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marytabby
USA
545 Posts |
 Posted - 04/02/2005 : 16:12:42
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Since coming to the acceptance that I am most definitely a TMS sufferer, I am left with a nagging problem that I'm sure you all have been through, or are going through. I have an appt. with Doc Martinez late April, and an appt. with a new phycho therapist in a few weeks. This is my million dollar question, all responses welcomed:
I really earnestly try to figure out what the hell is bothering me, on a daily basis. I do the lists every morning, where I make a list of the things that may/might have been bothering me either now or in my past, and I then make a column next to it answering whether I can change it or I can't, and if I can change it, how I might get on in doing that. Until I can see the psychotherapist in a few weeks, how can I help myself "get to the issue/s"? I rack my brain, because I'm so desperate to get it figured out so I can feel better physically. I talk to myself, in the the shower, in the car, wherever I am that I can privately ask myself what it is that's causing this pain to keep moving around. I feel like I need some suggestions of what may work, until I can see the therapist and get going on sessions. I need something to help me "hang in there" so I don't go insane with pain. Can anyone shed some light on what I might try, to get the issues revealed? I know this is going to get me in the direction of getting well, and I'm desperate for feeling better NOW. Gratefully, Mary |
Edited by - marytabby on 04/02/2005 16:14:12 |
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Colleen
USA
138 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2005 : 17:36:12
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Dear Mary,
I just saw Dr. Martinez for the first time this past week. He has me reading Chapter 9 of Dr. Sarno's book MBP every day: 15 minutes in the morning and 30 minutes in the evening. He said that and it also says it in the book (Alot) we do not always know what the rage is because it is in our unconscious. We just have to accept that it is there.
Try reading Chapter 9 again.
Colleen |
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Baseball65
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2005 : 18:21:02
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I've posted this before,but I'll rip it out one more time.
First of all,if it's suppressed and unconscious we CAN'T bring it to mind!!!
So...you might be asking "what's the point?"
...Make a list of EVERYBODY and EVERYTHING that occupies a place in your life past and present.Don't omit your best friend,or your dog or your kids.
Than,put each name on the top of a blank piece of paper(or microsoft word) and write down every single reason that person angers you WHETHER IT'S REAL OR NOT!!
example:
My best friend Frank:
anger?--Makes me look bad in front of my wife by volunteering for everything,buys his wife expensive stuff and makes my wife want to "keep up",Cheats on his wife and I know it but can't say what a hypocrite he is,talks his "christian" BS and than loads his .44,was late finishing his part of our project,quit the band back in '95 when we were about to be signed,got crappy with me over the drywall job HE was supposed to finish----------------------------------------------------------------------
Than,I make a list of everything that it affected in me:
Self esteem: Makes me look like a shirker,makes me feel like a bum,I'm not worthy of his best effort,his wife is more important than our friendship
Personal relations: Made me look stupid to foreman,makes my wife compare us,pissed off client
money: Lost next job,lost publishing deal,I ate the material money
security: I can't trust him on this next big job,if he'll lie to his wife how can I trust him?
yada,yada,yada,...anything that affects pride,self esteem,security and other relationships
Than the kicker:
Where was I selfish,dishonest,self seeking,and to blame?
I knew he was a liar and not likely to follow through,but I was so desperate for the job I hired him anyway,I didn't really want him in the band,but I wanted the money from the deal,I couldn't care less about the money,just frightened that my wife will leave me if I can't keep up,afraid of humiliation,shame,ostracized,being alone
I used this format(borrowed from somewhere else) as when I read HBP it had no instructions...it just said repressed rage was the culprit,and this was a method I had used before to get in touch with rage....It's easy to know we hate our neighbor who plays Heavy metal music at 3AM.....it's hard to find the anger with our friends,family,co-workers....we repress it because we are afraid of being alone.
This is sort of empowering,as I began to see that it was my BELIEF system which generated a lot of the anger...and every now and than when I'm really 'dialed in' I have one of those "Aha!" moments where I became aware of something that was right in front of my face,but invisible
I did this a half hour to an hour a day,worked on the conditioning and read the book over and over and over.....I was cripple to normal in 3 weeks,though some of the last conditioned ones(minor) stuck around for months....each and every one needs to be addressed.
