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RikR
USA
94 Posts |
 Posted - 03/01/2013 : 09:04:39
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Dr. Schubiner
On page 45 of your book in a section titled “The Role of Conscience” you briefly discuss the internal child/parent roles. You seem to be suggesting that Mind/Body disorder patients grow up with an overbearing parent (conscience) and that the inner parent is the source of shame – guilt – humiliation - self criticism – need to be liked – perfectionism and low self esteem....and other internal discords.
Do I understand that us with MBD have this part of the personality in too much control and perhaps constant finger pointing at the child – if so that could really piss a child off with resulting anger.
My mother was from the south and they had a saying to keep children under control: “Don’t Be Ugly.” My father also had one: “Hands in pockets – don’t touch – be seen and not heard” when we were in stores or in social situations.
I would like to see more devoted to this concept – as I get in touch more with my little boy he is not happy about much I have compelled him to do in my life.
I sense the parent is the harsh taskmaster and in alignment with our culture that we have to accomplish and do...do...do rather than just be.
An old friend at Stanford University and one of the world’s foremost authorities on stress ( Dr. Robert Sapoksky) once told me: “Human neurology is designed to not have a human move faster than they can run (sensory overload), eat – sleep - eliminate and have sex.....everything else is stress.”
So it would seem that our childhood wounds have created an inner parent that is overbearing and all my child wants to do is have some good feelings, fun and build a sandcastle. He could give a damn about if I am accomplishing anything or if my weeds are pulled.
I can certainly see how a constant “parent” in my child's face with prattling finger pointing will make my child very angry. It could also reduce the whole persons ability to accomplish real things to care for the child...having a constant judge looking over your shoulder would cause anyone to falter and become stuck in self-questioning.
****So my question is: do we with MBD have an over developed and dominant inner parent?
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2013 : 09:16:55
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| Dr. Schubiner is not on this message board, but I sent him along your question via e-mail. |
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RikR
USA
94 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2013 : 09:33:08
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| I have his email and phone number - thanks Shawn |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2013 : 10:37:02
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His response:
Thanks Shawn.
Please tell Rik that the short answer is generally "yes." Freud
described an inner child (the id, our selfish part) and an inner
parent (the superego, our conscience) and most people with TMS have
had hurts in their lives. These hurts tend to trigger fear and anger
(components of the inner child). In addition, most of us with TMS
also try hard to please, be good, and we are often self-critical and
feel guilty (components of the inner parent). The conflict between
our own needs (to be independent and autonomous) often conflict with
what we think we "should" be doing (our inner parent). This conflict
is often at the heart of TMS symptoms.
Does that help?
Best, Howard Schubiner |
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RikR
USA
94 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2013 : 10:46:24
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| Helps a lot - makes me want to tell my deceased parents to shut up |
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RikR
USA
94 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2013 : 10:47:47
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| Makes me wonder if fear and anger are always the inner child?? |
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Sylvia
199 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2013 : 11:53:09
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Aren't you a therapist? Don't you already know this stuff? You are ALL1Spirit right?
Or am I confusing people again. I did it with Shawn, lol! |
Edited by - Sylvia on 03/01/2013 11:53:57 |
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MatthewNJ
USA
691 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2013 : 15:38:23
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I have learned (From Dr. Evans) to love my inner child, protect him, hug him, tell him he is safe, protect him. All the things he didn't get.
That said, all the "lies" we learned as children is normal for ALL human beings. Children just do that. We learn and believe everything we hear and see. Read "The Four Agreements" by Don Miguel Ruiz.
Now that I am aware of that I have made a CHOICE to change my thinking. My thoughts create my life. Not an easy task, but a doable one.
I have been at it 10 years and I am not quiting now because I feel better.
Matthew
Ferretsx3@comcast.net
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Less activated, more regulated and more resilient. |
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balto
839 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2013 : 08:38:24
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This "inner child" and "parents" thing is too deep for my low IQ brain to comprehend. I tried to deal with my "inner child" for years without any result. My symptoms don't go away until I stop my fear of it.
Here is some simple formulas I've been trying to live by the past few years:
Negative emotion -> MB symptoms -> fear
Fear of symptoms -> keep MB symptoms alive -> more fear -> ... looping
elliminate all fear thoughts -> MB symptoms.
mindfulness living, compassionate living -> MB symptoms.
