| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Carly |
Posted - 01/08/2006 : 15:45:47
Interesting article in todays Sunday Times on Anna Hemmings Britains leading female marathon canoeist. She spent 2 years battling chronic fatigue syndrome before making dramatic recovery to win both the European and World Championships last year. She recovered using reverse therapy and explains its premise is that chronic fatigue is a mind-body-environment imbalance. She also talks about journalling, non expression of emotion and the other big trigger being fear.
To read full article you can go to www.timesonline.co.uk Click on Sunday times January 8 - scroll down to magazine and then click on Anna Hemmings
Carly |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| jilly_girl |
Posted - 01/19/2006 : 07:26:39
hey kdw. i know, but the fact is my bladder is already a bit lower than it should be and other parts are a bit pushed out of place, i know, i can feel it. gynos tell you nothing, and as for a TMS doc, are there any out there lol. I am going to a clinic that specializes in bioidentical hormones and hope they will discuss it with me. when i asked the gyno who did my surgery why my leg hurt, she said "never heard of that...dont lift"...end of discussion. thanks!
Jill |
| kdw |
Posted - 01/18/2006 : 16:50:06
Jill - I learned about the prolapse during a regular exam. In the weeks after that, I began to have discomfort in my lower back and consented to the surgery. Since learning about TMS, I've wondered if I really needed the surgery or if my discomfort was simply a reaction to the suggestion that I "should" have been in pain. I will probably never know for sure.
I have never had the symptoms you describe, but I find it hard to believe that women today have suddenly developed pelvic muscles so weak that we have to have all these surgeries. It has certainly become more common in recent years than ever before. I'm not saying it's not so, just that it seems suspicious to me.
Even if your problem has some physical qualities to it, it seems ridiculous for a doctor to suggest that you should deal with it by simply avoiding lifting. There has to be exercises you can do (kagels, for instance, along with walking or something like that) to strengthen those muscles, as well as the rest of your body.
I think you should find a gynocologist or TMS doctor who will offer solutions, not just tell you to stop doing things you want to do. Once you understand exactly what it going on with that area, you'll be better able to determine what is truly physical and what is TMS and what you can do about all of it. In my opinion, you will not be able to truly accept that you have TMS if you are going through life afraid that your bladder will fall out if you do anything! No one could. I think that is something you will have to determine before you can move forward in treating your symptoms as TMS.
|
| Stryder |
Posted - 01/18/2006 : 16:16:59
quote:
Originally posted by jilly_girl
Sorry! double posted accidentally.
Jill
You can delete them if you are the author. Look for the 4th icon with the little trash can on it :-) -Stryder |
| jilly_girl |
Posted - 01/18/2006 : 14:12:12
hi kdw. thanks for your input on this topic, its a difficult one, as the doctors tell you little to nothing except "dont lift". when you say you believe it was all TMS, do you mean the discomfort was TMS but not prolapse at all? i know that my prolapse did cause me discomfort because my uterus was falling OUT. and i do mean out lol. it was like sitting on a baseball. i cant help but believe that the weak pelvic muscle problem exist since when i have to have a bowel movement its pushed up into the vaginal area (my sincere aplogies to the gentlemen reading this post) its difficult to know just how "careful" i have to be. or if i DO have to be. anyway, thank you so much for your input.
Jill |
| kdw |
Posted - 01/18/2006 : 10:33:30
Jill - Your recent posts have been very intereting for me. In 1998, I had a partial hysterectomy for a prolapsed uterus. I had barely recovered from the surgery when I developed horrible sciatica in my left leg. I didn't know about Sarno then and had steriod injections, etc. Many months later I had forced myself to resume some of my normal activities and was better but still having pain when I saw Dr. Sarno on 20/20 talking about TMS. After reading MBP and HBP, I recovered completely within a very short period of time and have been running, biking, practicing martial arts, doing yoga and lifting weights WELL OVER 20 pounds ever since.
I have become suspicious of the prolapsed uterus diagnosis, but in any event I KNOW the diagnosis does not mean one is doomed to a life of inactivity. I don't believe the "weak pelvic muscles" and the havoc they can wreak that doctors like to talk about, either.
Of course, I'm not a doctor and I can't speak for your situation, but in my case, I believe it was ALL TMS. If a sufficient time has pased since your surgery, I think you should consider resuming some type of physical activity, as Peter suggested, perhaps something as simple and non-threatening as swimming or walking. Just my two cents. |
| jilly_girl |
Posted - 01/18/2006 : 10:13:22
Sorry! double posted accidentally.
Jill |
| jilly_girl |
Posted - 01/18/2006 : 10:11:31
hi carolyn, i'm sorry you've had such health problems. Not trying to be hostile just saying what i think. I think I carry tension in my pelvic area. It hurts like hell. I cant work. Its very hard. I have seen some improvement.