Also...after the pain went,I was in a rage 24/7...THAT is when I finally went and got Psychological help...for the safety of those in my immediate surroundings. 
anyways...this is A way...there are many,and the one that is right for you will evolve through trial and error.
from reading your posts it is clear that you are getting it ,and I have no doubt at all that you will be pain free in a short time......
peace
Baseball65 |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2005 : 18:26:39
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Maryalma,
Refer to page 26, of MBP, Holmes/Rahe's list of life events that can cause "disease" through the mechanism of internal rage. This list will probably supply you with enough life stessors to fuel your TMS.
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Susie
USA
319 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2005 : 18:34:21
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| You don't have to discover the exact triggers that caused your symptoms. The knowledge that your symptoms are caused by emotions is usually enough to effect a remission in your misery. |
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pault
USA
169 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2005 : 19:37:03
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| The problems you are searching for are problems of the conscious mind and those you can take up with your therapist,and get some relief.The reat culprit is in the unconscious mind (an illogical area,as stated in the good book)In most cases you may not realize what is bothering you,so just understanding how it works,and being defiant with it may do the trick.Remember :the pain is real,but harmless! good Luck to you. paul. |
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marytabby
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2005 : 06:36:13
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| Thank you everyone. I will re-read p.26 and chapter 9. And try more listing of things in a specific format. God, this is like trying to find a needle in a haystack. |
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Allan
USA
226 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2005 : 11:20:03
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Hello Mary.
Freud contributed a lot to our supposed understanding of the unconscious. I wonder if we truly can’t understand what is going on in the unconscious, then how we can even speculate on what is going on in the unconscious?
Dr. Sarno laments that no one ever picked up on Freud’s theories and continued his research. How does one research the unconscious? How is it possible? Some scientists, especially Edward O. Wilson, winner of two Pulitzer prizes, contends that Freud’s theories were wrong. Who knows?
If we can’t understand the unconscious, then how can one contend that the cause of some TMS pain really is repressed anger in the unconscious? Could it be that TMS pain is not derived from some unconscious situation but be a conscious signal to us that something is wrong in our life, that we know what is causing it, and that we should do something about it? Could it be that TMS pain is related to that old example of when we put our hand on a hot stove, we receive pain, a conscious signal, to tell us to take it off the stove?
Anxiety could be more of a cause of TMS pain than anger. Dr. Sarno mentions anxiety quite a bit. It may be possible that the anxiety does not have to be an extreme case and that it may be a mild case but enough to occupy one’s mind and cause the disturbance of TMS pain. It may not have to be earthshaking.
In your journaling, you may very well have already uncovered the cause; however, it may be helping to list things in your life that you would like to change. There may be some frustration that is causing you anxiety. Maybe there would be a clue in that list.
Your problem appears to be part of a continuing problem on this forum with people posting that the recovery process is so long and that the determination of the cause is so difficult. I am one of them as I have had unrelenting knee pain for over three months. If someone can solve this problem for us, it would be greatly appreciated.
Allan.
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Colleen
USA
138 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2005 : 11:50:53
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Baseball,
What you said about "after the pain, I went into rage 24/7".....very powerful!! I couldn't explain why in the last 2 to 3 weeks, I have been feeling so irritable, so anxious, so tired, so much emotion coming from everywhere. I am still having the pain, to some degree, but the process has started and these emotions that must have been sooo surpressed are coming up like spring flowers....everywhere.
Thanks for the insight,
Colleen |
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Ginag
51 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2005 : 11:36:27
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Allan, You are the first person that has come up with a theory that I have been entertaining myself. I have been suffering with constant dizziness and imbalance for about 6 years. Many tests taken, but no positive results. I completely embrace the concept of the TMS syndrome and will admit that I did have improvement with my symptoms since reading Sarno's books. However, after years of analyzing my anger and rage and also seeing how it adversely affects my symptoms, I just can't seem to eliminate the dizziness. I am beginning to think that as long as I still have to deal with these enraging conditions in my life, and be angered by them constantly, I will not be able to eradicate the TMS symptoms. Thus, it seems that maybe the people who ARE helped by (Sarno), that is, acknowledging the rage and anger, are the ones who NO LONGER have to deal with the disturbing problems that caused the TMS to begin with. Whereas, people like me, who believe and acknowledge the Sarno Syndrome, do NOT get relief because WE ARE STILL LIVING WITH THE ENRAGING PROBLEMS that brought on the TMS. That's where constant anxiety kicks in and may stymie us from having success.