------------------------
No, I don't know everything. I'm just here to share my experience. |
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2013 : 08:55:39
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| You know what balto. I was thinking of saying a very similar thing. I think this inner child construct is just too confusing. While it might fit, thinking of it this way, it throws someone off of track a lot of times. It confused me big time and I like to think I dont have a low iq. I dont think balto you have a low iq either. It is better to think of the problem being more so a mental strain for what ever reason. So if you feel you should be doing something but your not, you obviously have a mental strain as a result. As you can see Matt above was told by his psychologist to help calm his inner child. Lets think about this, Isn't that just calming the mental strain? |
Edited by - Ace1 on 03/02/2013 09:37:48 |
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RikR
USA
94 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2013 : 10:39:08
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Ace
Do you consider reading TMS books and being on forums trying to understand what to do as a strain |
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RageSootheRatio
Canada
430 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2013 : 11:23:02
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quote:
Do you consider reading TMS books and being on forums trying to understand what to do as a strain
I'm not Ace1, but I think anything can be done in a strained way ... even meditating, positive affirmations, visualizing, trying to "relax" etc ... working, housework, reading, watching TV ... anything at all can be done in a strained way ... or not ...
RSR |
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MatthewNJ
USA
691 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2013 : 11:36:53
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Rikr,
Don Miguel Ruiz discusses these "lies" as you call them in his book "The Four Agreements". Those lies are simply other peoples "dream" or "reality". Mom, Dad, brothers, sisters, teachers. Until we are about 7 we are not self aware. So we absorb this stuff as our dream (reality). After that we are pretty much stuck with it until we realize it isn't OUR reality. For me it was when I was 43 and I read Dr. Sarno. That said, it really didn't sink in until I had two more serious bouts with pain, an ulcer, life threatening blood clots, saw DrR. Sarno twice and spent 4 years with one of his counselors Dr. Evans.
I think you would get a lot out of that book. It is a very quick read. Not a "TMS book" per se, but it has helped me immensely to change how I think. Change your thoughts, change your life.
Matthew
Ferretsx3@comcast.net
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Less activated, more regulated and more resilient. |
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2013 : 11:37:25
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| Yes rsr is correct. Anything can be done in an intense hyped up manner (strain) and that is the basic problem. You rik are posting too much and too excited about this subject (tms) and thus in your case what you have asked about is being done in the manner you have described. I mentioned this once before to you but I am not sure you read my comment. Because us tmser's are so sensitive, I have to put the disclaimer that this comment is intended only to help you, not to criticize you. |
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RageSootheRatio
Canada
430 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2013 : 12:32:23
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Oh, I should also add that the reason I KNOW anything can be done in a strained way, is because I have been in an almost constant strain for a long long long time. And no "advice" was really going to work for me, because underlying it all was being very strained mentally. Even trying to get out of strain can be done in a strained way! Voice of experience, here.  |
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2013 : 13:18:34
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| Wow your understanding rsr impresses me |
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gailnyc
USA
80 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2013 : 15:52:53
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| RSR, have you gotten out of the strain yet? Are you still working at it? |
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RageSootheRatio
Canada
430 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2013 : 20:05:56
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Hi gail,
I have had a brain completely "wired for strain" for many decades, (and have felt unwell in various ways for decades). I completely "recognized" myself in many descriptions that Ace1 made in his "keys" such as:
quote:
• You will think that the way you react/feel is normal (and that you are not in a hyped up mode) because it is so habitual, but if you have symptoms, it is there. (from #8)
• I also believe that the symptoms intensify the need to be in a rush because when someone is in pain or uncomfortable, they just want to get tasks of daily living just "over with". I think this somehow intensifies the strain and illness and makes it present almost all day, with every task present in life. Also a lot of times there is a feeling to escape the symptoms themselves and that somehow perpetuates them too. When someone has symptoms and they can't figure out what’s bothering them, it is usually the need to be in a rush, to escape, or to just want to get a task just out of the way. Another one is the feeling that one should be doing something more productive than what they are doing right now. (from #14)
• Another way to think about this is you have made (conditioned) yourself to be uncomfortable in almost every situation and the urge is to escape. (from #15)
• You may have to stop and pause for a second from whatever it is you are doing to look and see in the big picture how hyped up (strained) you are, which then helps you to relax it. (from #17)
• 18. Anything that is annoying to you is a source of symptoms, so try not to let whatever it is become annoying to you, just accept it. Be aware that after having symptoms for sometime even tasks of daily living become annoying. (from #18)
• Another way of looking at this is there is the thought, 'I can finally relax after so and so is completed', so you are on edge until you are done doing what you have to do. This is wrong thinking and you have to learn to be relaxed while doing whatever it is you are doing. (from #21)
• Some people talk, behave and function in a strained way and this is to be recognized and modified for cure to occur. (from #23)
These, about the healing process, particularly spoke to me:
quote:
22. When you heal, the pain more so fades away, so there is no battle that is then eventually won. It's ok to be easy on yourself and on the symptomatic body part when the tension level is very high. Don’t feel you have something to prove or that you have let it beat you. Bring the tension level down first then you will see that your symptoms have subsided enough for you to function. The healing process is done very gradually, with a very gradual improvement in symptoms and ability to do things you were unable to do before. You cannot do anything physical to heal (which includes fighting).
