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jennypeanut
103 Posts |
 Posted - 07/13/2013 : 17:25:36
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I have yet another strange symptom. At any given time I have at least one and often there is one main symptom in the spotlight, with two others on the back burners. There's no point in explaining my latest symptom because ultimately no one will have the exact symptom (in my mind) and it doesn't matter if I get reassurance because that isn't enough. I'll either start on to the next symptom or seek more reassurance. This is the life of the health anxiety driven soul. And it's a sad life.
I guess I see the pattern, have benefited some from TMS help, but I get stuck in the obsessive thinking. It's like I've always got to have something to think over like a broken record. Usually it's my symptoms which are all life threatening in my mind. But they never end up being anything. Other times its the health of my kids. I think this stems from watching a young family member die. But usually the focus is on myself.
I feel trapped by this obsessive thinking. The symptoms fuel it, the thinking fuels the symptoms. And it spirals downward.
So is it about finding something positive to obsess over? Because even when I'm "well" I'm still obsessing over something negative like family problems or people.
Well, any advice would be appreciated. In the meantime I'm trying to ignore The Troublesome Symptom of the Week, and focus my mind and body on relaxing and positive self talk. |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2013 : 17:50:48
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I've been arguing for a long time that TMS is really...at least for many...a form of OCD.
I recently mentioned that a colloquial name for OCD is "the doubters disease.
jennypeanut, you can't beat the OCD cognitive loops. For every positive thought, there is a negative. We can almost literally drive ourselves crazy.
The only way to play this game is to refuse to engage. You have to train yourself to stop thinking about this stuff. Every time you start this inner battle, quit it and focus on your breath. There are other techniques. They've saved my life.
Fear, doubt, worry all fuel our symptoms. Remover those emotions, and the symptoms go away. Understand that you can't feel those emotions without the physical concomitants. |
Edited by - art on 07/13/2013 18:23:37 |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2013 : 18:36:15
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I just want to add Jenny, and if feels important enough to put up a separate response, that you've pierced right through to the essence of this most painful and challenging syndrome...My hat's off to your perceptiveness.
Again, the only way out is to surrender. I promise you it's possible to train yourself to put an end to these terrible, ceaseless cognitive loops. It's the only way I know of to beat this thing.. |
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dgreen97
122 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2013 : 08:44:38
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couldn't agree more. jenny like you i have the endless loops of obsessive thoughts in my head. throughout the day i think about my eyes seemingly every minute and i find it extremely difficult to stop. its like being addicted to cigarettes. like you i'm always obessively thinking about my eyes so no wonder the pain isn't going away. i had two other conditions/problems in the past that became chronic because i was worrying about them every day. when i stopped worrying about them, they went away on their own. you might ask, how did you stop worrying? i wish i knew because i have no idea. somehow i got my brain to unchain its latch on that particular problem and i stopped worrying about it.
like you said its like our minds, since they're obsessive, always have to have something to think about or worry about. even when my pain is lower (im sure you've heard this before) im still thinking "is the pain going to come back, and when" i never get that closure of "ok the pain is gone now its going to stay gone" because in the back of my mind im fearing when its going to come back. i suppose this is where acceptance comes in. if i were to accept the symptoms as they are and not be afraid of them, there wouldn't be a reason for me to keep obsessively thinking about them. i think the root cause of obsessive thinking though is fear. if you weren't scared of the pain, then you wouldn't be obsessively thinking about it.
it makes it hard to live your life like a normal person. i have strong urges every day to read about TMS and these are urges that are compulsive.. so if i dont do them i feel like ive failed or something bad will happen. its kind of the same thing as a typical OCD symptom where you check to see if doors are locked a hundred times. until you complete the "ritual", it will continually nag you and nag you until you do.
so at this point im not sure what to do about it. art makes a good point to not indulge in these obsessive thoughts because then it fuels them but its almost like a cocaine addiction where if you dont get your fix you can't function properly. ive tried not indulging in the thoughts, and ive tried to redirect them elsewhere when im in pain and obsessing/worrying about it, but havent been very successful so far. im thinking that something else would have to come along that grabbed my attention enough off of my eyes that would finally eliminate this pain symptom. being focused on the pain is just another obsessive thought like any other.
