| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| aorta |
Posted - 06/19/2005 : 22:17:57
Although I have read two Sarno books, and recognize a lot of myself in them, i cant convince myself its all from repressed emotions, and not a terrible disease or condition.
I have been in terrible health for over a year. It started with some chronic lower back pain, followed by something like colitis or chrons. Horrible bowel movements, nausea abdominal pain etc. As i admitedly stressed over this, a new catastrophe appeared. Pain in the shoulder blade area, and neuropathy in my arms, legs and feet.
Terrible burning on the bottoms of my feet.Then i had a definite stress period which resulted in panic attacks and depression. All of this practically ruined my business, and my family life. I also have a history of allergy, asthma, migraines, dizziness etc.
Testing for the intestines, included colonoscopy, small bowel series,
ultrasound of gallbladder, gastroscopy, all turned out negative to my shock considering the disgusting evidence. Blood tests including vitamin/minerals, lyme, etc. also negative. x rays of the spine, negative. All this testing causes me to panic more, but there is no end to the testing i could have for these conditions. I also have pounding heart sometimes for a half a day at a time. It pounds so hard that my body moves as i sit on a chair.
To say this has ruined my life is an understatement. I do feel like its going to kill me, probably soon.
I would like to believe its tms, but i cant. Being sick from having a bowel movement while your feet are burning is hard to dismiss.
Ive seen psychiatrists, and even they arent sure if its physical or not. Im taking a small dose antidepressant and xanax for the panic, reluctantly. Ive tried hypnosis, counseling, accupuncture, the dreaded subliminal audio cds and so on.
I see many people that have had this affliction or that, read the books, are convinced, and say they are getting better. HOW?
Just by convincing themselves its emotional? There is very little payoff in the books in my opinion. Yell at your mind, stop tricking me with these symptoms etc. Probably less than 1/500th of the books, deal with any type of treatment, just a couple of vague suggestions.
I suppose if you convince yourself anything is psychological it would help. So here i am in limbo, my life at stake. What do i do, how do i fight this?
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| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Fredarm57 |
Posted - 06/23/2005 : 11:24:37
Aorta: This is somewhat off-topic, but try the Gentle Leader on your dog. Wheatens (like my Riley) are notorious leash-pullers, and Riley lives up to the reputation. But with his Gentle Leader on he's like a different dog - no pulling and he walks right by my side. The Gentle Leader is very humane - no choker or prongs. Here's a link:
http://www.gentleleader.com/pages.cfm?id=17
Fred |
| ssjs |
Posted - 06/23/2005 : 10:25:48
Aorta...
You are suffering from depression. Get real help. This message board is not equipped to handle the sadness in the depth of your soul.
This back and forth goes no where. no matter what people suggest, you go against it.
No one wants you to become more repressed...they just want you to seek the proper help. To let it out where it will make a difference.
You have already proven to us that you are miserable. Now do something about it. Before your suicidal thoughts become reality.
You CAN do it. But we are not doctors, and we shouldn't even be helping you, when it doesn't really help.
Sandy |
| aorta |
Posted - 06/22/2005 : 14:52:11
yeah hes great. last year he pulled me off a rock and fractured my ankle. As i lay on the ground semi conscious he ran after squirrels.
youre right, ignore the pain, he barked.
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| Dave |
Posted - 06/22/2005 : 13:27:58
quote:
Originally posted by aorta
The stinking dog pulls the daylights out of me though, tried every harness etc, but he is a good buddy, most of the time.
Smart dog. He's saying "come on, just ignore the pain and keep up with me!" Listen to his advice  |
| aorta |
Posted - 06/22/2005 : 11:22:18
fred thanks for the support.
i do try to do some positive things, but many times im just going through the motions. I would love to take the dog out and enjoy it more, i play with my daughter but unfortunately my mind is elsewhere.
But i do try.
