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pan
United Kingdom
173 Posts |
 Posted - 02/23/2013 : 01:39:00
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quote:
Originally posted by alix
gailnyc, my symptoms were pelvic pain. I visited Dr.Schechter and I felt that I knew more about pelvic pain/prostatitis/pudendal than him. I don't blame him. He cannot know everything. At the end he said your problem is TMS while his body language was more like "I have no clue".
Then at last I felt pressured into buying his videos and worksheets which I really did not want to buy, so I was kicking myself (that famous people pleasing thing again).
Also toward the end of my visit, he asked me if my pain was higher or lower than when I came in. I said higher and was told that it was a "good sign". ugh! What about if I had said "lower"? A bad sign then.
So overall that was a really poor visit that set me back big time.
If you are healing already and you are convinced of a TMS diagnostic, I am not sure what benefit visiting a TMS doctor would bring.
At best he/she will say it is TMS and it will make no difference. But you may get bad vibes and that is enough to set you back. At worst like for TT, you may get a "Not TMS, it is physical". What do you do then?
If you leave the doctor's practice completely pain free, you know that it is just a short term placebo. The most important part is the psychological work you are currently doing and there is no short-cut.
Monte spoke on his videos about the (in)famous book cures/doctor visits that eventually relapse because no in-depth psychological work was done.
This is my major concern with the visit scheduled to the TMS practioner on Tuesday...I'm really not sure what they can tell me I don't know or what is going to make me happy from the visit.
I have been sent an in depth analysis questionaire that I'm supposed to complete and mail back to him before my visit but anybody reading that would think why isn't this guy in hospital with a breakdown let alone suffering from a twisted pelvis and backache, I dunno it just feels like the whole thing is being led to a TMS diagnosis regardless.
I'm confused as to how a TMS diagnosis is made. If this guy says yes you have a twisted pelvis (which is quantifiable by all accounts) but you also have stress and emotional issues he is surely going to dx TMS as that is his job...just as my osteo and chiro's all dx'ed the structural issue causing my pain as that is there job. What really is there to gain?
I'm sort of at that point where I concluded it was ridiculous to keep going to the osteo as I had zero faith in their ability to eradicate my pain and I feel much the same as visiting the TMS practioner really...am I really going to buy into whatever they tell me?!
Another area that has rung a bell with me is the way this treatment model has been business structured. I was going to see a TMS practioner in the UK about 3 years ago but didn't need to in the end. When I looked for that one now the whole website had changed and it was now all about SIRPA and all these different practioners all over the country and talk about 'opportunities' for people who wanted to become practioners. I suppose this is inevitable as the theory and treatment becomes more widely accepted but you can't help but feel that in about 2 years we will start seeing TV documentaries about charlatans who are taking advantage of 'desperate and gullible people in chronic pain'. Oh well time will tell.
I'm undecided about Tuesday but I'm sure I will end up going. I don't feel I've just nothing to lose but then again in really struggling to see what I've got to gain.
Wake me up with your amphetamine blast
Take me by the collar and throw me out into the world
Rock me gently & send me dreaming of something tender
I was brought here to pay homage to the beat surrender
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Bugbear
United Kingdom
152 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2013 : 03:04:00
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| Pan, am sending you a private message. |
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alix
USA
434 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2013 : 10:49:38
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The problem pan is that TMS is a diagnostic of exclusion. A Doctor cannot exclude everything. He can only do it based on his area of expertise and take a guess at the rest based on his general training.
Maybe if you had a panel of doctors examining you (like at the Mayo clinic) it would be very powerful.
But Dr.Schechter looking simply at my spine MRI to determine TMS is not believable as a predictor and my mind is acutely aware of it. |
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pan
United Kingdom
173 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2013 : 12:12:53
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Hmm, that is sort of my problem with the TMS diagnosis, many times it isn't a diagnosis of exclusion is it simply a diagnosis counter to the structural one you may have been given. If you had medical testing for a symptom and no issue could be found that a TMS diagnosis would seem to me to be stronger...when you are given a TMS diagnosis alongside a structural diagnosis which the vast majority of the medical community would agree with then things are indeed trickier.
