| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Marilyn |
Posted - 06/15/2005 : 13:17:37
I have a question about Tension Myositis Syndrome. I am sure I have this condition. My personality profile fits it to a "T" in that I am a perfectionist and a "goodist". I was emotionally abused as a child and was married for 35 years to a narcissistic alcoholic who took his anger out on me.
I have had back problems since I was 18 years old which were relieved temporarily by chiropractic adjustment. I have gotten a divorce and have devoted much time and effort to healing my back via chiropractor, massage, and acupressure.
In the material I have read about TMS, it says that back pain is exacerbated by conscious stress. However, I have noticed in the last several years, that my back hurts worse when I am more relaxed. When I am very tense, I don't feel much of anything, but when I relax I feel pain and stiffness. My question is: why would this be happening?
Thank you.
Marilyn |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| ssjs |
Posted - 06/23/2005 : 07:33:52
Sometimes I get angry that all kinds of therapys that really do not work are out there to distract people from what the real deal is. I won't say more about that! I talk too much to begin with!
For you, it seems you have found a therapy that you are comfortable with.
One thing I know though, that if you found the right therapist, you do not have to go through everything to get better. Just know it is there trying to do it's dirty work!
I am sorry that things were so bad for you. I can relate. I was lucky to marry a good guy...but my early years were pretty bad.
Just keep on working at it!
Sandy
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| Marilyn |
Posted - 06/22/2005 : 17:11:28
[quote]Originally posted by ssjs
Marilyn,
All of my emotions have to be addressed conscious, and unconscious! When I get a twinge, I immediatly go through what is bothering me. I actually start complaining in my head...actually wallow...in anything that might be remotly responsible...or not...and the pain goes away. I wouldn't want to have to make an appointment to do that!
Sandy,
It's good you sound sure of yourself, and you deserve to as you seem to have gotten a good handle on eliminating your pain. The only thing I wonder is why you are so opposed to getting a massage or having acupressure. It seems to touch something sensitive inside you when I write about it.
I went through the same thing you did in your childhood, and I also was married to an alcoholic who took his anger out on me, although not physically. So I totally know I have much repressed anger, plus I created a "shield" of very tight constricted muscles around my body to "protect" myself. My therapist pointed this out. I was the type who never thought about myself first and always sacrificed for my family and friends. Although I have had lots of muscle tension and tightness, I never really had bad pain. It has gotten worse now that I have worked on getting rid of the stuff I bured for so many years. That is why I think I have TMS............my unconscious is afraid now that so many emotions are bubbling near the surface so it is trying hard to distract me.
If I had to actually work through all the anger, fear, and hurt I have buried, it would take me longer than I have left to live, I'm sure. So, if I can get rid of some of it quickly through acupressure, it makes sense to me to do that. I also find great help in the hands-on part of it, because it is comforting and soothing, probably to my inner child, the part that my mother hurt so much. Finally, the fact that I am willing to indulge myself in this way is a big step toward putting myself first.
There are many ways to approach healing, and there are many variations of all the things that happened to us and the way we reacted to them. If the hands-on approach doesn't appeal to you, there's nothing wrong with that. It might help some other people, who knows? I feel like it benefits me, actually more than the psychiatrist or psychologist, who also have helped me deal with all of this.
Take care, and continue what you are doing, as it sounds like you have been able to effectively deal with your pain. Way to go!!
Marilyn |
| ssjs |
Posted - 06/21/2005 : 08:59:03
Marilyn,
All of my emotions have to be addressed conscious, and unconscious! When I get a twinge, I immediatly go through what is bothering me. I actually start complaining in my head...actually wallow...in anything that might be remotly responsible...or not...and the pain goes away. I wouldn't want to have to make an appointment to do that!
Sometimes I think when I write, I sound like I am too sure of myself. I apologize for that. But i have really beaten this thing without having to rely on someone else...in a way.
OK, it is true that I have been going to a therapist on and off for 16 years, and she helps me get at thought and emotions that I couldn't without her....and I have paid her a small fortune...but still, I feel that it is me doing the work!
I walked into her office 16 years ago thinking I had the very best parents, and realzed that I was soooo wrong, and because of that have missed so much time in reaching my potential, something I will never reach, because I am just not the person I would have been if I had not been so neglected...well, that makes me so angry! But I understand, and can take action to still be the best I can be...and KNOW the proper way to parent my children, so they do not have the same problem. And build a business, and finish school, which I had dropped out of years ago.
If I had been getting deep tissue massage...how would I have learned this...these intricacies, even if my pain went away? How would I have really learned how to change my life, and build up on what I had learned? And build a good life out of my lethargic miserable former one? Would deep tissue massage have done this?