when i was a teenager i was afraid of germs and would obsessively wash my hands until they bled. it was a compulsion to do that and i felt like i had no control. as alan gordon says its the preoccupation (thoughts and obsessive thinking) about the pain that is the problem, not the pain itself. the pain is just a means to an end like the checking of the door knobs to see if they're locked. i know this because ive successfully stopped my obsessive thinking about another pain problem ive had in the past but this one just keeps fighting me.
actually what art said about focusing on the breath when obsessively thinking/fearing is what ive been trying to do lately. i've talked to other people that have "normal" eyestrain while at the computer and the key point Ive found is that they aren't thinking about their pain 24/7. i ask myself "why do i have pain all day long?" its because im thinking about it all day long. |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2013 : 10:20:48
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quote:
Originally posted by dgreen97
i ask myself "why do i have pain all day long?" its because im thinking about it all day long.
Absolutely correct, dgreen. You're definitely on the right track. The thing is, as desperate as people often are they sometimes don't want to do the work, or feel like they're not capable of it. Either way, it comes to the same thing.
I promise you...and jennypeanut...that we have a much greater control over our thought processes than many think. We can absolutely choose not to think about something by means of latching onto something else...most effectively in my opinion on our breath...
I'm going to put up a post in the next week or so about how an extended panic attack almost killed me....literally. And how I ultimately saved myself by this kind of technique.. |
Edited by - art on 07/14/2013 10:21:31 |
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carrick
Ireland
19 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2013 : 15:41:35
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Excellent posts,thanks all! Art,I agree with the OCD theory,I only said to my husband today, I think I have OCD,as I think about my knee all day,every day,I'm addicted! It sounds so silly,I think if my hous was on fire,it still wouldn't me run as I fear the pain so much... I'm thinking of seeing a therapist for OCD issues, afraid to take medication but not sure how I can live my life like this. I know how powerful out breath can be,I need to practice.
Thanks again for the posts,Jenny hang in there X |
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Darko
Australia
387 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2013 : 16:23:21
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Hi Jenny,
One thing I have learnt is that there is no taming the mind directly. The act of trying to tame the mind is stress producing on it's own. Instead allow it to dribble as much crap as it needs to.....and it will.....heaps of it! Just understand that you don't have to believe them.....they're just thoughts, and you just say to yourself "thanks for sharing" and focus on what you need to focus on. Bring your attention to your body, focus on the aliveness inside of you and this will bring you peace and make you feel joy ( try it now )....and when you encounter a "Thought storm" as I call them, just understand they're only thoughts and bring your attention to your body.
Practice this as much as you can and you'll find the thoughts will fade without you even noticing. The only reason you have the thoughts is cause you place importance on them and you're focused on them.
D |
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chickenbone
Panama
398 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2013 : 22:02:01
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| Jenny and others - I have the same problem also. I really don't suffer from TMS anymore, but I have still got my health anxiety. As soon as one symptom leaves, another one shows up to take it's place. I agree that it is a form of OCD. Somatic experiencing has helped a lot, but I still have these obsessive thoughts about my health. Because of the somatic experiencing, I have a lot less fear of symptoms, so I have faster cycling of symptoms. I am hoping that the obsessive part gets better also. Things like meditation, affirmations, etc. did not work for me, although I find them relaxing. |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2013 : 11:04:12
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quote:
Originally posted by chickenbone
Jenny and others - I have the same problem also. I really don't suffer from TMS anymore, but I have still got my health anxiety. As soon as one symptom leaves, another one shows up to take it's place. I agree that it is a form of OCD. Somatic experiencing has helped a lot, but I still have these obsessive thoughts about my health. Because of the somatic experiencing, I have a lot less fear of symptoms, so I have faster cycling of symptoms. I am hoping that the obsessive part gets better also. Things like meditation, affirmations, etc. did not work for me, although I find them relaxing.
cb,
Health anxiety is one of the worst of the anxiety disorders. Unlike phobias, the fear is based on reality, the reality of our own mortality, and of our own human fragility.
I can only tell you what's helped me, which is making a real effort to broaden my perspective in what some might call a spiritual way. I'm happy to discuss this with you further by email...