Wake me up with your amphetamine blast
Take me by the collar and throw me out into the world
Rock me gently & send me dreaming of something tender
I was brought here to pay homage to the beat surrender
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2013 : 12:16:58
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| Here is something to consider, and there are numerous books on this topic. Many, many people who did not have TMS, but I real physical problem, have, through the use of the healing powers of their mind, totally recovered from their condition. I am talking cancer, rheumitoid arthritis and tumors,etc. This is well documented. |
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alix
USA
434 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2013 : 12:23:49
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At the time, I was well aware of that but I thought that the "act" of seeking a TMS doctor or the "act" of having psychotherapy was a strong signal for my brain that I meant business. In fact and years later, I realized that it was simply a distraction.
The reality is more simple (it is all within) but much more demanding (it takes much more dedication than to read books and visit practitioners).
It is also why I did not post on this forum when I was healing. I did not want to have the distraction of debating or arguing. I read it though and I am grateful for that. |
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pan
United Kingdom
173 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2013 : 12:36:06
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Very true that shawn...often makes me wonder about the idea some hold that The treatment for TMS is in itself placebo...I know many argue strongly against this but even if it isn't a placebo the implementation of thinking clean and getting in touch with and experiencing our emotions is an extremely healthy habit to have.
Alix...totally agree with everything you have said. Really once you have understood the concept an an intellectual level everything that is required from this point onwards cannot possibly be found in books or forums by I suppose our rational minds still want validation and answers and probably our unconscious minds don't want us starting on the work that will actually render the imperative pointless.
I hadn't posted on here for a food couple of years until very recently having recovered form health anxiety but having 'popped back' for an opinion I find myself sucked back in and analysing and looking for answers. I've always been of the option that behaviours change thoughts and not the only way round so maybe that is what I knew to look at and implement.
Wake me up with your amphetamine blast
Take me by the collar and throw me out into the world
Rock me gently & send me dreaming of something tender
I was brought here to pay homage to the beat surrender
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alix
USA
434 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2013 : 12:42:53
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quote:
TMS diagnosis would seem to me to be stronger...when you are given a TMS diagnosis alongside a structural diagnosis which the vast majority of the medical community would agree with then things are indeed trickier.
In general we all have many things diagnosed. In our quest for health we have been reading a lot about those issues in "peer reviewed" scientific papers.
But then when you are facing that TMS practitioner that is only vaguely aware of those pathologies and cannot really tell you why they don't apply to you, it will act as a nocebo. |
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gailnyc
USA
80 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2013 : 16:13:46
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| Although I hear what you're all saying, I feel like if I don't go to the TMS doctor (Dr. Ira Rashbaum in New York) I will have NO doctor whom I can trust! |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2013 : 16:31:37
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gailnyc,
A great many of us, including myself, have never seen any TMS doctor, and I don't intend to see one in the future. I generally don't trust doctors. Mine is a pill pusher. |
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alix
USA
434 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2013 : 16:37:36
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What do you expect from Dr.Rashbaum? You will get probably a "It is TMS" with a forceful voice. Is that enough for you?
What is Dr.Rashbaum's specialty?
If it fits well with your symptoms, go for it. But if your symptoms are more obscure and usually treated by a doctor in another field, Dr.Rashbaum will not be able to make a very convincing determination and that can set you back.
I can see the benefit when Dr.Sarno had a tutorial, phone access, monthly panels etc... But a single office visit? |
Edited by - alix on 02/23/2013 16:49:32 |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2013 : 17:41:37
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quote:
Originally posted by gailnyc
Although I hear what you're all saying, I feel like if I don't go to the TMS doctor (Dr. Ira Rashbaum in New York) I will have NO doctor whom I can trust!
GailNYC, I think it's a very good idea to see Dr. Rashbaum, especially since he was picked by Dr. Sarno after his retirement as his successor. Being dx'ed by a TMS savvy physician should be step one to separate the structural from the TMS. If I had the opportunity to be dx'ed by the Good Doctor, I would have taken it in a NY minute. You are VERY fortunate to have that opportunity.
