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Susie
USA
319 Posts |
 Posted - 07/09/2004 : 20:45:43
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Mala, I was very very lucky. I have been going to doctors for years with tms equivalents with no results. Obviously, because there was nothing wrong with me. When my back attack hit, I tried to stick it out alone. I was miserable for weeks but had started having panic attacks at the doctor, another equivalent, so I was really afraid to go. Did I have a tumor? ( Along with the back pain, I had numbness and weakness in my right arm ). I also had ibs with the back attack so I was afraid of colon cancer. It all sounds wild now, but I promise you I was terrified. My mind would race from one fear to another depending on the symptom. I then remembered a friend who had severe backpain for years. I saw her a week before my big attack and she told me she was fine. I called her for help because I knew she had an inversion table. She showed up with the table and Dr. Sarnos book. She just handed it to me and said " I got better after I read this." She was told she would always be a cripple and that surgery might help. She had a herniated disc,blah blah. I read the book that night and saw myself everywhere. I can tell you how long I wore the brace etc., but I promise you all that is not important. Everyone on this messageboard has had a different combination of symptoms. When I started to improve, the pain started moving around. I can tell you how long it took for me to get better, but the time is irrelevent. Everyone is different and I really believe keeping track of time is not helpful.( at the beginning I could tell you how many days ago I read the book.) When you start to improve, you will gain confidence and not worry about your diagnosis or elapsed time. I was lucky in the fact that I proceded without a diagnosis, so I didn't have to overcome a doctors gospel. My friend told me that was one of the most difficult steps. I can tell you now that most of the time I am pain free. Every once in a while I get a stick here or there, but it honestly is almost humerous. You"ll see. I really reccomend the video. Dr sarno is extremely credible in person and the patients testimony was exciting. This messageboard is wonderful but it was great to see a face with the symptoms. The people look very sane and sanity was one thing I thought I lost. Take a chance and jump in 100%. You have nothing to loose. I promise you will be fine.
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Susie
USA
319 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2004 : 21:23:48
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| mala,I just wanted to add something that really helps. You've heard it a bizillion times on this board but it's true. When the pain is bad and you are really frightened,start thinking psycological. If I had trouble concentrating on what was bothering me enough to cause these symptoms I would start writing about past things that made me angry and upset. Things I hadn't thought of in years. I will never know if they were really the triggers, but I don't think it matters. It just proves to your brain you know what is going on and that you are in charge. When your gremlin keeps trying to get you focused on the pain, just refuse to go there. I also put my writingsin the shredder. It seemed symbolically helpful. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2004 : 01:38:45
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| Susie, great posts, very encouraging! |
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Fox
USA
496 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2004 : 09:31:06
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| From what I've been reading on this message board, the premise behind Sarno and Egoscue's ideas totally contradict each other. Sarno says to banish thoughts of structural abnormality such as muscle weakness or imbalance. Egoscue focuses on structual abnormality. If you are going to apply Egoscue's model, you might as well throw Sarno's model out of the window because the two are mutually incompatible......And don't fool yourself that you can do these exercises without having accompanying mental images that you are correcting some physical abnormality because that is the author's purpose for doing these exercises and your brain is not going to forget what it has read. |
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austingary
USA
95 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2004 : 09:49:40
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Fox: Egoscue focuses on structual abnormality.
This is not true. In fact, Sarno and Egoscue are in complete agreement that structural abnormalities, such as bones out of alignment, do not usually cause pain.
This idea about Egoscue, I think, comes out of the constant confusion on this board between "structural" and "physical".
Where Egoscue and Sarno differ is that Egoscue believes that the way we interact with the elements of modern civilization is pathological, while Sarno seems to believe that evolution has adapted us perfectly for current life.
It was TennisTom, I believe, who said here that Egoscue and Sarno know each other and have cordially debated the pros and cons of their positions.