The stinking dog pulls the daylights out of me though, tried every harness etc, but he is a good buddy, most of the time.
thanks
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| Fredarm57 |
Posted - 06/22/2005 : 09:31:45
Aorta: I just read through this thread and found something encouraging in one of you recent posts. You went for a walk with your dog yesterday, you made a good amount of money, had a couple of good talks with your daughter and played a game with her. These are all good things! Try to focus on doing a few of these good things each day, despite whatever level of pain you are in. When you take your dog for a walk, find a nice place to sit down and talk to him or her. Dogs are great listeners! When I'm feeling down, I sometimes have a good long talk with my Wheaten Terrier, Riley, and its a great help. As far as suicidal thoughts go, yes, I've had those too from time to time. What brings me back is the realization that, however much of a mess I happen to be in, my kids need me, and it would totally mess them up if I checked out. Your daughter needs you too! Try to be there for her each day. Try to focus on the present. Don't worry about what level of pain you will be in tomorrow. Anxiety is future-oriented. Try to find a good psychotherapist--a psychologist or licensed social worker who will listen and not just throw medication at you. If your current therapist isn't working, try to find one who will. Most importantly, remember that nothing lasts forever, even pain and painful emotions. |
| Dave |
Posted - 06/21/2005 : 21:38:00
I am sorry if my messages come across as harsh. That is just my style.
You say that a year ago, you were happy? That did not come across in your prior messages. If this is true, try to figure out what changed in your life just before the symptoms began -- a traumatic event, a death in the family ... something that you have not come to terms with, or something that affected you much deeper than you realize.
Perhaps you can think about it like this: you have nothing to lose. You've been to doctors and had every test in the book. You've ruled out serious illness. What do you have to lose by treating your condition as TMS? Perhaps you should stop trying to convince yourself ... stop trying to prove to yourself that it is TMS. You have nothing to lose. Accept that the symptoms are psychogenic (even if you have doubts). Ignore the pain and focus on your emotions. If you get relief then the belief will come. |
| aorta |
Posted - 06/21/2005 : 21:11:42
Dave,
please dont slap me in the face, it will send ripples of neuropathy through my shoulders and arms.
do the work. Again im just trying to figure out what that is. i know, read the books, journal, return to my regular schedule(thats a topic for a larger thread)think psychological instead of physical.
o.k. im leaping, but i dont know where.
Its rather hard to enjoy life like this, thats what makes me so damn sad. a year ago, i am a happy family man, semi successful business owner for 15 years. Musician composer, published photographer, traveler and so on. I have a pool and in the summer it was my private oasis. Last year when all this happened i went into the pool, the water bothered me and i stood there with tears in my eyes.
I love so many things out there, but when you are in so much pain,
everything you love becomes even more painful.
gotta go journal
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| Dave |
Posted - 06/21/2005 : 20:51:37
It could be this ... it could be that ... it could be a hundred things. You are intellectualizing way too much. You are trying to impose rationality on a fundamentally irrational process.
You have unrealistic expectations. Do not expect a "big click." Just make a leap of faith and do the work.
You said: "im getting the feeling people would like to see me out of here..." This is yet another example of being so hard on yourself. This thread is on fire because everybody here is trying to help. I can only speak for myself, but I certainly do not want to "see you out of here." I will admit, however, that it is extremely frustrating to read your messages. I feel like shaking you hard, giving you a slap in the face, and telling you to stop being so damn hard on yourself.
You are exhibiting all of the common personality traits of TMS sufferers, to a great extreme. You need to get a more positive attitude and stop putting yourself down. Do it for your daughter. Stop wallowing in your misery and get out there and enjoy life. |
| aorta |
Posted - 06/21/2005 : 20:51:14
You say you read the book, yet this statement is so inconsistent with Dr. Sarno's writings.
This will be my last post ... Your messages are so fundamentally anti-TMS that I'm beginning to think you're just a clever troll. If this is the case then my hat is off to you, because you've managed to contradict just about everything that Dr. Sarno says in his book.
If you are being honest, then the rest is up to you. There's nothing else anybody can say to help.
Wow Dave i didnt see this one at all. First of all im not a clever troll, or an unclever troll. Everything ive said is true, and my feelings and what is on my mind. I never said what i state or think will be in with Dr. Sarnos. Ive read the books, but i told you i recognized a lot of myself in them, but there were issues i had with some of it, and didnt know where to go to help myself. I wouldnt expect myself to be in line with Dr.Sarno. Again if youd prefer that i dont post, i wont. There are others who have posted some very nice, and good things for me to think about. So if you wish, say the word, and i will be forever repressed here that is.
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| aorta |
Posted - 06/21/2005 : 20:37:37
Dave,
It could be that the things i mentioned flared me up, but it could also be that thinking about sad times when im ill just made things worse.
