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wilcox2969
USA
23 Posts |
 Posted - 12/14/2015 : 19:17:38
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Hi, I'm new to this forum and also new to the idea of tms and I have a few questions. First, some general info about me. I have low back and hip pain predominantly on my right side and I've had it for years on and off. Now it is pretty much constant. Over the years I have been to multiple docs and chiros with little to no real success. Early yrs were easier to deal with, but now it's difficult. I'm not sure if what I have is tms but since all the docs tell me that I'm fine other than some early arthritis (I'm 40), everything is ship shape. Other than all the constant pain I'm in...
I have read Dr soranos book and it really made a lot of sense to me for the most part, but there is one thing that I am dealing with that he doesn't address and so far no one I've been to has any answers about. That thing is "popping" in my spine when I bend forward. This is not cavitation as described by chiros. It literally pops without any reason when I bend forward and also makes me think it is the prime source of my pain. I just don't know if this can be attributed to tms. I have a lot of anxiety associated with it as well. I am yet to hear any answers on this condition but I have read (even on this forum) a few stories of people with the same condition. ANY advise is welcome, I will process it to see if it fits into my personal equation. Thanks!
AW. |
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fredamir
87 Posts |
Posted - 12/15/2015 : 06:36:22
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Welcome AW!
Can you climb stairs?
Fred Amir
www.rapidrecovery.net
"Live Pain-Free and Achieve Optimum Health" begins 01/16/2016
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wilcox2969
USA
23 Posts |
Posted - 12/15/2015 : 07:01:58
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No, going up or down steps without any issues. I just a dull ache and weakness along my spine and I really notice it if I try and lift anything over 50 lbs. That combined with popping and a feeling of looseness
AW. |
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fredamir
87 Posts |
Posted - 12/15/2015 : 11:07:17
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Since your body can handle taking you up the stairs that means you are structurally fine. And that is great news!
Do not let the popping sound bother you or scare you. I had similar issues and worse when I was going through my pain and disability.
Just keep reminding yourself that if you can climb stairs you are stronger than your symptoms.
Fred Amir
www.rapidrecovery.net
"Live Pain-Free and Achieve Optimum Health" begins 01/16/2016
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andy64tms
USA
589 Posts |
Posted - 12/15/2015 : 13:33:14
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Hi Abe,
I am 67 and have dealt with lower back and neck for years. My neck “grumbles ” when I turn my head side to side, same with my lower back when I do pelvic tilt. I have accepted this as my “norm’ possibly tied to arthritis or tight ligaments. In both cases my back pain improves with what I call “massive amounts of exercise”- windsurfing. If only I could windsurf every day instead of the 3 months of summer!! I believe clicking - gritting and grumbling joints are age related perhaps tied to arthritis. In Healing Back Pain Dr. Sarno mentioned creaking joints as normal, I think he used the term clicking.
Good luck
Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Charlie Horse on neck for 20 years, is almost gone.
Books:
Healing Back Pain
Unlearn your Pain
The Great Pain Deception |
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wilcox2969
USA
23 Posts |
Posted - 12/15/2015 : 19:36:13
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quote:
Originally posted by fredamir
Since your body can handle taking you up the stairs that means you are structurally fine. And that is great news!
Do not let the popping sound bother you or scare you. I had similar issues and worse when I was going through my pain and disability.
Just keep reminding yourself that if you can climb stairs you are stronger than your symptoms.
Fred Amir
www.rapidrecovery.net
"Live Pain-Free and Achieve Optimum Health" begins 01/16/2016
I would hope that to be the case. I just can't understand that if it truly is tms, why does it not subside with activity like Sarno says it should? If anything it seems to get worse and muscles get tighter.
AW. |
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fredamir
87 Posts |
Posted - 12/15/2015 : 19:59:48
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That's part of how TNSvworks AW. It can manifest itself in all kinds of ways. There is no absolute pattern to it.
YOU have to decide if you are willing to accept the TMS diagnosis. What I have seen is that people who follow my Rapud Recovery plan see improvements quickly enough to realize their pain is from tension and finally accept the TMS diagnosis. For permanent relief that is the key.
Fred Amir
www.rapidrecovery.net
Free Rapid Recovery Workshop 01/13/16
https://www.eventbrite.com/e/rapid-recovery-from-back-and-neck-pain-tickets-19988606460 |
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wilcox2969
USA
23 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2015 : 11:49:33
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quote:
Originally posted by fredamir
That's part of how TNSvworks AW. It can manifest itself in all kinds of ways. There is no absolute pattern to it.
YOU have to decide if you are willing to accept the TMS diagnosis. What I have seen is that people who follow my Rapud Recovery plan see improvements quickly enough to realize their pain is from tension and finally accept the TMS diagnosis. For permanent relief that is the key.
Fred Amir
www.rapidrecovery.net
Free Rapid Recovery Workshop 01/13/16
https://www.eventbrite.com/e/rapid-recovery-from-back-and-neck-pain-tickets-19988606460
I don't know if what I have is tight muscles/tendons or loose muscles/tendons. At any rate I am yet to get an explanation on what it may be. Some therapists have said it's tightness others have disagreed with that idea. Either way I'm at a loss and can't seen to get past it.
