| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Nor |
Posted - 06/10/2006 : 20:33:21
I was just reading the post on EMDR and Quackwatch. I've also read things about Stephen Barrett (conservative MD - founder of QW) which ruin his credibility to me. He was apparently at war (via various writings) w/Dr. Andrew Weil who I consider to be the most no-nonsense and helpful of all integrative medicine authors I've read about. Dr. Sarno and he have quoted eachother in their respective books.
Nor |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 07/01/2006 : 10:20:32
ONE SET TO LOVE |
| Fox |
Posted - 06/21/2006 : 07:30:51
Spiderbaby - I think that you have provided a great argument, perhaps unintentionally, in favor of the view that folks should not waste their time with non-evidence based "cures" (unless there are no evidence-based cures - and then only cautiously) and should pay attention to what is said in Quackwatch.....By the way, is your moniker connected to the cult movie with Lon Chaney, Jr? |
| spiderbaby |
Posted - 06/20/2006 : 18:44:37
I just have to jump in here about Quackwatch. I understand what Dr. Barrett is trying to do and that he thinks he is helping people by steering them away from questionable medical practices. However, it seems obvious to me that he has never been in intractible and unrelenting pain and suffering and cannot put himself in the place of someone who is. I can see both sides of the Quackwatch coin. I have lost thousands of dollars seeking alternative treatments that have not helped me at all. If I had listened to Dr. Barrett, I would be better off financially. However, I felt I had to try everything I possibly could to get some relief from this constant pain. I suppose it is like gambling. You pay your money and you take your chance. Unfortunately, the alternative providers never offer a money back guarantee. |
| Singer_Artist |
Posted - 06/20/2006 : 12:30:18
Loved what you said, TT about Sarno's 25 years of direct experience with patients with TMS...It makes him very credible, indeed... |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 06/20/2006 : 12:15:36
Last one standing wins. 
__________________________________________________________________
WT: "Cigarette smoke contains over 4000 different chemicals."
ME: Impossisble! I just dissected one of my KOOLS and there were only 875 bits of toabacco in there...so obviously there CANNOT be 4000 different chemicals in there. What a waste of a good menthol.
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THE STRAWDOG FALLACY--sorry I didn't see it...was it a sequel to the original...give me facts, not films.
quote:
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ME: The problem is that the snake oil salesman pray on the desperaton of such people.
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PW: What about the clubs that distribute it free?
ME: The evil tobacco companies used to have pretty girls give out free samples of cigarettes, before it was made illegal to do so.
______________________________________________________________________
PW: I said I don't, didn't say I never. By your pedantic logic, since I never had cancer or AIDS, I shouldn't write about those either. Okee dokey.
Me: In the interest of science, I think that would be a good idea.
_______________________________________________________________
Sorry guys, can't play anymore, my mommy's calling, have to attend my kindergarden graduation 
Regards,
The Illogical, Side-Stepper, Chipped-Shoulder-(c-6/c-7), Pedant, Projector, Lame Witted, Rediculous, Simpleminded, Foolish, Ignorant, Right-Wing Talk Show Host, Projector, Desparate Clinger, Fixated, Frightened, Rigidly Structured, Negative, Nightmare Living, Perversely Prideful, Charmer 
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| art |
Posted - 06/20/2006 : 07:17:07
quote:
TT--Clever way of side-stepping my claim that cigarettes are far more harmful than marijuana. Instead of debating THAT claim you attacked my comment in passing about a related movie I once saw (straw man fallacy) which, as you well knew, was only an aside, not part of my argument.
Anyway, it's not important. It's pretty clear to me, at least, that you are in your own little black and white world and are not to be budged. So be it.
This is precisely why I won't bother. I actually said the things I said not for TT's benefit, because I knew from the outset he wasn't susceptible to logic, but just to air my personal views. Makes me feel better to do this once in a while...
Basically, he just wants to bait the opposing side. Life is too short.
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| Plantweed |
Posted - 06/20/2006 : 05:45:55
OK, this is getting ponderous, so it'll be the last time I humor the chip on your shoulder...
quote:
I have smoked grass, as well as sold it, so my info is first hand. You admit you don't smoke it so what makes you such as expert on the subject?
I said I don't, didn't say I never. By your pedantic logic, since I never had cancer or AIDS, I shouldn't write about those either. Okee dokey.
quote:
I'm afraid your "scientific" evidence is dated and has been trumped by the most recent NIH findings--that there is NO scientific evidence for any medicinal value for canabis.
By putting "scientific" in quotes, I guess that means you're questioning the validity of my citation, y'know, the one from NIH, the very group you're trumpeting. But you're standing by their Drug Abuse division, which, by its very nature, will never write anything positive about an illegal drug. A strange gambit.
quote:
Did you bother to read the link I posted? Probably not.
Of course I did. Why be so negative and assume I didn't? They had nothing positive to say and I didn't expect them to.
quote:
Warning: don't read, if you don't want your cherished views to be challenged.)