No religion or references to supreme beings of any kind I hasten to add.
plogthesmith@gmail.com |
Edited by - art on 07/15/2013 11:05:30 |
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jennypeanut
103 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2013 : 22:04:43
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Darko- your advice was perfect. All day I've been repeating "thanks for sharing" to my thoughts and I say it sarcastically. I have had the best day in ages! I feel so free. I don't know if it was how you wrote it, but something just clicked. I've actually had a pleasant day and I wasn't symptom free! Even on symptom free days I'm anticipating pain or new symptoms, so to have a good day WITH symptoms is HUGE. Life somehow seems more manageable. I think of that Bible verse "rejoice in your sufferings because we know that the testing of your faith produces preservance." - I can honestly see how some people call TMS their "frienemy". It's a friend because it brings you to a new awareness, and you grow from it. Also met a woman today who told me her husband lost his job last week. They have little children and only his income. I told her I was sorry. She said "oh, I see the good in things." And then went on to explain how this is prob a blessing in disguise because her husband needed to leave but never would have on his own volition but that now he might find something he really likes
I thought "I want to be that person. Who sees the good
In things". I guess today gave me hope bc by letting my thoughts be heard and then dismissing them with "thanks for sharing" (and a dash of sarcasm) I was able to see that I actually do have power over my mind! |
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Darko
Australia
387 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2013 : 16:27:35
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JP,
thats good to hear. Just remember the problem isn't the problem, it's your attitude to the problem that is the problem. Just don't buy into the negativity that the mind produces and you'll find life and symptoms will start to ease..
D |
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mala
Hong Kong
774 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2013 : 18:22:50
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Way to go Jenny! . Great advice Darko.
Mala
"It is more important to know what sort of person has a disease than to know
what sort of disease a person has." ~ Hippocrates (460-377 B.C.)
Mala Singh Barber on Facebook |
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chickenbone
Panama
398 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2013 : 18:50:42
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| Yes, Art, I would like to take you up on that. I think my anxiety has a lot to do with late-life depression. For some reason, I don't like it that I am getting older and the idea of my own mortality. I wish I could get over this and accept that this is the natural way of life. I am not offended by religion or spirituality. Where do we go from here?? |
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Dr. Zafirides
189 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2013 : 20:16:53
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quote:
Originally posted by chickenbone
Yes, Art, I would like to take you up on that. I think my anxiety has a lot to do with late-life depression. For some reason, I don't like it that I am getting older and the idea of my own mortality. I wish I could get over this and accept that this is the natural way of life. I am not offended by religion or spirituality. Where do we go from here??
Chickenbone,
I recently wrote a chapter on existential psychotherapy for a book called The Psychology of Meaning. It addresses many of the concerns you mention in your post.
I would be happy to email you an early draft of my chapter (I can't distribute the final draft as it is a published work). But please realize, what you feel is what ALL of us feel in our own unique way. These existential concerns are part of the human condition. You feel them because you are human. Give yourself that kindness and compassion.
If you (or anyone in the forum) would like a copy, please email me at:
peter@thehealthymind.com
It would be my privilege to send it along to you. I hope you find it both informative and helpful.
Kindly,
Dr. Z
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chickenbone
Panama
398 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2013 : 21:19:02
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Dr. Z, thank-you so much for your kind offer. I would very much like to receive a copy. I will use the link you have provided. I think this could really help me.
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bryan3000
USA
513 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2013 : 23:37:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Darko
Hi Jenny,
One thing I have learnt is that there is no taming the mind directly. The act of trying to tame the mind is stress producing on it's own. Instead allow it to dribble as much crap as it needs to.....and it will.....heaps of it! Just understand that you don't have to believe them.....they're just thoughts, and you just say to yourself "thanks for sharing" and focus on what you need to focus on. Bring your attention to your body, focus on the aliveness inside of you and this will bring you peace and make you feel joy ( try it now )....and when you encounter a "Thought storm" as I call them, just understand they're only thoughts and bring your attention to your body.
Practice this as much as you can and you'll find the thoughts will fade without you even noticing. The only reason you have the thoughts is cause you place importance on them and you're focused on them.