AW. |
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andy64tms
USA
589 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2015 : 12:32:28
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Hi Abe,
In my opinion a tendon is basically a heavy duty muscle. Both can be loose or tight depending on your physical activity, this is normal. Tension is a little different in that it is just your brain’s activity causing it. I have aptly nicknamed my tension in my neck “Charlie”. Charlie can be a hard muscle mass. I use massage to sooth it, but more importantly Charlie is an indicator that I am angry, anxious and an indicator to revise my way of thinking.
TMS tension is described as minute oxygen starvation in the muscles and tendons that causes pain. Nothing to do with looseness or tightness, or even clicking! It is the nature of TMS to keep you questioning.
I would try Fred’s workshop.
Good luck
Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Charlie Horse on neck for 20 years, is almost gone.
Books:
Healing Back Pain
Unlearn your Pain
The Great Pain Deception |
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wilcox2969
USA
23 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2015 : 16:49:51
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I understand what you are saying but I don't really understand tms. The thing that I am having a hard time with is the vast amount of symptoms it seems to cover. That is why I don't know if what I have is tms or not. Since reading Sarno's book on tms I have gotten an idea of it based on how he describes it. Basically it's tense muscles and soft tissues due to underlying subconscious stress. But the more that I read about it from other sources outside of what Sarno writes, it seems that people are just calling any thing wrong with body (especially pertaining to joint pains) "tms". That is what I am trying to get at, what is real clinical tms as described by Sarno and what is not. I have a very specific issue and one that the docs, so far, have been able to explain and as much as I would love to believe that it's tms, I can't just default to that without being sure. Not all of Sarno's patients were cured. His success rates were in the high 80s, which is good but where does that leave the other 12%? I have what I believe to be a laxity issue, which from what I read in his book, does not fit into the tms profile. If tms is the problem, which is muscle tightening, how could it do the opposite if it is TRUE tms? If I am missing something, please someone explain where I am wrong. I am just trying to figure this thing out just as we all are but I don't want to be going down a path that has no real resolve.
AW. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2015 : 16:58:21
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"...there are so many things little and big that are tms, I wouldn't have time to write about all of them": Told to icelikeaninja by Dr. Sarno
The other "12%" you refer to, who were uncured by the Good Doctor, may have needed their TMS as a PROTECTOR/defense mechanism as Dr. Sarno theorized.
==================================================
TAKE THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale
Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
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"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." Jiddu Krishnamurti
"Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional." Author Unknown
“You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation” – Plato
"Happy People Are Happy Putters." Frank Nobilo, Golf Analyst
"Be careful about reading health books. You may die of a misprint." Mark Twain and Balto
"The hot-dog is the noblest of dogs; it feeds the hand that bites it." Dr. Laurence Johnston Peter
"...the human emotional system was not designed to endure the mental rigors of a tennis match." Dr. Allen Fox
"Where ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise" - Thomas Gray
"All my friends in Los Angeles are the sensitive type. They all have like all the diseases like Chronic Fatigue, Epstien Barr, Fibromyalgia. Like all the diseases where the only symptoms seem to be you had a really crappy childhood and at the prospect of full time work ya feel kinda achy and tired."
Posted by Skizzik @ TMSHelp from comedian Maria Bamford
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"If it ends with "itis" or "algia" or "syndrome" and doctors can't figure out what causes it, then it might be TMS." Dave the Mod
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TMS PRACTITIONERS:
John Sarno, MD
400 E 34th St, New York, NY 10016
(212) 263-6035
Dr. Sarno is now retired, if you call this number you will be referred to his associate Dr. Rashbaum.
"...there are so many things little and big that are tms, I wouldn't have time to write about all of them": Told to icelikeaninja by Dr. Sarno
Here's the TMS practitioners list from the TMS Help Forum:
http://www.tmshelp.com/links.htm
Here's a list of TMS practitioners from the TMS Wiki:
http://tmswiki.org/ppd/Find_a_TMS_Doctor_or_Therapist
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Edited by - tennis tom on 12/16/2015 17:00:57 |
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andy64tms
USA
589 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2015 : 19:31:53
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Hi Abe,
Are you by any chance an Engineer by trade? You seem to want certainties and assurances where there are sometimes none available. I now understand your dilemma. Is your laxity issue- looseness of tendon TMS? I have never heard of this before, and cannot say. I would advise you to consult a TMS doctor, someone like Dr. Schubiner, who wrote a book called Unlearn your Pain. He is a medical physician who has embraced mind body and TMS. Here is a link to his web site:
http://www.unlearnyourpain.com/
Here is information about him on the TMS Wiki.
http://www.tmswiki.org/ppd/Howard_Schubiner,_MD
I believe he answers questions such as yours and be better able to explain your specific issue without bias. For now I would focus on understanding your own issue and get some assurance you have TMS.