Sandy |
| Marilyn |
Posted - 06/20/2005 : 21:59:49
quote:
Originally posted by ssjs
Anything is wonderful when it works...and looking into my unconsious, and not trying to get around it, truely facing it head on, has made me a better person in general.
Sandy
It's the CONSCIOUS you get around.........not your unconscious. The talk therapist is helping me deal with the conscious emotions which aren't that painful. The accupressurist helps me deal with the emotions repressed for many years in my unconscious. Those are the ones that are painful and hard to bring up.............the very emotions that our brains "invent" TMS to keep hidden. |
| ssjs |
Posted - 06/20/2005 : 19:01:22
I am glad it works for you, but just like some people think I am nuts when I point out Dr Sarnos theorys...I just can't buy the accupressure stuff.
Anything is wonderful when it works...and looking into my unconsious, and not trying to get around it, truely facing it head on, has made me a better person in general.
As they said in the Beatle movie, "Help"... "I am sure we can agree to differ"
Sandy |
| Marilyn |
Posted - 06/20/2005 : 14:15:24
quote]Sorry, that is my opinion...but all of these manipulations done by others to you do not do a damn bit of good in the long run if you do not do your own work. It is just an easy way out, and easy ways rarely work long term.
Sandy
Believe me........you do the work. The acupressurist helps you in the same way a psychiatrist helps you, plus she validates you. (that it is emotions and not something physically wrong.) I went to my therapist wanting to get in touch with my unconscious emotions. He told me I didn't have to worry about that, because the acupressure work was totally circumventing my conscious and targeting the repressed emotions. They really hurt when they are coming up. I am not much of a crier, but I cry when I allow the emotions to surface. The acupressurist just helps the process.
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| johnnyg |
Posted - 06/20/2005 : 12:00:34
I meant that the concepts should be kept simple--in that a statement like "all massages must be a physical treatment and therefore avoided" is simple. I don't think it's quite so simple, but it is easier to follow a black and white rule. The treatment obviously is never simple. |
| ssjs |
Posted - 06/20/2005 : 11:36:52
quote:
it should be kept simple and I agree with you on that.
I never said it should be kept simple. I think that going through the mind is the very very very hardest thing of all to do!
Well, off to the shrink! A never ending journey!
Sandy |
| johnnyg |
Posted - 06/20/2005 : 11:27:42
You make a good point, but it's not the feeling good of the massage that is the key, it is the release of the emotion. If you have a massage to increase blood flow because you think your muscles are damaged then that is bad. I don't think TMS recoverers should get massages because it could lead us back into "physical" thinking. But on the other hand, I don't think that a release of emotions is only valid as a result of talking to someone (as in psychotherapy). It seems possible that a valid release of emotions can occur as a result of a physical touch (as in acupressure or a hug), thus helping to the extent that the emotions won't be repressed or possibly that previously unconscious emotions have now become conscious. This is really pushing the boudaries of TMS therapy though, it should be kept simple and I agree with you on that. |
| ssjs |
Posted - 06/20/2005 : 10:51:57
I am not separating the two! I just think that there is more to it all than getting that hug! It is how your mind reacts to the hug! If you need a hug, and someone you may have an issue with hugs you, that hug might not be so comforting, even if it is meant to be, by someone you should be happy about.
I am just saying that in my opinion, you have got to work on your mind to get your body straight. Sarno says to think psychologically! And that is what I do.
I was also at a lecture once where Dr. Sarno said that exercises for the back were a waste of time...UNLESS you were just doing it to look good, and be generally healthyer. I think that is a similar thing. exercise might be something that is good for you and will help you to lead a better life, but it is not a cure for back pain. The way you think; is the key.
But if something else works better for you...and if that massage makes you feel better on any level...go to it!
Sandy |
| johnnyg |
Posted - 06/20/2005 : 10:17:59
OK, ssjs, so if someone you love were to give you a hug in a time of crisis and you burst out cring, you would call that a physical manipulation? The brain is only the organ of the mind--it sends and recieves all the signals, but that doesn't mean "mind" is found no where else in the body. It sounds like eastern mysticism, but that is the concept Dr. Sarno leads to when citing the scientific study done by candice Pert in MBP.
It sounds like maybe you didn't read Mindbody Prescription. In MBP, Doc Sarno took out the hyphen between mind-body and made it ONE word--mindbody. They can't be separated. If you separate them, you throw support to the Cartesian split between mind and body--the very concept Sarno is fighting.