D
Great post.
Easier said than done, but removing emotion from the thought is the key. I've struggled in the past and managed to find ways to get beyond most of them. But, it's always about removing emotion. If there's no emotion attached to the thought, your mind simply can't be bothered to keep recalling it.
Try thinking of yellow shoelaces.
Now, try to forget it. You can't for a few minutes, right? But, soon... you will and you'll be hard pressed to keep yellow shoelaces in your mind. It simply doesn't have any relevance.
So, even when you WANT to keep a thought coming back, you can't... we forget things all the time, even things we want to remember.
But, as soon as fear is attached to that thought... it's on. Especially fear because that's the one emotion we evolved to use to keep ourselves safe. Unfortunately, stress and modern living has made these defenses go awry.
So, it's about losing the assignment the thought has... not the thought.
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Darko
Australia
387 Posts |
Posted - 07/18/2013 : 15:00:14
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Bryan,
I have found I have a really hard time trying to remove emotion from a toxic thought. Best thing to do is change the toxic thought....or change the perspective of a situation so as to not produce the negative emotion. You can only get emotions from thoughts.....so no negative or crappy thoughts and I have no negative emotions.
It's all good! :-)
D |
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jennypeanut
103 Posts |
Posted - 07/18/2013 : 15:25:52
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| I'm enjoying the continued responses to this post. I mentioned already that by following Darko's advice and saying "thanks for sharing", I have made it work. After one day of following the advice I woke up the following day without the nagging symptom. However, as I mentioned in my original post, there are always several other things on the back burner, so those health fears took turns being the "Symptom of the Day". I've continued thanking my mind for sharing and moving onward and thus have come to witness a rather strange parade of thoughts - new symptoms, new fears. The mind really does "dribble out a lot of crap" when you let it. I think Darko is right. Let the mind go where it wants to and gently guide it back to where it should be. I've been calling my unconscious mind "Frankenmind". Frankenmind could be a friendly monster if I take the time to let it blabber and say "I'm sorry you feel that way" and pat it on the head and lead it back to reality. Maybe that's a little strange sounding, but it's working. And Frankenmind has a LOT to say, so I'm pretty occupied with patting it, shaking my head at it and telling it thanks for sharing. I feel sorry for Frankenmind. It's been fed so much negativity, it can't help but say what it does. This has helped me not only have compassion for myself, but to stop the symptoms AND have better days! It's so freeing to not be obsessively fearful. I'm hoping that in time Frankenmind will have a name change. Maybe something that rhymes. "Calm&Kind"? |
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Darko
Australia
387 Posts |
Posted - 07/18/2013 : 15:39:36
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JP,
you're on the right track that's for sure! When you stand back and think about the central premise for TMS is repression of some sort and the symptom being a diversion. When you let the mind "dribble" without buying into it....and also process any emotion that bubbles to the surface you are are taking the lid off the pressure cooker. You are effectively taking the fuel away from the TMS fire.
Take note: You will get new symptoms and emotions as the mind fights for control....all sorts of strange things will happen. Take a pain killer if you need and laugh it off.
From here there are two steps going forward.
1- Do not add to the TMS fire ( buying into negative thoughts )
2- Take fuel away from the TMS fire ( allow the mind to dribble and process emotion consciously )
When you create a habit of positive thinking the peace and calm will follow.....You'll be fine
D |
Edited by - Darko on 07/18/2013 15:41:31 |
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Dr. Zafirides
189 Posts |
Posted - 07/18/2013 : 18:36:08
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quote:
Originally posted by chickenbone
Dr. Z, thank-you so much for your kind offer. I would very much like to receive a copy. I will use the link you have provided. I think this could really help me.
Happy to do it, Plum!
If you want further information on existential psychotherapy in TMS, please check out episode #21 of The Healthy Mind Podcast:
http://www.thehealthymind.com/2012/04/18/existential-therapy-how-anxiety-leads-to-physical-pain/
I discuss my specific approach in a little bit more detail.
I hope you find it helpful.
Don't EVER doubt your strength, Plum.
Kindly,
Dr. Z |
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art
1903 Posts |
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How do you tame the obsessive mind?