G'luck!
tt
==================================================
DR. SARNO'S 12 DAILY REMINDERS:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0dKBFwGR0g
TAKE THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale
Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
==================================================
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." Jiddu Krishnamurti
"Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional." Author Unknown
"Happy People Are Happy Putters." Frank Nobilo, Golf Analyst
"Be careful about reading health books. You may die of a misprint." Mark Twain and Balto
"The hot-dog is the noblest of dogs; it feeds the hand that bites it." Dr. Laurence Johnston Peter
"...the human emotional system was not designed to endure the mental rigors of a tennis match." Dr. Allen Fox
======================================================
"If it ends with "itis" or "algia" or "syndrome" and doctors can't figure out what causes it, then it might be TMS." Dave the Mod =================================================
TMS PRACTITIONERS:
John Sarno, MD
400 E 34th St, New York, NY 10016
(212) 263-6035
Here's the TMS practitioners list from the TMS Help Forum:
http://www.tmshelp.com/links.htm
Here's a list of TMS practitioners from the TMS Wiki:
http://tmswiki.org/ppd/Find_a_TMS_Doctor_or_Therapist
Here's a map of TMS practitioners from the old Tarpit Yoga site, (click on the map by state for listings).:
http://www.tarpityoga.com/2007_08_01_archive.html |
Edited by - tennis tom on 02/23/2013 17:43:52 |
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gailnyc
USA
80 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2013 : 20:00:09
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Alix, my problem is with my foot, and since Dr. Rashbaum is a physiatrist it does seem to be within his specialty.
Tom, thank you for the encouragement. Weren't you one of the people who said going to see a TMS doctor did you more harm than good, though? |
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susan828
USA
291 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2013 : 20:08:07
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Hi Gail, I tried to message you but there is no contact info. I am also considering going to him and would love to know how your visit goes. Did he not have a sooner appointment than the end of March?
If you could click on my profile and email me, it would be great. I also have a foot issue (and others, unfortunately). If you don't want to use your regular email, maybe you can make a new gmail just for the purpose of things like boards. Thanks and I hope your appointment goes well!
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alix
USA
434 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2013 : 21:17:55
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Tennis tom,
I really wish I would have not seen any TMS savvy doctor and instead put my energy to good use doing the in-depth psychological work and following Ace's or Monte's advises. There is no way for a doctor to say after 15 minutes maximum with 100% certainty it is TMS and your brain knows it.
I completely agree with Shawn.
It is simply another distraction. After the doctor there will be a new book. After the book there will be a video. After the video some worksheets... I know I have been there erring for 2 years going absolutely nowhere.
In fact, I have read through old posts things like: I visited Dr.X. He said it is TMS and I was pain free after leaving his practice. It is a miracle!
The same people post a few weeks later complaining about the same pain and looking for the next "thing". |
Edited by - alix on 02/23/2013 21:29:36 |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2013 : 23:12:39
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quote:
Originally posted by gailnyc
Tom, thank you for the encouragement. Weren't you one of the people who said going to see a TMS doctor did you more harm than good, though?
Yes, but that is because he said my hip was NOT TMS and to get a hip replacement. If he had said it was TMS I would be running now, it's called the NOCEBO effect. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2013 : 23:31:26
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quote:
Originally posted by alix
Tennis tom,
I really wish I would have not seen any TMS savvy doctor...
...There is no way for a doctor to say after 15 minutes maximum with 100% certainty it is TMS and your brain knows it.
...I have read through old posts things like: I visited Dr.X. He said it is TMS and I was pain free after leaving his practice. It is a miracle!
The same people post a few weeks later complaining about the same pain and looking for the next "thing".
My brain is different then yours, when any doctor tells me there is nothing wrong with me I am happy and believe him, never coming back unless there is something really wrong with me.
There are many names at this site's "MEMBER" list of people who have come here, gotten better and never returned.
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eric watson
USA
601 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2013 : 06:00:42
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yes i really like alixs style of getting the dirt
thank you alix-you know i believe in you
but can i see who those people are?
i go all the time and see folks that dont get it for a while
but they come around-your abservations are a well looked into science though
if we knew who all those people were maybe we can heal them -see
bless you
ps-tom good to see the knowledge roaring my friend
and alix-long time buddy-doing lots of things guys
i see all of us as founding fathers-it was sarno first but now all of us -we just keep showing the newbies-the white rabbit |
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gailnyc
USA
80 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2013 : 11:21:59
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quote:
Yes, but that is because he said my hip was NOT TMS and to get a hip replacement. If he had said it was TMS I would be running now, it's called the NOCEBO effect.
Ah, well, that is a concern for me. I'm 95% sure it is TMS and hopefully he will simply confirm this. |
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alix
USA
434 Posts |
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Topic |
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TMS Update - Message from Monte Hueftle