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| ssjs |
Posted - 06/20/2005 : 08:27:33
I see what you are saying, but I still think that in the end, emotions are buried in our minds...even though it is our bodies that react to them...and it is easy to say that our hamstring angry and is reacting to the trauma of our not so great experiences...and it will scream it out given the right manipulations....but that is giving our bodies the say so and not our brains, and it is ultimatly our brain that gains the understanding about what actually happened.
My opinion
Sandy |
| Marilyn |
Posted - 06/20/2005 : 02:54:49
quote:
Originally posted by ssjs
It isn't even that i think that massage is just a physical treatment for stress. It is just that i do not believe that any kind of phsical manipulations can give long term hope to a tms cure!
Your repressed emotions are in your head...just presenting themselves in your back or foot or whatever...but nontheless, they are in your head! so the head must be worked on.
Sandy
I believe that the buried and repressed emotions are actually buried in our bodies, not in our heads. I know people who can feel a pain in their body, meditate, and "see" what trauma, emotion, etc. is causing it. I believe our bodies "splint" around buried emotions just like they splint around a bone that is broken or a joint that is sprained, because the brain doesn't know the difference between a physical trauma or an emotional trauma. |
| marytabby |
Posted - 06/19/2005 : 09:16:58
"However, I have noticed in the last several years, that my back hurts worse when I am more relaxed. When I am very tense, I don't feel much of anything, but when I relax I feel pain and stiffness. My question is: why would this be happening?"
The reason you feel the pain come on when you are relaxed, calm is because when you were in the midst of the crisis, trouble, etc. your brain was already distracted enough, it didn't need more to keep the issues at bay. When you relax, your brain is scared you might start thinking about things, figuring out the jig, getting to the bottom of it all. That's when it throws a pain your way to keep you good and distracted from the emotional stuff.
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| ssjs |
Posted - 06/18/2005 : 10:36:11
It isn't even that i think that massage is just a physical treatment for stress. It is just that i do not believe that any kind of phsical manipulations can give long term hope to a tms cure!
Your repressed emotions are in your head...just presenting themselves in your back or foot or whatever...but nontheless, they are in your head! so the head must be worked on.
Sandy |
| johnnyg |
Posted - 06/17/2005 : 09:58:25
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by ssjs
I wouldn't want anyone to get rid of my anger by using accupressure...just like any other placebo, it will all come back if you do not do it yourself with your own work!
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This could be a hasty conclusion. I have talked to massage therapists who routinely experience people's emotional catharsis after a deep tissue massage (or whatever type of massage is being done) This may not be all that different from release of emotions (ie. unconscious emotions emotions entering into consciousness) during psychotherapy. Remember that if our minds and bodies truly are one, and that "mind" exists throughtout the body (remember Candice Pert's research), then it is entirley possible that what seems like a physical treatment (a massage) really ends up being an emotional one. I think everyone is just assuming that a massage always has to be lumped into the category of a physcial treatment--I understand the reason for that, I just think it doesn't always have to be that simple. |
| Dave |
Posted - 06/17/2005 : 08:52:43
quote:
Originally posted by ssjs
I wouldn't want anyone to get rid of my anger by using accupressure...just like any other placebo, it will all come back if you do not do it yourself with your own work!
I couldn't agree more.
The primary concept of TMS is that it is not a physical problem. If you seek any treatment that reinforces the idea that there is a structural issue that needs to be addressed, it hinders recovery, even if that treatment does offer short-term relief. |
| ssjs |
Posted - 06/17/2005 : 07:02:37
I wouldn't want anyone to get rid of my anger by using accupressure...just like any other placebo, it will all come back if you do not do it yourself with your own work!
I think psycho therapy is often nessessary, but that is working with your own thoughts...not having someone work on you!
Sorry, that is my opinion...but all of these manipulations done by others to you do not do a damn bit of good in the long run if you do not do your own work. It is just an easy way out, and easy ways rarely work long term.
Sandy |
| Marilyn |
Posted - 06/16/2005 : 02:55:04
Thanks, Steve. Validation is always valuable and will come in handy when the doubts come.
I would recommend to anyone having trouble getting in touch with the unconscious rage (if you're having trouble healing and need to go deeper) to see an acupressurist. When you "allow" them to move the buried stuff out, it is quite dramatic..........and painful, but it's good to get it out. |
| smwalker |
Posted - 06/15/2005 : 23:49:45
Marilyn, your question reminded me of another post on this forum:
http://tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=242&SearchTerms=hurricane
Hurricanes Heal TMS
In my own case I though it was my job causing my back pain, so i quit, though that would cure it, only got worse with me staying home all day with all the time in the world to reflect on my life.
So your observations are not far off from the norm.
Steve Walker
Steve@capriceshop.com |
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