23. Everything to your best should be done with peace, calmness, forgiveness and ease (WITHOUT STRAIN or WITH FUNCTIONAL RELAXATION). Some people talk, behave and function in a strained way and this is to be recognized and modified for cure to occur. Observing a video of yourself may help to clue you in on this. Also be good to yourself.
• 24. Try to think of the big picture when applying these techniques and when trying to achieve relaxation. Most people with symptoms are too detail oriented and are intense in that regard. They also try to apply this detail orientation and intensity to their symptoms, to trying to get rid of them and to what is causing them. When one looks to see if they are emotionally uncomfortable or strained, it is better to look at it from a general/big picture sense than focusing and trying to find some tiny little detail. Then it is helpful to try to achieve ease in the big picture as well. Part of your cure is to stop thinking in this intense manner and to now be more laid back and think of the big picture.
I have been so completely wired for stress for so much of my life, I think it may take some time to reverse. However, having said that, I feel I already had a great deal of success w/ treating my TMS. I first discovered TMS many years ago when I had debilitating sinus headaches and was on daily medication. The headaches resolved quite quickly (I was off meds within several months). I currently have varying other symptoms (not pain) although I don't know that I feel "fear" around them ... (so I don't believe that it is fear per se, which keeps them going). Most of them are just annoying (like burning tongue syndrome) and come and go ... but I do want to get to "the next level" and so I started following Ace1's Keys because I DID recognize myself in his descriptions and it made sense that my remaining symptoms were caused by that constant mental strain he describes ...
In my particular case I believe the "constant mental strain" is just another manifestation of the condition. For ME (and this may not apply to anyone else) it is actually a "defence" and protection against emotions (from my trauma background.) It is better for me to be mentally strained all the time rather than to deal w/ the emotions. So ... in *some* ways for me it is a conscious choice and I think the trauma has to be unwound more slowly, so as not to be too destabilizing...
So .. that's the long answer (!) but the short answer is no, I haven't gotten out of my strain yet and I look forward to continue working at it ... I also liked how Ace1 said in an earlier version of his Keys: "Rejoice that you now know what's wrong and how to fix it. Before you had no chance of being really better, but now you know and all it will take is a matter of time. How beautiful is that?"  (Thanks again, Ace! I think I've understood a lot of what you've said because I've LIVED it! )
RSR
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Edited by - RageSootheRatio on 03/02/2013 20:10:43 |
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RageSootheRatio
Canada
430 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2013 : 08:01:11
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MatthewNJ wrote:
quote:
I have learned (From Dr. Evans) to love my inner child, protect him, hug him, tell him he is safe, protect him. All the things he didn't get.
Then Ace1 wrote:
quote:
As you can see Matt above was told by his psychologist to help calm his inner child. Lets think about this, Isn't that just calming the mental strain?
And I wanted to say that yes, I agree that "calming one's inner child" can be seen as one way of "calming the mental strain" because it can have the same 3 FUNCTIONS that Ace1 outlined for affirmations, namely:
1. Help you recognize your strain better.
2. Decrease the frequency of the strain.
3. Help you be able to reverse the effects strain that has already occured easier.
I think the important thing is to satisfy the FUNCTION (in whatever way(s) work best for us as individuals). For some people (like Ace1 and Balto) the "inner child" approach doesn't resonate or work for them. Personally, I rather like it and find it a little soothing. 
RSR |
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MatthewNJ
USA
691 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2013 : 14:13:44
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I don't see it as calming (although I can't deny that that is a prt of it), but I see it more as giving my inner child what he didn't get to begin with. Although that is just a bit of personal detail.
What it really comes down to, again, is we should each use what works for us! and there is so much to choose from. Try some stuff, and see what happens.
Matthew
Ferretsx3@comcast.net
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Less activated, more regulated and more resilient. |
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RageSootheRatio
Canada
430 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2013 : 09:52:46
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| Thanks, Matthew for coming back and clarifying. I found your "personal detail" quite helpful. (and BTW your personal story has been both inspiring and instructive for me.) RSR |
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Note to Dr. Schubiner
