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pspa123
672 Posts |
 Posted - 01/18/2013 : 14:27:48
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| For people who need more than "knowledge penicillin," these seem to be at least two of the reallistic psychotherapeutic possibilities. I know James recently posted (I am summarizing, hopefully accurately) that depth psychology has fallen somewhat out of vogue but that there is good evidence to support its use in the context of chronic pain, but the discussion didn't seem to gain traction in the context of that thread. I know there is no "right" answer here, but I would be interested in thoughts, experiences, etc. about the relative efficacy of these seemingly quite different paradigms, or whether one is better for certain issues, etc. etc. The reason for asking is that I have sort of reached the conclusion that I need some additional help with my own issues, but I am confused about which direction to go. |
Edited by - pspa123 on 01/18/2013 14:32:21 |
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lmcox
24 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2013 : 14:34:17
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CBT is great. I have used it to successfully overcome several phobias as well as nail biting and panic attacks. CBT and the Sarno Method are actually very similar in that they isolate problems and "unpack" them, creating a mental space in the issue that will really help you heal.
I can recommend several CBT books, and can give you some guidelines if you're looking for a therapist. You really need someone who is willing to put a timeframe on your therapeutic process, and that will give you "homework." TMS is not an issue that gets much better with traditional "talk therapy," so you have to make sure the therapist is not going to just sit there and indulge your pain / anxiety problems and help you "cope" with them. You want someone who is going to help you GET RID of the problems. |
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chickenbone
Panama
398 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2013 : 15:14:01
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I was just thinking of beginning a thread about depth psychology vs CBT. I believe that Dr. James is correct that people who have young childhood trauma or deeply ingrained patterns of inappropriate thinking probably need some form of depth psychology. Let me start by saying that I did CBT on my own about 25 years ago using the books and workbook of one of the pioneers, Dr. David Burns. This worked very well for me for a long time. However, it never cured my latent tendency to the chronic pain of TMS. I regard CBT as more for people with lightweight issues or who need something to get them through, but it usually does not get at the root of a lot of more serious problems. It can be very useful for people who have just fallen into patterns of negative thinking. At the time, I had fairly completely repressed the memories of my childhood trauma and wasn't really aware of how bad my issues really were, although I probably suspected. It was after my sister died at 58 of severe alcoholism that I had to admit to myself that the problems within my family were very serious. I was deeply mortified by my sister's death. I think I realized that something equally bad could happen to me even though I don't drink or do drugs. And it did - PAIN. This is what is forcing me to act.
I just spent about 6 hours reading the website that Dr. James recommended for information about EMDR. I really think this may work for me, at least it is worth a shot. I read about how it can reprogram painful and often crippling young childhood memories and all the negative, mal-adaptive patterns that arise from them. However, for me, it will take longer than that for say, an adult with PTSD. I plan to order Francine Shapiro's book "Getting Past Your Past", just to get the flavor of the approach. This will be a start for me. I discovered, not surprisingly, that there are no EMDR therapists in Panama, so I will need to plan for about a 6 month stay in the US. There are several therapists in the areas in which I have someone with whom to stay. Thank-you to Dr. James. By the way, Dr. James, if you see this post, are you a certified EMDR therapist also? Just curious.
What I really like about it is that it is step by step clear and concise. It is also well documented on the internet and in books. I have also read several books about how the brain processes information and it makes sense to me. I could also even order the book course for therapists if I desire. That way I can be sure the therapist I choose is doing the job correctly. |
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alix
USA
434 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2013 : 15:22:06
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| I am sure that Dr.Alexander will chime in but having just read his book, I found fascinating that as a CBT practitioner himself for many years he had been unable to resolve his own chronic pain issue. It is only after he started applying in depth "obsolete" psychotherapy that he finally addressed his own problem. |
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chickenbone
Panama
398 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2013 : 18:40:20
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| Very intersting, Alix, thanks. |
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bryan3000
USA
513 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2013 : 19:48:58
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Great thread...
I think CBT is at the root of almost everything Sarno preaches, despite some of his contemporaries focusing on the Freudian aspects.
Sarno himself says it's nearly impossible to unearth all of the traumas, but to recognize pain (and anxiety) as emotional and psychological in nature.
From there, you must have a way to ACT. Acting is where CBT comes in. And while some may benefit from additional depth psychology work, many
don't and I still believe even if you can uncork past traumas... you STILL have to change your mindset.
Claire weeks said... (paraphrased) .... while finding an original cause for nervous illness may be interesting, I rarely find it to be helpful.
The patient is concerned about the state he is in now.
I'm a big believer that there isn't a one-size answer for us all. But, I think behavioral work is at the heart of why almost everyone heals.
Hillbilly pointed me to the success stories a long time ago and told me to find a common thread. That common thread was losing fear of the symptoms.
(A Claire Weekes and Sarno mainstay.) Losing fear of symptoms takes behavioral therapy for most of us, imo.
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Dr James Alexander
Australia
127 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2013 : 20:25:42
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Chickenbone- yes, i am an EMDR practitioner and supervisor. I dont think you would need to be receiving the service for 6 months. Seeing that you would be traveling to receive it, it may be that you are able to schedule several appointments in a week and get through the process more quickly than with weekly sessions.
Re CBT- the irony is that dealing with the erroneous beliefs around chronic pain (as per Sarno's and my books) is a cognitive process- psychoeducational, and it is very necessary. This alone will alleviate a lot of people's suffering, and testifies to the benefits of cognitive behavioural approaches. But for some people, they will need to go beyond the mere processing of information which a cognitve approach can offer, and will need to deal with the deeper emotional issues. There are several psychological approaches which are helpful with this: brief psychoanalytic therapy, EMDR, and i have recently come across Coherence Therapy (previously called Depth Oriented Brief Therapy)- its worth googling this as well, as its aproach is entirely consistent with te TMS model, and it deals with both physical and emotional symptoms. I've just finished reading its main book and and undertaking some training modules on the net, and can testify that its basic premises are the same as Sarno's- and it provides an experiential therapeutic approach that can focus on both physical and emotional pain. So, it could be worth looking up the webpage for Coherence Therapy and contacting them to find a practitioner in your part of the world. In summary, my view at this point as to what therapies can help with TMS pain: brief psychoanalytic, EMDR, and Coherence Therapy (and more broadly, any depth psychology approach which is able to incorporate and work in tandem with the TMS model).
James |
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aconner
USA
10 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2013 : 15:51:55
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I would love to learn more about CBT.
lmcox, can you recommend any particular books on the topic? Eager to learn more... |
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bryan3000
USA
513 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2013 : 16:35:38
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CBT
My suggestions... anything by Claire Weekes. (She was the pioneer, even before Sarno.)
Anxiety and Phobia Workbook.
I also recommend the site AnxietyCentre.com. (note spelling) I was referred to it and it's a wealth of excellent information on anxiety. (TMS)
I'm sure others will have many more. |
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lmcox
24 Posts |
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chickenbone
Panama
398 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2013 : 17:39:47
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Thank-you Dr. James. I will do the same research on Coherence Therapy, I actually planned to anyway. I was encouraged to hear you say that it may not take as long as 6 months and I could schedule multiple appointments per week.
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Depth psychology and CBT