But, that having been said, for those who apply Sarno's work more as a belief system than as a method of re-training the mind, you are probably right that Egoscue's books would be anathema to them, just as books written by skeptics are anathema to the adherants of a faith-based religion. |
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Fox
USA
496 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2004 : 10:37:47
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| Gary -- I'm no fan of any type of organized religion. In fact, the damage done by various organized religions throughout history is one of my pet peeves. However, I do "believe" in the Sanro model, and not just bits and pieces of it, and that is because the system has helped me tremendously -- and I have followed the model with fidelity. Also, my "belief" is backed by the success stories I've read on this message board. I also get some sort of confidence from Sarno's research on the thousands of his own patients - although it does trouble me to some degree that this research is very old and has not been independently verified by other researchers.......I knew I was going to be in trouble with you as soon as I reread my post and saw that I had used the term "structural abnormality" because I knew that you would equate "structural" with hard structures in the body like bones and ligaments. Perhaps, "physical abnormality" would have been a more useful term because this is more generic and would definitely cover the muscles.....Ergoscue appears to be focusing on the physical. He appears to be trying to help folks correct a physical problem (tight or weak muscles) by implementing some sort of exercise/physical therapy....Sarno would say that you are getting the sensation of tight muscles (which I get often in my left thigh -- and it's seriously painful and distracting) because of the brain cutting off blood flow for distraction purposes. I get this tight muscle sensation in the thigh when I have performed some movement or done some activity that I have conditioned myself to fear...I get rid of the pain by talking to my brain, disputing the association between the activity and the pain, ignoring the pain, pushing myself to perform the dreaded activity, creating mental images of painful things that have happened to me (especially as a child,) exercising like running or walking or hitting the heavy bag and sometimes by visualizing and acting my anger out...It works for me. The pain is gone in a short amount of time. I don't get tied up with trying to correct some supposed physical abnormality (tight muscles or weak muscles) by doing some physical therapy type of exercise. In the past, when I have gone the physical therapy type of exercise route, my pain always got worse, my fear got worse, and my conditioning got stronger for the fears of the moment and new conditioning fears were added. My relief comes by remaining "faithful" to the Sarno model (at least I do nothing to contradict the model -- the expression of anger stuff may not be in the Sarno books) both in terms of my belief in the effectiveness of the total system and and in applying the anti-TMS work. |
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austingary
USA
95 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2004 : 11:12:03
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Fox, my personal view is that some people's body pain is 100% related to their emotional life and those are the people who might get 100% relief from just doing the "emotional work".
But I don't think that I am one of those persons nor do I think that everyone else who posts here is, either. I think my original pain came from an actual gym injury which I then exacerbated by over-stretching to a point where I actually, physically, hurt myself. Then, TMS came in as an overlay on all that and the more I fretted about not being able to run and workout, the worse that aspect of it got.
At that time and in the past, I also had pain and stiffness related, I think, to mostly unconscious habits of holding myself rigidly, mostly around the hips and pelvis.
Doing the Sarno work helped me with the TMS, stopping that damned stretching allowed the damage I had done to myself to heal and a couple years of work on the way I sit, stand, walk and run have greatly loosened up the way I carry myself, allowing my mid-body to work more the way nature built it to work. Say what you like, this approach has worked for me. I have recovered. |
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ank
5 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2004 : 13:08:13
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I have been a silent reader of this board. I was tremendously helped by Sarno's methods and this board (thank you!) to heal my lower back pain one year ago. I have been doing pretty good until last one month when I developed lot of stiffness in my upper back/shoulder area. It got worse by playing Volley ball couple of times this summer. Based on this discussion, I picked up Egoscue's book from library and started reading it to create flexibility in my upper back. It seem to be helpful although I have read only a little so far. I want to do e-cises mentioned in the book but wanted to ask Austingary and others if it is necessary to get the posture evaluated or I can start the e-cises directly. How did you guys start? I live in NJ area and there is no clinic in this area.
Thanks in advance. |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2004 : 13:35:52
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quote:
Originally posted by ank
I have been a silent reader of this board. I was tremendously helped by Sarno's methods and this board (thank you!) to heal my lower back pain one year ago. I have been doing pretty good until last one month when I developed lot of stiffness in my upper back/shoulder area. It got worse by playing Volley ball couple of times this summer.
In my opinion you should strongly consider that this is another attack of TMS. You're already going down the wrong path by thinking that the volley ball made it worse. If it is TMS, and you start exercising and thinking physical, you are doing yourself a disservice. |
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austingary
USA
95 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2004 : 13:49:06
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Ank, I think you are making way too big a deal out of those exercises in the Egoscue book. What you are talking about are about 6 yoga-based flexibility exercises; there is no reason why you have to be "evaluated" by anyone to do them.
On the question of "TMS or no TMS", even Dr. Sarno says he exercises regularly, so I don't see why doing flexibility exercises should be in conflict with anti-TMS work, if you're doing that. IMO, everybody should exercise: running or cycling or some other aerobic exercise, something for strength, something for flexibility. |
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2scoops
USA
386 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2004 : 14:08:54
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"Ank, I think you are making way too big a deal out of those exercises in the Egoscue book. What you are talking about are about 6 yoga-based flexibility exercises; there is no reason why you have to be "evaluated" by anyone to do them.
On the question of "TMS or no TMS", even Dr. Sarno says he exercises regularly, so I don't see why doing flexibility exercises should be in conflict with anti-TMS work, if you're doing that. IMO, everybody should exercise: running or cycling or some other aerobic exercise, something for strength, something for flexibility."
I thought I would never say this, but Gary I actually agree with you.  |
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ank
5 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2004 : 14:40:21
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| Thanks Dave and Gary for your responses. Dave, I agree that I should consider this as another TMS attack and volley ball as just another trigger for TMS. There are few things going on in my life that can definitely cause TMS. I want to do these exercises for strength and flexibility as Gary mentioned. I know this is going to be tough battle to focus on psychological versus physical , I will try to keep my focus on psychological while doing exercises. I was asking about posture as I have had some pain with simple Yoga exercises in past and thought a personal evaluation can avoid any injuries. But this e-cises seem to be simpler than Yoga. |
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Peter Egoscue's Pain Free
