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 Clearing the air
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Peregrinus

250 Posts

Posted - 09/16/2014 :  17:52:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
There is no definitive method by which a symptom can be identified as being caused by TMS!

There are certainly many indications that a given symptom is likely caused by TMS. As Sarno pointed out, these include long term presence in the absence of some related worsening condition, the presence of psychological stress, the patient’s insistence that the symptom is the results of some “in vogue” disease, and many others.

The physiology of TMS is largely unknown and open to speculation. Sarno gave evidence that TMS back pain may be caused by a reduction in blood flow. Other symptoms that are believed to be caused by TMS, such as headaches are associated with an increase in blood flow. Perhaps the best guess is that TMS symptoms are caused by the response of the autonomic nervous system to psychological stress. Of course this doesn’t say much since the autonomic nervous system is involved in a variety of ways in virtually all physiological processes.

When a symptom that may be caused by TMS presents itself, there is usually no harm is treating it as a TMS symptom. Physicians often treat a symptom in a variety of ways (as an infection, or an allergy, or as a vitamin deficiency, etc.) until one treatment is successful. As attested to by this forum, suspected TMS symptoms often do not respond to TMS treatment. In these cases, the symptom may be caused by a physical problem.

Asking someone to determine if a symptom you are experiencing is caused by TMS is an exercise in futility. Stating that another person’s symptom is caused by TMS is a dangerous fraud.

mala

Hong Kong
774 Posts

Posted - 09/18/2014 :  17:21:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Good post Peregrinus.

No one can really say for sure especially on the internet whether or not a symptom is indeed TMS or not but sometimes it seems like that is exactly what is happening.

A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.

Regards

Mala




"It is more important to know what sort of person has a disease than to know
what sort of disease a person has." ~ Hippocrates (460-377 B.C.)

Mala Singh Barber on Facebook
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Dave

USA
1864 Posts

Posted - 09/19/2014 :  08:44:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Peregrinus
As attested to by this forum, suspected TMS symptoms often do not respond to TMS treatment. In these cases, the symptom may be caused by a physical problem.

This it not necessarily true, and in fact this mindset can hinder recovery.

Treating TMS is not an exact science. There is no pill you can take to magically make your TMS symptoms disappear. They are caused by a complex mindbody process. Some symptoms will be harder to banish than others.

The goal of TMS is to perpetuate the symptoms that succeed in grabbing your attention. If a particular symptom is more successful, it is more likely to continue. Just the fact that you are aware of the symptom and trying to "treat" it could be enough to perpetuate it. The symptoms that you can more easily ignore are the ones that are likely to fade more quickly. If you jump to the conclusion that a symptom must have a physical cause because you have not been successful treating it as TMS, then you are playing into the hands of the process.
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tennis tom

USA
4738 Posts

Posted - 09/19/2014 :  09:13:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks for that clarification Dave--you the man!
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Peregrinus

250 Posts

Posted - 09/19/2014 :  16:49:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dave
This it not necessarily true, and in fact this mindset can hinder recovery.




Dave:
I think you should read my post again.
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andy64tms

USA
589 Posts

Posted - 09/19/2014 :  17:47:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Pere,

In order to comprehend what Dave is saying you have to first believe that TMS knows your every move and thought.

In my recent Root Canal story I firmly believed my root canal would stay forever. As soon as I was told it was auto Immune related, It stopped throbbing – instantly! I have only had three TMS successes, and this was the nearest to “spontaneous healing” I have had, quite remarkable.

So I believe my thoughts and beliefs were keeping the root canal going. It’s now been 18 months pain free. I could be wrong but I have to choose to call it a TMS success and move on. I would be bound to have uncertainties, and I attribute this to TMS having sour grapes and a poor looser.

My “mindset” or belief definitely changed that day at the dentist, and I enjoyed being healed by a pretty young female.