I welcome a challenge, if it leads to truth. Do I detect some projection?
quote:
The problem is that the snake oil salesman pray on the desperaton of such people.
What about the clubs that distribute it free?
quote:
Why don't you tell us about how you got your name Plant_weed? It sounds like it may be a good story.
No thanks. I'd like to retain my anonymity. |
| wrldtrv |
Posted - 06/20/2006 : 00:30:06
TT--Clever way of side-stepping my claim that cigarettes are far more harmful than marijuana. Instead of debating THAT claim you attacked my comment in passing about a related movie I once saw (straw man fallacy) which, as you well knew, was only an aside, not part of my argument.
Anyway, it's not important. It's pretty clear to me, at least, that you are in your own little black and white world and are not to be budged. So be it. |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 06/19/2006 : 15:38:29
Hi Plant_weed,
If you can't see the connection between your monicker and pot than I'm afraid you, are the one with the lame sense of humor. I'd be like you asking me about tennis and me saying, "I don't play tennis, where in the world would you get a crazy notion like that?"
I have smoked grass, as well as sold it, so my info is first hand. You admit you don't smoke it so what makes you such as expert on the subject?
I'm afraid your "scientific" evidence is dated and has been trumped by the most recent NIH findings--that there is NO scientific evidence for any medicinal value for canabis.
I'm not surprised the results of this landmark study are not widely known, the NYT probably buried it with the obits. Lately, many long awaited studies have come out discounting any therapeutic value for accupunncture, glucoseamine-chrondroitin and St. John's Wort. I have tried them all and despite some placebo effect upon first try--USELESS except for emptying the wallet and small talk at cocktail parties and in the hot-tub.
Did you bother to read the link I posted? Probably not. Here it is again for your edification: (Warning: don't read, if you don't want your cherished views to be challenged.)
http://www.nida.nih.gov/Infofacts/marijuana.html
As far as using pot, If you've been given a terminal DX, you are entitled to try everything under the sun. I have no problem with that. The problem is that the snake oil salesman pray on the desperaton of such people. An acquaintance told me about a Philipino healer that could perform miracles for $25--I had half a thought to try it when I was in my acute state. What ever works.
Sarno writes about a doctor with back problems who went deep into the jungle and sought out a witch-doctor who did an all night voo-doo ceremony culminated by cutting the head off a chicken--the doctor was cured.
Why don't you tell us about how you got your name Plant_weed? It sounds like it may be a good story.
Regards,
The Lame Witted, Rediculous, Simpleminded, Foolish, Ignorant, Right-Wing Talk Show Host, Projector, Desparate Clinger, Fixated, Frightened, Rigidly Structured, Negative, Nightmare Living, Perversely Prideful, Charmer |
| Plantweed |
Posted - 06/19/2006 : 13:52:21
quote:
Originally posted by tennis tom
I really don't feel that anyone with the name "plant_weed" can be objective on this subject.
Well, you don't know how I got my nickname; I don't smoke grass. So much for lame attempts at wit.
The Institute of Medicine's 1999 report on medical marijuana stated, "The accumulated data indicate a potential therapeutic value for cannabinoid drugs, particularly for symptoms such as pain relief, control of nausea and vomiting, and appetite stimulation."
-- Source: Janet E. Joy, Stanley J. Watson, Jr., and John A Benson, Jr., "Marijuana and Medicine: Assessing the Science Base," Division of Neuroscience and Behavioral Research, Institute of Medicine (Washington, DC: National Academy Press, 1999). |
| Fox |
Posted - 06/19/2006 : 12:03:43
Oh! But I should say that I definitely do support legalized MJ for folks with certain chronic illnesses (like cancer) so I actually agree with Plantweed here. |
| Fox |
Posted - 06/19/2006 : 11:55:46
I'm really enjoying these posts. Great fun. A lot of good points made by both sides. Tennis Tom - you really know how to push folks' buttons. I know you're enjoying this. Me too.....And yes, how can Plantweed be objective on the M issue? I'm still laughing. |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 06/19/2006 : 09:14:33
Hi plantweed,
I really don't feel that anyone with the name "plant_weed" can be objective on this subject.
For a well researched article about the deleterious effects of pot based on the latest research go to:
http://www.nida.nih.gov/Infofacts/marijuana.html
Regards,
The Rediculous, Simpleminded, Foolish, Ignorant, Right-Wing Talk Show Host, Projector, Desparate Clinger, Fixated, Frightened, Rigidly Structured, Negative, Nightmare Living, Perversely Prideful, Charmer |
| Plantweed |
Posted - 06/19/2006 : 06:17:57
quote:
Originally posted by tennis tom
Placebo effect, pure and simple.
Ridiculous. You really believe the "munchies" effect pot causes is a placebo? It helps very sick, nauseous people eat. |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 06/18/2006 : 20:55:25
OK Art,
I'll bite, tell me what damage my views have caused? Then tell me how your views have saved the world.
