your knee isn't hurting much at this point, then why would you think that you have an injury or should take a break from running? You're mentally setting yourself up for some nasty conditioning.....It's got to be TMS...Also, the point about the delayed onset of the pain is a good one - that also points to TMS.... You need to push on with your regular schedule of running....Admittedly, I'm a walker now, but I do have a long prior history of running. TMS knee pain frequently tried to fool me back when I was running. I'd run through mild to moderate knee pain and walk for a while if it got too severe until the pain backed off. I never had any adverse consequences from this. |
| hsb |
Posted - 08/14/2006 : 10:36:28
Thanks. I have been thinking about why I did the speedwork and it definitely was a peer pressure kind of thing. I suppose part of it is self-esteem issues. I have been "injured" so many times in my running career (that is what I am known for) and it has been about a year I have been able to stay running w/o any significant time lay off. My runner's ego got in the way. I run much much slower than I ever have before. And it bothers me some, but not alot because i think one of the reasons I have been able to run non-stop for a year is that I haven't gone crazy with speed work and hard training. Sometimes when people I used to be much faster than go blowing by me .................
So I guess I wanted to try to get some speed back but not thinking that I should have eased into it.
I think those were my feelings. It was a battle in my mind before I did it believe me.
Thanks all.
HSB |
| weatherman |
Posted - 08/14/2006 : 10:29:02
If you had physically injured the knee doing speedwork wouldn't it have started hurting right then? But it didn't start hurting until that night - I believe Sarno lists delayed onset pain as another TMS phenomenon. I've sure had some delayed onset pains in my time, all of which turned out to be nonsense. |
| art |
Posted - 08/13/2006 : 15:41:54
At this stage, I usually take 2 days off between runs, and never run two days in a row if the first day was a hard one.
With all the self-flagellation, I'm surprised you wouldn't take the next day off...
Don't want to set any contrary vibes in motion, but all that unaccustomed speed work, and then not taking the next day to rest is risky in my view...
I think you're absoutely fine, but I might rethink me over-all approach...I might also think about just what was going on internally when you did all that speed work knowing full well that you were setting yourself up for post-run worry...
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| hsb |
Posted - 08/13/2006 : 14:49:48
Wed. was my first foray into speedwork, hency the self-flagellation. First speedwork - 4 x 1 mile. duh what was i thinking. I ran on Thursday just to get moving after a hard workout. I usually run tues. thurs. sat. sun. i got a little side tracked from the speedwork.
My mind is playing tricks again. Damn if I could run 10 miles, then i can't be in much pain but my mind is going rampant .... i.e., the knee doesn't feel so great, maybe if you stopped running, it will feel better, etc. etc. you know the drill. i am trying hard to get those thoughts out of my head along with the tape loops.
thanks art. i usually swim the days i don't run. good for the legs to rest.
I think my brain needs something to attach itself to. This year has been a great one in terms of sticking with the running and not having to take off time for "injuries". I think one thing that i have been doing is trying not to catastrophize much (can't tell by these posts can you!!! LOL). The underlying stream of thinking the worst is always there. but i am doing better.
thanks art. tomorrow to swim and hope the knee issues have gone south.
hsb |
| art |
Posted - 08/13/2006 : 14:38:40
Good job hs...By the way, I'm a big fan of day's off or x-training...
I have a kickbike (scooter/bike hybrid) that I ride on off days, as well as a Trikke...(hard to describe)
I'm able to work out nearly every day now, which I love...
I noticed you ran Thursday, the day after the speed work, is that right? The body can handle it, but at the same time it's a smart idea to rest, for me usually in the form of cross training..Just my opinion...
BY the way, good for you at 53...I think wrld is up there too...I often wonder where all the old runners have gone..I started out in 1975 or so, and now very rarely see a contemporary out there...I'm not going to quit til they carry me away in a stretcher..
Movement is life!! |
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