Jill |
| jilly_girl |
Posted - 01/18/2006 : 10:08:01
Hi Carolyn. Sorry for your health problems, i can truly relate. i think you are right, TMS did choose my pelvic area. I carry all my tension there. I had miserable complications after my surgery. The pain in my bladder disappeared after surgery, then reappeared in my leg/butt. It doesnt embarass me buts its quite simply awful. It hurts like hell and I cant work. I've seen a bit of improvement.
Jill |
| Carolyn |
Posted - 01/18/2006 : 09:04:48
Jill,
I think you most likely do have TMS. My chronic pelvic pain also started with a real 'female problem' that required surgery- seven of them actually. After the surgeries, the pain was gone for a while and then came back worse than before and started spreading. I think that either the TMS choses your pelvis for the pain because you will believe it since you have a 'real' problem there or because you are angry that you had a problem there in the first place. It is not easy for a woman to have a hysterectomy or to have embarassing problems 'down there'. My whole ordeal stretched over three awful years and was a very stressful time.
I also think you come accross a little hostile on this board which is probably not helping you. Why don't you try accepting some of what people say here for a while and see if it might work for you rather than just dismissing them as wrong? |
| gevorgyan |
Posted - 01/18/2006 : 02:34:33
thank you for all answers,
I am petrified by this psychologically approach. 10 years ago I finish the Silva’s course, so I have been familiarized with, let me say, self-therapy. But what is happen now during TMS treatments is for me very bad experience. During visualization and during the try to speak with this (the child, gremlin, whatever) I feel totally lost. I feel like everything in my head scoff at me, like I was an intruder in the world of my mind.
Yes, it seems me that I need therapist, I’ve even made an appointment in the next week, but she unfortunately doesn’t know Sarno’s theory. So the first meting will be to acknowledge her with it. Pity that for my money 
Ps. I think that Jill has TMS, the most important thing is that she is sure in it. As I understood dr Sarno well every pain which remain for long lime after a injury is TMS.
Monika |
| jilly_girl |
Posted - 01/17/2006 : 19:51:39
Peter I believe i do have TMS based on the fact that my prolapse problems dont cause the kind of pain I have. Its just that my pain is in the same area. I do not believe my chronic pelvic pain is related to the structural problems, even though they do exist in that area. And my pain moves around a lot. It stays in the pelvic area (and leg) but it does move. I know this is impossible for you to understand, being a man you know nothing about prolapse problems most likely.
Jill |
| n/a |
Posted - 01/17/2006 : 18:16:09
samthefish
Thanks for sharing with the board.
Your pain symptoms and the patterns you described sure sound a lot like TMS to me. Do you fit any of the psychological profile of a TMS person outlined in Dr. Sarno's books? What about your personality traits? |
| n/a |
Posted - 01/17/2006 : 15:50:03
Jill, it does not seem you have TMS, given what you have told me about your condition, so what brings you on this message board? |
| samthefish |
Posted - 01/17/2006 : 13:45:42
I kind of hesitate to jump in this discussion at this point but here goes.
I think a very useful purpose of the forum is in having it address doubts that folks have that are impeding progress in accepting a TMS diagnosis. Dr. Sarno says that people must find the diagnosis logical and cosistent, and using this forum has been helpful to me in that regard, mostly by showing that there are other folks with similar symptoms that have been helped by this approach. My take on scientific theories is that they aren't true or false, only useful or not: Einstien may have proven Newtonian physics to be wrong but for someone with my math skills Newtonian physics is much more useful. Even the best, most consistent scientific theory could be proved false by future data we don't know about yet. The real mark (in my mind) about a good theory is that it make specific assertions about "the way things are" that gives you practical and effective tools with which to solve a problem. Sarno's theory for me has been extremely helpful in that regard.
Here's some of the datapoints that for me have made TMS a logical diagnosis:
- extensive medical workups failed to find anything significant other than a minor narrowing inbetween vertebre in my neck
- my neck, back pain started at a very stressful time in my life with tremendous amount of change
- my pain is worse in times of high stress
- My wife (a physical therapist) confirmed that in her experience bulging discs had no correlation to the existance or location of pain
- my pain is invariably better when I take extended 10 day hikes laden with a heavy backpack - if it were a structural problem why on earth would that make it feel better?
- I felt better from reading the book
- other people with similar personality types (like on this boards) also have similar symptoms
- my pain almost always gets better when I take the time to think about emotional things
I don't think we can discount other theories offhand. Let's assume every word Sarno wrote is absolutely 100% true. It wouldn't be surprising for other approaches that share some of Sarno's approaches (like reverse therapy) to be somewhat effective.