Carol, on our Dizzy thread, had success in eradicating her dizziness but I believe it was only AFTER she resolved the conflicts she was having with her boss at work. So, perhaps, if you can't remove the problem, you may not have success in removing the TMS either. This might explain why some people have success and others don't. I know that when I am currently enraged by the ongoing problems in my life, my dizziness kicks in bigtime. So anxiety must play a significant factor in symptoms. Have the people who had success in eliminating TMS also been relieved of the rage-inducing problem??? I would love to hear some answers to that question. We're all so desperate for answers. Thanx.
Gina |
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Caroline
USA
55 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2005 : 13:02:25
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Maryalma,
You and I seem to have similar symptoms (upper back spasm), some difficulty in gettign beyond the "I know it's TMS" stage, and what may have been childhood trauma that we more or less aware of. I have been journaling, reading Sarno over and over, ignoring the pain, etc. and am actually regressing! My symptoms have become worse in the past two days, especially since I have started delving into childhhod memories. My problem is I have total memory blackout before the age of 6. I am coming to the conclusion that I may need psychotherapy becasue I have totally repressed some pretty nasty episodes in my childhood. |
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miehnesor
USA
430 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2005 : 13:05:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Colleen
Baseball,
What you said about "after the pain, I went into rage 24/7".....very powerful!! I couldn't explain why in the last 2 to 3 weeks, I have been feeling so irritable, so anxious, so tired, so much emotion coming from everywhere. I am still having the pain, to some degree, but the process has started and these emotions that must have been sooo surpressed are coming up like spring flowers....everywhere.
Thanks for the insight,
Colleen
And the next will be SO ANGRY!. Sounds like you are making major progress. |
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marytabby
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2005 : 13:15:22
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Caroline,
I have no memories prior to age 6 or 7 myself. DOes that mean anything or is it common for people to not remember much about those age years? Since I don't have much of a memory of those years, does it necessarily mean I have blacked them out too? Just curious if that's a general rule of thumb that clinicians use to measure how much we've repressed... |
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verdammt
Canada
97 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2005 : 18:59:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Allan
Freud contributed a lot to our supposed understanding of the unconscious. I wonder if we truly can’t understand what is going on in the unconscious, then how we can even speculate on what is going on in the unconscious?
Could it be that TMS pain is not derived from some unconscious situation but be a conscious signal to us that something is wrong in our life, that we know what is causing it, and that we should do something about it? Could it be that TMS pain is related to that old example of when we put our hand on a hot stove, we receive pain, a conscious signal, to tell us to take it off the stove?
Allan,
A very thought-provoking post! The Occam's Razor approach to TMS. I find myself wondering the same things.
Just to add fuel to the fire, let's not overlook the fact that Freud wrote exclusively in German - and apparently very difficult and convoluted German at that. Much has surely been lost and/or mangled in translation.
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Allan
USA
226 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2005 : 20:10:24
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Hello GinaG.
Your post was excellent. Well said.
Allan. |
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Stryder
686 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2005 : 21:56:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Maryalma8 ...I know this is going to get me in the direction of getting well, and I'm desperate for feeling better NOW...
Hi Maryalma8,
Yes, we all have been down this path, we want the fix NOW. Welcome.
"My name is Stryder."
"Hello Stryder."
"I have TMS."
I understand your frustration, but one of the first things you need to try to unlearn is that there is no "fix NOW" or "when" or "why me", you have TMS pain, and it can take days / weeks / months / years to come out on top. Yes, you are angry, I was too for 15+ years, at the pain. We all feel the obsession to be fixed, cured, right away.
As Dave says, managing TMS is a lifelong process. Its going to take a while and lots of work. Be patient, slow down, stop thinking about the future, think about the present. Read, follow the good advice of Dr. Sarno and those on this forum. We will help you. Have faith, be patient, do the work.
Oh yes, Mary, I almost forgot to tell you, rememeber, Its......not......your......fault. You are not the cause of your pain. Don't blame the TMS on yourself. Keep the faith.
Take care, -Stryder |
Edited by - Stryder on 04/06/2005 22:23:01 |
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Million Dollar Question
