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art
1903 Posts |
 Posted - 05/19/2005 : 11:25:06
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Perhaps this isn't the place, but on the other hand, if I can't talk about it here, then where?
Here's the thing. I think we all travel similar roads in that we're confronted with an injury, then we learn about TMS and decide to take that leap of faith...But it can't always be TMS...Sometimes an injury is truly an injury..
I can't believe that with the popularity of the books, plus Howard Stern publicity etc. etc. that someone hasn't gone out and made himself substantially worse..
Has anyone heard of, or perhaps themselves had such an experience? |
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Baseball65
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2005 : 19:36:46
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Art,your having a thought that virtually every TMSer has to overcome.
No,NO ONE has gotten worse.
also....you probably listen to Stern...most of us DON'T.I regularly hear from people when I tell them how I recovered "Oh...that's the guy Stern talks about" and I answer "Uhhh....I guess"
Stern worked himself into obscurity in the last few years.....gotta change your jokes every decade or so!!
But NO,I have never,ever heard of someone who got worse and I know a bunch of people with different "injuries" who have perfectly logical structural reasons why they are in pain.They have ALL healed using the book.
There's two ways to look at it...biological or spiritual.
If you believe in evolution,than it would be scientifically unfeasable for us to be de-evolving.We the spinally disintegrating are losing our spot on the top of the food chain.
If you believe in God,than the injury myth implies he made a mistake or an inferior product....
Either way....injuries heal...TMS doesn't.
I had TWO root canals in the last two weeks and only had pain for 1 day....I broke my arm and never had pain except for the day I broke it....which injuries are causing you pain??
peace
Baseball65 |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2005 : 19:50:46
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Thanks Baseball...You're right of course that I ask the question out
of my own fear, which is substantial a lot of the time...
Still, it's hard to imagine that someone somewhere with, say an actually badly torn rotator cuff, hasn't read a Sarno book and decided to go out and do something like pitch nine innings without sustaining further injury...
Actually, now that I've given the above example, it reminds me that I sometimes think of professional athletes...those guys are hurt all the time...some are TMS of course, who knows, maybe even most, but obviously some of them are the real structural deal...
For some reason Trot Nixon pops into my mind...Last year he was driving to Florida to get to spring training and when he got out of the car his back was gone...it took him weeks and mayve even months to come back.I don't remember all the details...I think there might have been another injury involved..Anyway, I wonder what Trots outcome would have been had he instead of going to thr trainer, just read a Sarno book and decided to tough it out...
I'm not at all trying to be negative here...perhaps he very will might have healed and done so more quickly had he gone the Sarno route...But you understand what I'm trying to say I'm sure...
Maybe a related question would be what does a TMS examination consist of? Does a TMS doc ever take any x-rays or mri's?
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marytabby
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2005 : 06:54:44
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Art,
The TMS exam consists of a physical exam, very similar to one you'd have in any physical therapist's office or other orthopedic doc's office. Walk on your heels, walk on your toes, bend forward, bend back, bend sideways, turn your head to left then the right, up then down, etc. There are no xrays taken, but they will look at your xrays and MRI's if you bring them. Incidentally, I saw doctor Martinez in Dedham. You asked in a different posting who I saw in MA and I forgot to tell you who it was. His exam was exactly like all the other specialists I have seen. He then looked at my films and disagreed with all the stuff that the chiros and orthos said about my spine "problems". He said all my stuff was TMS, including the wrists, which I have treated with cortisone shots under the guise of tendinitis. I think there are definitely real injuries people sustain, such as torn rotator, as you mentioned, or ligament/tendon damage from falls, etc. I guess the only way to know for sure is if it does not heal, then you can wonder if it may be TMS, since Sarno says injuries heal in 1-2 months at most. I tend to think TMS whenever something pops up with me, because I do not have any injuries to speak of. I know the difference. I also know the difference between straining myself at the gym and feeling the muscle burn the next day, and feeling tense neck pain that comes on out of nowhere, when I have not been to the gym. That much I am certain I can ascertain now. I used to think the tension and pulling was from overuse. Now I know better. By the way, I listen to Howard EVERY morning in my car. I find him silly and immature at times, but nonetheless honest and sarcastic, which I tend to gravitate towards with people in general. I also listen to Jay Severin opn my ride home, who is the total opposite of Howard and probably thinks Howard is a buffoon. I get benefit from both extremes of personalities. I get my entertainment/laughability value from Howard and my political and world events education from Jay. I think I'm a well rounded person culturally and politically and I have both of them to thank for that! By the way, both personalities are pretty "narcissistic" if you ask me. But then again, so am I at times so that's probably why I like them. Tee hee heee.  |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2005 : 11:52:52
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Mary,
That's very interesting...I'm not nearly as far along as you in being able to tell the difference..Most of my stuff seems real...a definite tangible traceable result of some set of circumstances or changing condition that seem, in retrospect, conducive to that exact type injury...That's why I have such difficulty sometimes..My last injurt was patellar tendinitis brought on...seemingly...by different running shoes and increased mileage...Something like that is very difficult to think of as TMS..