But if this was tms, and those thoughts were connected, where would the improvement fit in. Lets put it this way, if i was feeling physically bad then realized in the back of my mind i was having feelings about that daughter seperation thing, i would make the connection. But as you point out, its subconsious and im not going to be aware of it, which leaves me in nowhereland again. Im waiting for the big click, the connection, that would make me a believer that all my physical ailments are a result of whats going on emotionally. It seems for some there is a click, for others there is not. Maybe it would be a good idea to try to think of it that way, pretend so to speak and see what happens there. How do people resolve feelings like this? Discuss them with themselves and come to a conclusion that satisfies you?
Anyway im getting the feeling people would like to see me out of here so i will become more well.. repressed.
thanks |
| Dave |
Posted - 06/21/2005 : 20:31:45
quote:
Originally posted by aorta
If im doing this to myself, ive done a good job.
You say you read the book, yet this statement is so inconsistent with Dr. Sarno's writings.
This will be my last post ... Your messages are so fundamentally anti-TMS that I'm beginning to think you're just a clever troll. If this is the case then my hat is off to you, because you've managed to contradict just about everything that Dr. Sarno says in his book.
If you are being honest, then the rest is up to you. There's nothing else anybody can say to help. |
| aorta |
Posted - 06/21/2005 : 20:26:40
Sandy,
Sorry if my sad, mad rage posts upset you. Cant blame you there.
But I guess i just had to blow it out here a bit.
As for sitting here, taking walks. I took several today including walking my pain in the ass but faithful brittany into the woods.
I didnt enjoy much of it since im always in pain but i do do it.
And in between crying and thinking of suicide, i made a decent amount of money today. I had a couple of good talks with my daughter
played a game with her and so on.
Sometimes i do nothing but pace and try to sit in a chair, but most of the time i do try.
But i have to do something to fix the problem and i dont know what it is. My experience with psycho doctors has not been good and ive been to a few. So here i am. Im in bad shape, but im still trying. |
| Dave |
Posted - 06/21/2005 : 20:21:38
quote:
Originally posted by aorta
For whatever reason im feeling very physically bad now.
It is not uncommon when first learning about TMS for your brain to increase the severity of the symptoms.
You completely discount the fact that just maybe the symptoms have increased because you are starting to think about difficult emotions. It is almost as if you are trying not to believe in TMS.
It is clear that you are not at the point where you can accept the TMS concept. It is too bad, because it is pretty clear that this is your problem. I hope that you are successful in adjusting your negative attitude. |
| ssjs |
Posted - 06/21/2005 : 19:41:54
I knew exactly what you mean about being locked away. But still, they are thoughts of punishing yourself. Of course I do not believe you are giving yourself the pain, but now it is time to stop! Stop these sad, scared, angry posts and keep a few things in mind
1- You cannot keep doing the same thing, and still expect things to be different.
Stop theses crying painful posts, and get out and take a walk.
Change things!
2- in order to be truely independant you have to be able to depend on someone. Even if you have to pay for it...go out and find a real person. Someone who has the training to help you. Not a message board.
3- only you can control your life. stop trying to give a million reasons, and find a million reasons why you can't.
Am I being harsh? I am sure you will see it that way...
But I was actually paralyized at one time along my sciatic nerve. The pain was horrible. I couldn't look anyone in the face without tears in my eyes. I couldn't move my foot. It didn't move no matter what my brain told it.
Then I found Dr. Sarno, and stopped trying to find reasons why his methods didn't work. I let go and got psycotherapy, and actually acted on the things my therapist told me, and my life changed for the better. way better. No pain now for almost 20 years. Plenty of problems...but no pain...and as for those problems...I work them out, and I am a better person for it.
Come on! You CAN do it. But you've got to stop this crying and punishment first.
You didn't do anything. You do not deserve punishment. You do not deserve to be locked up. You deserve to be healthy!
Sandy
One more thing...I know alot of people are into this journaling thing...but you are already so stuck in the muck of your life...maybe that is not the best thing for you. You are just so STUCK! You need to get away from yourself! DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT WITH YOUR LIFE!!!! |
| aorta |
Posted - 06/21/2005 : 16:06:19
sandy,
when i mention being locked away, its only because im so terrified of being hospitalized, experimented on so to speak, laying on a hospital bed watching every second go by, away from my family. God only knows how long it would take to diagnose what is wrong with me, ive tried a lot. Did the whole g.i. tract almost, and i still have nasty problem with my bowel movements.