Good Luck
Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Charlie Horse on neck for 20 years, is almost gone.
Books:
Healing Back Pain
Unlearn your Pain
The Great Pain Deception |
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wilcox2969
USA
23 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2015 : 19:46:53
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quote:
Originally posted by andy64tms
Hi Abe,
Are you by any chance an Engineer by trade? You seem to want certainties and assurances where there are sometimes none available. I now understand your dilemma. Is your laxity issue- looseness of tendon TMS? I have never heard of this before, and cannot say. I would advise you to consult a TMS doctor, someone like Dr. Schubiner, who wrote a book called Unlearn your Pain. He is a medical physician who has embraced mind body and TMS. Here is a link to his web site:
http://www.unlearnyourpain.com/
Here is information about him on the TMS Wiki.
http://www.tmswiki.org/ppd/Howard_Schubiner,_MD
I believe he answers questions such as yours and be better able to explain your specific issue without bias. For now I would focus on understanding your own issue and get some assurance you have TMS.
Good Luck
Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Charlie Horse on neck for 20 years, is almost gone.
Books:
Healing Back Pain
Unlearn your Pain
The Great Pain Deception
Well, that's kind of the problem. What defines tms? Do loose tendons define it? If it doesn't then I'm not so sure it's tms and I would be wasting my time going down this path. I have yet to see a doctor or chiropractor that will address it or diagnose it whether it's loose or tight tissues. Tight I can understand, that fits with tms as I understand it. But would tms cause tissue to become loose? Sarno didn't speak about that at all.
AW. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2015 : 22:53:05
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quote:
Originally posted by wilcox2969
...What defines tms?
...I have yet to see a doctor or chiropractor...
..But would tms cause tissue to become loose? Sarno didn't speak about that at all.
Maybe you missed my earlier post to you, so I'll downsize it, the large font may have been overpowering. The TMS gremlin has a way of making us gloss over the answers to our TMS pains. Doctor Sarno indirectly--or maybe directly answered:
"...there are so many things little and big that are tms, I wouldn't have time to write about all of them": Told to icelikeaninja by Dr. Sarno
The other "12%" you refer to, who were uncured by the Good Doctor, may have needed their TMS as a PROTECTOR/defense mechanism, as Dr. Sarno theorized.
As far as chiroquackters, the answer will be: It's your posture, buy 12 sessions, and when you use those up, we'll sell you 12 more.
Dr. Sarno doesn't talk much about the the structural, his advice is when you feel the pain, shift your thinking to the PSYCHOLOGICAL.
See the Rahe-Holmes list of life events causing TMS dis-ease, there's the science.
G'luck!
tt/lsmft
Boiler-plate: I'm a tennis player, not a white-coat so don't sue me.
See a TMS physician for a work-up to make sure it's not anything serious that needs to be treated by allopathic Descartian methods.
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andy64tms
USA
589 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2015 : 23:33:48
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Hi Abe,
Dr. Sarno, and all the wonderful TMS writers, therapists and contributors did their best to define “what is TMS?” What Tennis Tom wrote is very important, there are numerous topics discussed about TMS, too many for the individual to embrace, each of us has to make our own judgment, it’s your belief that becomes important to you for your recovery. TMS isn’t an exact science, more of a leap of faith based on your instincts. I would encourage you to not think of it as a waste of time and make contact with Dr Schubiner or Fred Amir.
Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Charlie Horse on neck for 20 years, is almost gone.
Books:
Healing Back Pain
Unlearn your Pain
The Great Pain Deception |
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alexis
USA
596 Posts |
Posted - 12/23/2015 : 06:31:17
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Wilcox,
Early and late Sarno offer different types of theories on origin. If you take the "distraction" theory and look at all the brains creative abilities (given our ability to dream and hallucinate all senses) then really it can be anything. But it will depend on which of the many ways the term "TMS" is actually used you look at. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 12/24/2015 : 11:56:20
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For the latest definition of TMS--what is and what isn't--see Dr. Sarno's last book, "THE DIVIDED MIND". Read the chapters by Drs. Sopher and Hoffman.These TMS doctors who contributed chapters to it have some excellent information on what is structural and what is TMS/psychosomatic.
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summabody
Canada
27 Posts |
Posted - 12/24/2015 : 19:36:59
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| Popping sounds can often be just air/gas in a joint that gets released with movement and makes a sound. You may have a joint or two that tends to be more prone to that. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 12/24/2015 : 19:46:21
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quote:
Originally posted by summabody
Popping sounds can often be just air/gas in a joint that gets released with movement and makes a sound. You may have a joint or two that tends to be more prone to that.
Yes, it's like popping your fingers, which we were all warned not to do by our mommies--another "old wives tale".
For more on this fascinating topic "Search" "CREPITUS", Dr. Sarno says it's harmless.
Merry Christmas and have a popping New Year!
tt/lsmft |
Edited by - tennis tom on 12/24/2015 19:48:07 |
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new to the forum and tms