Hope all is well



Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Charlie Horse on neck for 20 years, is almost gone.
Books:
Healing Back Pain
Unlearn your Pain
The Great Pain Deception

Edited by - andy64tms on 09/19/2014 18:14:02
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Peregrinus

250 Posts

Posted - 09/20/2014 :  06:59:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by andy64tms


My “mindset” or belief definitely changed that day


Andy:
Are you saying "mindset" is the same as a belief? I never knew that! I thought that "mindset" was another of the many "meaningless babble words" that are bandied about here. Why not just say belief?
By the way what exactly are you saying? Do you believe all root canal related pain is TMS?


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tennis tom

USA
4738 Posts

Posted - 09/20/2014 :  08:42:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Noun 1. MINDSET:

Mind-set, outlook attitude, mental attitude - a complex mental state involving ***BELIEFS*** and feelings and values and dispositions to act in certain ways; "he had the attitude that work was fun"

Edited by - tennis tom on 09/20/2014 08:52:24
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Dave

USA
1864 Posts

Posted - 09/20/2014 :  10:28:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Peregrinus

quote:
Originally posted by Dave
This it not necessarily true, and in fact this mindset can hinder recovery.




Dave:
I think you should read my post again.



Assuming your post accurately portrays your mindset, I stand by my response.

It is very difficult to outsmart TMS. Generally, it outsmarts you. It seizes the opportunities you give it to perpetuate symptoms.

Say I have a new symptom, elbow pain. I decide it is TMS and ignore it and think psychological and do all the necessary work. But it persists for days or weeks. If I allow this lack of progress to shake my belief that the elbow pain is TMS, and doubt creeps in that it might be a physical problem after all, then the pain will likely continue. TMS has won the battle.

Eventually, it becomes second nature. It is obvious when a new symptom appears that it is TMS. After you have successfully reconditioned yourself, you can finally outsmart TMS by short circuiting attacks before they can gain a foothold. Getting to this point takes a lot of time and a consistent, disciplined approach to how you react to symptoms. Until you get there, TMS will exploit any opportunity to shake your belief.
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andy64tms

USA
589 Posts

Posted - 09/20/2014 :  11:03:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Pere,

Yes, yes I am using mindset to enhance the word belief. “Set” as in concrete. I write posts via “Microsoft Word”. If I pass spell check the word is good enough for me.

I choose to believe my root canal issue was related to TMS because I fit the TMS profile, I cannot and should not speak for “All root canals”.

For 18 months while brushing my teeth the question arose. “Was my original tooth pain real or TMS?” Writing my post desensitized the situation and using your own words “cleared the air”.

Enjoy


Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Charlie Horse on neck for 20 years, is almost gone.
Books:
Healing Back Pain
Unlearn your Pain
The Great Pain Deception

Edited by - andy64tms on 09/20/2014 11:12:08
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Peregrinus

250 Posts

Posted - 09/20/2014 :  13:20:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by tennis tom

- a complex mental state involving ***BELIEFS*** and feelings and values and dispositions to act in certain ways


It takes babble to define babble!

Perhaps you can provide me with an example of a sentence containing the word "mindset" where the meaning of that sentence is enhanced (not just sounds good to you) by the inclusion of that word.
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andy64tms

USA
589 Posts

Posted - 09/20/2014 :  15:59:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
This lady “Carol Dweck” has writing a whole book called “Mindset” with a lot of descriptions and information:

http://mindsetonline.com/whatisit/about/index.html

You don’t need to buy the book, although I think many TMSers would benefit from doing so. There is even a Tab with one of those pesky tests that lead you to always buying the book no matter what your score results. I squirmed through the test to find this out, but it was fun.

Pere, to me the word “mindset” is no more a babble word than “mind body”.

John Doe had a mindset that kept him away from wasting precious life hours pointlessly arguing on internet websites. Got to go I’m packing for Hawaii.


Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Charlie Horse on neck for 20 years, is almost gone.
Books:
Healing Back Pain
Unlearn your Pain
The Great Pain Deception

Edited by - andy64tms on 09/20/2014 16:32:10
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