Im afraid of these things because in over a year i havent improved, and i cant take it anymore. I cant take pain pills because of the g.i. tract.i take a small antidepressant that doesnt help, and xanax as needed. What could do this to someone and not show up? Blood in the stool and they cant see anything with scopes. My muscles burn , my feet burn, and all my joints pop and crackle.
If im doing this to myself, ive done a good job.
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| aorta |
Posted - 06/21/2005 : 15:49:45
For whatever reason im feeling very physically bad now. You guys might say from writing about those incidents. I dont really think so.
My symptoms are scaring the crap out of me, and that i cant be my old self. As you can see i love my daughter, and these afflictions remind me that i cant do the things i want to with her, then depression sets in. My shrink thinks all this is interesting as well but we never get anywhere. Maybe im kidding myself here.It seems the PT i had this week was too much for me. I went from lifting weights every week, to being a cripple.They had me work my lower back and now im burning everywhere and not in a good way. Im too afraid to face mri's, emg, spinal taps and the possible solutions they come up with.Maybe its lyme, maybe its celiac disease, maybe there is cancer somewhere. who knows. you guys dont know for sure either. But it is destroying me, my spirit is so low, and all i can do is think of my daughter and cry.I was a happy man.
I might not come here much, it could be adding memory pain to the other pains i have.Please dont quote anything from here, im at the bottom.
thanks,
sorry. i will try the journal |
| ssjs |
Posted - 06/21/2005 : 15:26:32
If, in fact, you are not angry about anything, then why are your thoughts all about you being punished? Being locked away. For sure, you are angry, and you are taking it out on yourself.
Take it from me, a person who thought everything was perfect....before i really knew!
Sandy |
| Carolyn |
Posted - 06/21/2005 : 15:11:20
Did you write in your journal last night? You don't say so so I'm guessing you didn't. Why not? Think about it. You asked how to get started. Just start. It's what we call 'doing the work'. If you don't do it, you can argue about it forever (which is starting to seem like your intent) but you will see no change in yourself so you will have no reason to believe and you will not get better.
You just came up with a traumatic event from your past that you acknowledge you might have been pissed about but didn't express it. STart with that. Write about it and the details of how you felt at the time. I often found that feeling the emotion connected to an event like that and sitting with it for a moment might bring to mind another time you felt that same way and then you are off and journaling. I got Schecter's workbook when I first started (I can't find it right now but I'm sure someone here can tell you where to get it). I found it helpful because I also wasn't sure how to get started and couldn't really see how it would help me. The workbook seems like there is not much substance to it but it was not very expensive and if it's the kick in the butt you need- it is money well spent. It tells you what to journal about everynight for several weeks. It starts with why you think you fit the TMS profile and moves on from there. Do not expect to get the workbook and suddenly see the light. It asks sort of straightforward obvious questions but that's because the answer to curing TMS pain is simple and straightforward. I think that is your problem- you are WAY overthinking this. You are asking for instructions for a complicated process. Well there is none. There is read the book, write in your journal, and attempt to consciously experience your emotions as you experience them (rather than saving them for 'later') or whenever your symptoms are acting up. Why aren't you giving it a try? Maybe you have other issues going on and you in fact 'need' your pain for some other reasons.
Carolyn |
| johnnyg |
Posted - 06/21/2005 : 14:58:21
aorta said: "And i really dont think down deep there is anything going on say when im worse physically.The things i mentioned lead up to my panic attack, but now i dont see any rage down there on a daily basis, but i will try to think about it. i dont think i carry those things i mentioned around anymore, if i do, i dont know they are there and its pretty hard to get rid of something you cant sense a presence of"
I know that you are being helped by the board based on your posts, and I have benefited immensely as well. We all need to think about what may cause our rage. But you still seem to be missing every major point of TMS theory after the fourth page of this thread has started. Before learning about TMS everyone thinks they have a physical problem, and no one sees their "rage down there on a daily basis" because it is UNCONSCIOUS, UNCONSCIOUS UNCONSCIOUS. And you don't have to "get rid" of the rage to get better, you just have to know about it. |
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