Regards,
The Simpleminded, Foolish, Ignorant, Right-Wing Talk Show Host, Projector, Desparate Clinger, Fixated, Frightened, Rigidly Structured, Negative, Nightmare Living, Perversely Prideful, Charmer |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 06/18/2006 : 18:42:13
wrldtrv,
Honest to G-d I am a life-long registerd democrat. Of course I voted for Bush. I hate to tell you this, but this is America and you are not REQUIRED to vote for the party you are registered to--no matter what Howard Dean, Marin Sheen and Barbara Streisand say.
I don't get my politcal views by watching Hollywood movies. They are produced to sell popcorn. It's amazing that people go to movies and think that they are real. Hitler had great German film makers produce propagranda movies for him. They were beautifully photographed.
I haven't done any name calling. It's amazing that if one expresses an opinion that conflicts with another's political beliefs they are deomonized and name called. "I'll give you freedom of speech as long as you agree with me."
I have backed up all my opinions with citations from the news, internet or my own personal experiences. The other side throws movies at me--pass the popcorn, lightly buttered please. |
| art |
Posted - 06/18/2006 : 18:33:30
Wrld, I agree with you 100 percent, but I only get angry about the drug stuff...So foolish, so ignorant.
I sometimes feel deeply sad for our country, and I'm 1000 percent serious...Tennis Tom has no idea of how much damage his views are responsible for, but the truly sad thing is that even if he did, he wouldn't change his mind...
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| wrldtrv |
Posted - 06/18/2006 : 12:03:41
TT--I have a hard time buying your claim that you are a "lifelong registered democrat." Your comments, across the board, read like the typical right-wing talk host. Nothing wrong with that as long as you don't claim to be what you're not.
You defend cigarettes, yet they kill hundreds of thousands a year. You say, "at least we know what goes into the manufacture of marlboros." Do we? Cigarette smoke contains over 4000 different chemicals. There was a great movie (can't recall name) a few yrs ago based on cig co's lying about what they put in their product (substances to increase addictive power).
Your Al Gore comment with its tired repetition of that ignorant line about Gore supposedly saying he invented the internet proves you are not a Dem. Who did you vote for in the 04 and 00 elections? Again, you can be whatever you want to be, but don't pose as a Dem to give you more credibility when you denounce drugs, welfare (your comment on the dole checks), the supposed wickedness and decline of San Francisco...
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| tennis tom |
Posted - 06/18/2006 : 09:25:43
Mornin' Art,
I'm out of my corner after a good night's sleep. Glad I could help you with your TMS catharsis; the bill's in the mail.
I absolutely do believe that illegal drug use is the root of almost all evil. Marijauana is the entry level drug. 12 and 13 year olds smoke pot like we used to sneak cigs. But, pot is much worse because it effects the mind. You could smoke a cig and take your SAT's but try doing that smoking a joint.
For tennagers, pot is a lot easier to get than cigs. This is due to the recent demonization of tobacco. It's cost has soared due to to usurus taxes and greedy state litigation. No doubt, the price of a reefer and a Camel, will soon be in parity.
Remember the rumors about the big tobaccco companies registering names like Acapulco Gold for future use. Maybe the future is now. It's a lot easier to grow pot than cultivate tobacco. It is a weed after all.
Teens can grow it themselves or jump over their neighbor's fence and steal it--kind of hard to report the theft of your pot to the cops. I really feel sorry for tobacco farmers. It's an un-even playing field, (ask Al Gore, he toiled in his family's tobacco fields, while simultaneously inventing the internet).
Tobacco is exorbitantly taxed and even the tobacco manufacturers run ads demeaning it--while the virtures of hemp are extolled and drug dealers pay no taxes--better deal than owning your own church.
Actually, nicotine is a great natural relaxant. The American Indians understood its curative properties--remember the peace-pipe? At least you know what goes into the manufacturing of your Marlboros. G_d only knows what pot is fertilized and laced with--I've been on some strange trips in my day--probably explains my strange views.
I never said that pot was the cause of only urban decay. It is pervasive in the suburbs and rural areas as well; wherever the US Mail distributes the dole checks to.
As far as, an over-view, of this "tangental-to-TMS" pissing match, we have been having, under the apt subject of "...Quackwatch". It has gotten far more reads than any other topic of late. Proof that we'll do almost anything to distract us from doing our TMS work.
Regards,
the simple-minded charmer |
| art |
Posted - 06/17/2006 : 11:24:36
Well, you're not without a certain charm, I'll hand you that. Who knows? Maybe you even believe this "marijuana is the root of all urban evil" stuff less than you appear to, but backed yourself into a corner..
I'm not sure why Dave would object to this discussion, though my impression is you've been on the board longer than I, so perhaps you're right.
In any case, I seem to have the need for a good, healthy eruption every few months. For the time being, I've gotten it out of my system...
A. |
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