Would you say that any supposed injury that has not healed in two months then is probably TMS? That would simplify things greatly. |
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marytabby
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2005 : 12:09:38
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| Well, according to Sarno it would be TMS because the body has a very strong ability to heal itself on its own if it's a true injury. Then again, suppose, like someone I know, a person injures themself and doesn't rest it? He ended up with shoulder surgery last week because he didn't rest it and it kept tearing. The surgeon said when he went in to do minor stitching up there was way more muscle damage done than what was anticipated. So he's got quite a recovery ahead of him, all from not resting the initial injury to begin with. It was a true injury, not a TMS thing. So to say EVERYTHING is TMS is not always the case but in some cases, yes. I sprained or hurt my achilles tendon years ago in a weight toning class at the gym. Stupid instructor never told us the right posture to do squats. My achilles was killing me from over using it with really bad squat positions using weights in both hands. That achilles DID heal on its own in a few months time. So that much I agree with. |
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polly
127 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2005 : 19:52:34
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Art,
5 weeks ago I had hip replacement surgery. I developed avascular necrosis which made an elective operation an emergency. I also had a cyst above the hip joint that was wrapped around the sciatic nerve. The radiologist, doctor and nurses couldn't believe that I was still standing on it.
My recovery was nothing short of remarkable...to a non TMS person. I was off and on the bed on my own (to the horror of the nursing staff) in 3 days. I was walking without any aid in under 2 weeks. I was pain free the day after surgery.
I have also been diagnosed with 3 severely herniated discs and spinal stenosis. I've never had a backache. I have severe arthritis in the other hip and will watch it closely, but I won't do anything until I have no other choice.
I believe that my hips are so bad because a moror doctor conviced me to have my knees replaced 2 yrs. ago and it aggravated my hip problem. The knees were done before I knew about TMS. I didn't make myself worse. The conflicting diagnosis that is so common did. I made myself strong to deal with the medical things I had to. I truly believe that we don't and can't get worse from understanding TMS.
Medicine serves a purpose. It's up to us to decide what that purpose is. It's up to the medical community to call everything a severe problem and make money.
btw, Howard Stern is a terrible spokesman for Sarno.
Just my 2 cents. Hope you're feeling great. Read everything that you can, especially stuff from Baseball. He's got the best handle on this stuff.
Polly
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2005 : 14:12:43
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Hi Polly,
Glad to hear you are doing great, I was wondering how you were doing.
I agree with you 100%. We are all ultimately responsible for our health decisions, (as long as we are conscious that is). It is very difficult to go against the tide of current medicine and not be talked into the quick surgical fix.
TMS thinking is a valuable tool to allow us to evaluate the various choices presented to us. I'm still grappling with the last dx (by a TMS doctor) that my hip is NOT TMS and should be replaced. I'm open to that possibility maybe someday, but also that he may be wrong too and I can fix it myself. No hurry.
Best wishes.
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polly
127 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2005 : 10:02:31
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Tom,
I think about your hip a lot. I used you as a barometer in many ways. Your strength and determination are quite admirable.
I grappled hard with having the surgery even after it turned from elective to necessity. I wasn't sure I was going to do it until the last day.
I know this isn't a good place for this, but I can send you the info on the surgeon who operated on me. He has really perfected the minimally invasive route...my surgery took 40 mins. He also doesn't do anything unless it's necessary. The cyst is still there. He felt it was too invasive to try and remove it. He was able to get the sciatic nerve free and I have no problem with it.
I'm not sorry I didn't do this earlier. Everything has it's time. For you, I would recommend getting xrays every few months and watching it. The problem that sent me to surgery developed quickly. The xrays were 2 months apart. I know this smacks in the face of TMS thinking, but there are things that need medical attention.
Hope you're having pain free days and great serves.
Polly |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2005 : 19:15:05
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Thanks Polly. Sure, send me the info on your surgeon. If I decide to go the replacement route someday, a good surgeon would help. After all you've been through with your knees, I think you know a good surgeon when you see one. You can post it here in case anyone else is interested or e-mail me.
I think it's good to keep an open mind to whatever works. TMS thinking is a very valuable tool for mindbody health. I guess-timate that 80-90% of what ails people is TMS and can be remedied through non-invasive methods. Some things like your hip and perhaps mine may need something else after TMS methods have been attempted. It's a shame there aren't more doctors schooled in TMS theory who can help us sort out what is what.
I had a good practice today. My serve is pretty good, it is my weapon. I work on my technique and strategy with a good coach to compenstate for being a step slow. Today I was working on improving my vision. This will enable me to see the ball sooner to get a jump on setting up for my return.
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polly
127 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2005 : 20:45:41
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Tom,
Yes, I think I found a decent surgeon...and that sounds like an oxymoron to me.
I know that people come from all over the country to see him. I also know that he refuses to operate on 80% of all the patients he sees. He has some knowledge of TMS and feels that surgery is NOT the answer all the time. He also works in third world countries and trains doctors from all over the world. He is kind of special and very aware of that fact.
http://www.ortho-spine.com/index.html
The doctor I used is Robert Zann.
I'm hoping you or anyone else here doesn't need the link, but I've spoken to so many of his patients and we've all had remarkable outcomes.
Keep swinging. In 6 weeks I get lessons on how to play tennis and golf with this new gizmo. I am so psyched.
Polly |
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