SamTheFish |
| miehnesor |
Posted - 01/17/2006 : 12:26:52
quote:
Originally posted by gevorgyan
I must use my mind to battle with my mind. This is craziness, this is dark zone. The unconscious mind is storing something – the more I dig, the more I tremble at the morning.
I want to know what will be at the end of this therapy for me, in my case. This is about my life, not convincing or agreeing with you.
Monika
Monika- Forget about searching for the end and stay dedicated to the process. Just keep at it and continue to dig and push right smack into the fear. This is what your mind is trying to distract you from. Be aware that if your symptoms increase that you are getting closer to the emotion. You will discover the truth in good time. Get help if you feel you are getting stuck. |
| miehnesor |
Posted - 01/17/2006 : 12:25:40
quote:
Originally posted by gevorgyan
I must use my mind to battle with my mind. This is craziness, this is dark zone. The unconscious mind is storing something – the more I dig, the more I tremble at the morning.
I want to know what will be at the end of this therapy for me, in my case. This is about my life, not convincing or agreeing with you.
Monika
Monika- Forget about searching for the end and stay dedicated to the process. Just keep at it and continue to dig and push right smack into the fear. This is what your mind is trying to distract you from. Be aware that if your symptoms increase that you are getting closer to the emotion. You will discover the truth in good time. Get help if you feel you are getting stuck. |
| jilly_girl |
Posted - 01/17/2006 : 09:51:52
Peter in my case there is a structural problem in the area. I had a hysterectomy due to uterine prolapse and unless i want to give birth to my bladder! (sorry guys, its tough being a woman), i cant lift anything heavy (over 20 pounds!!). My pelvic floor muscles are weak. My bladder and other parts are already slightly prolapsed and unless I want more very unplesant surgery to put em back up, I can not resume normal activity.
I see little good to be done from digging around with a Freudian shrink who will no doubt find something to blame on my parents! That approach wont work with me, If it does with you, then good! My parents were not perfect parents. Neither am I.
Jill |
| Dave |
Posted - 01/17/2006 : 09:27:35
quote:
Originally posted by jilly_girl
I wouldnt pay 10 cents to see a Freudian psychologist. I did that years ago, when i suffered severe OCD, only to be told "its your parents fault". Just how it was their fault was never made clear to me! I do not believe my pain is due to my being mad at my Mommy and Daddy. Sometimes childhood issues do need to be addressed, but it can be taken to an absurd point. And Peter, your guarantee that our pain will persist is bull****. I feel so much better having said that, I did NOT repress my rage
Jill
You base your entire opinion of Freudian psychology on one encounter? Does the thought enter your mind that maybe that particular doctor was not a good psychologist? Or that maybe now, with a new understanding of how psychology connects to your physical symptoms, your experience might be different? Or that maybe a Freudian psychologist is useless for treating TMS unless they also accept the mindbody connection?
With this attitude it is not surprising that you are unable to truly accept the TMS diagnosis. Seems to me you are very closed minded. Feel free to get angry at me for saying this, but also realize that anger is just a smokescreen serving as a further distraction from the true feelings that are buried within. |
| n/a |
Posted - 01/17/2006 : 08:48:07
Ok, that is great you are digging into your emotions, but what else are you doing? I did this for a long time too but then I found I also had to get on with my life as much as possible. In "Healing Back Pain" Dr. Sarno states that "Perhaps the most important (but most difficult) thing that patients must do is to resume all physical activity, including the most vigorous. This means overcming the fear of bending, lifting, jogging, playing tennis or any other sport, and a hundred other common physical things." (page 79)
I am not 100% pain free myself, but I am out and moving around which took some doing but just sittng thinking about it all the time is not enough and may be counter-productive.
Please note, you may never know what the emotion or personality trait that is contributing to your pain. The main thing is to think about what may be possibly the emotion or personality trait.
It is also not wise to paint all therapists with the same brush.
Please also note, from a TMS perspective, you don't really know if you are angry at your parents or not as the real culprit is buried deep within your unconscious. Dr. Sarno writes a lot about. The thing which you are denying the most in many times the real source of the problem. Don't dismiss anything.
|
| jilly_girl |
Posted - 01/17/2006 : 08:47:51
I wouldnt pay 10 cents to see a Freudian psychologist. I did that years ago, when i suffered severe OCD, only to be told "its your parents fault". Just how it was their fault was never made clear to me! I do not believe my pain is due to my being mad at my Mommy and Daddy. Sometimes childhood issues do need to be addressed, but it can be taken to an absurd point. And Peter, your guarantee that our pain will persist is bull****. I feel so much better having said that, I did NOT repress my rage
Jill |
|
|
