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jennypeanut
103 Posts |
 Posted - 01/13/2013 : 11:59:08
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Hello again. Yes, here I go again with the anti-D topic...
I know that in order to fully heal from TMS we need to get off the meds used to "help" the pain. Concerning my physical pain I have done this and had the experience many speak of - one day I noticed my pain was gone. It has been incredible really. Many of you have helped me over the last 9 months or so. I've talked before about my use of antidepressants.
12 years ago I saw a psychiatrist. I am one of the TMSers with severe childhood trauma so I'm in that percentage Sarno talks about. I have been in and out of talk therapy for 20 years now. Anyway the psychiatrist (of course) put me on an antidepressant that "worked" till about 3 years ago. Since then I've tried 4 others (and am still on one now - cymbalta). I'm extremely frustrated because they mostly make me feel "drugged up". I know most of you will say it's all placebo anyway, but they do make you feel something. Mine have made me feel out if it, forgetful and extremely sweaty (all common side effects). I hate it. One of my main issues is anxiety stemming from health fears. So you give an antidepressant to help someone deal with health anxiety and the drug causes health issues, which increases the anxiety. Ironic, eh?
So, I've let the anxiety get the best of me and looked on the internet about long term side effects of these meds and have found frightening things. I know this is counter-productive to healing. I know. But I've done it and freaked myself out. I've also read horror stories of people coming off cymbalta (even the right way), and speculations as to weather the brain can even manage itself once off of them.
One of my family members has been diagnosed with early onset dementia. I know - a "dis-ease" but I still fear it. Because the one I'm currently on makes me feel very forgetful, I often wonder if it's permanent.
As you can tell, I'm not in a good place. Have any of you come off anti-Ds after long-term use?
Of course I would only come off under Dr. supervision but I doubt my psychiatrist will even work with me. I feel like psychiatrists hook you into the drugs - coming off of them can be such a nightmare - and before you know it you are basically hooked for life. Money for them, money for the drug companies.
Please don't tell me anything to freak me out. I'm already in that state. I just need some solid advice/opinions. I fear coming off of them - - - |
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pspa123
672 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2013 : 12:05:49
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| I don't know where you are but there is a doctor in California, Stuart Shipko, who specializes in helping people get off ADs. I believe he will consult long distance. My own experience is with benzo withdrawal after long term use which I believe has some similarities. It was tough, no doubt, but by going very slowly it was manageable. |
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TaylorJoh
USA
113 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2013 : 13:27:37
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Hi Jenny,
I was on wellbutrin for two years. I went off VERY slow and you know, I don't remember anything about it really. So, it must not have been to terrible. This was before I ever googled stuff, so I didnt' have anything to cause me fear. I was just told I had to wean down slowly so that I wouldn't have any adverse effects.
I have also weaned down from VERY high doses of oxycontin, hydromorphone and vicodin. And you know, all I can remember is the absolute terror of going into withdrawal and PAWS (post acute withdrawal syndrome) that can last months. Of course, I knew all about this because I googled it! But you know, I don't even remember withdrawal or PAWS, all I can remember is the absolute terror of attempting it.
I have also stopped anti-seizure medications which is supposed to be a hellish experience and I felt nothing.
That isn't to say that there will not be any withdrawal, anxiety or discomfort, it comes with the territory, and I truly believe that is just a sign you're going off to fast.
I do feel that I bounced back very well after getting off some of the most emotionally and physically addicting medication on the planet. And I can say the only excruciating part of it all, was the fear of actually doing it. As that is all I can remember of the experience.
Unless your AD meds are causing you problems, you may want to allow yourself to calm down before attempting to wean down. I remember some very good advice I got here, when it concerns coming off meds, slow and steady wins the race.
Also, having confidence that you're mind is the most powerful and amazing organ, that it has an ability to heal and regulate itself chemically will help you tremendously in this journey.
I would also like to add one more thing. This is just MHO, but I think it is a big mistake to read personal stories that are not from people who know and understand TMS. I can't tell you how utterly terrified I've been reading accounts from people that don't know about TMS. It causes me to just be paralyzed with fear. But reading stories or advice from seasoned TMSers just seems to take all the weight off my shoulders, I can start to breath again and my stomach unravels lol. They give me confidence and allays my fears.
Hopefully another TMSer can give you advice. I'm not feeling well right now as I'm on heavy medication again (lol) due to intestinal blockage, so not sure how much sense I've made.
But this is the first place I came when my TMS monster reared it's ugly head. I didn't google my symptoms except how to spell esophagus lol. I know that I will get good advice that won't send me into a tailspin.
You will be OK, just believe in the power of your mind.
Taylor
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2013 : 14:23:06
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quote:
Originally posted by pspa123
I don't know where you are but there is a doctor in California, Stuart Shipko, who specializes in helping people get off ADs.
Stuart Shipko's website: http://www.stuartshipko.com/ |
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chickenbone
Panama
398 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2013 : 19:58:09
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Hi Jennypeanut,
You sound a lot like me. I have a lot of health anxiety, had some heavy trauma in early childhood. I have been told by Psychiatrists that I probably would never get off at least some meds. Let me first start by saying, and I donīt mean to be a smart ass, my husband is a doctor, so I have learned mostly NOT to listen to doctors about much of anything. That said, I have always resisted going on the newer antidepressants. I really feel that the older ones are safer and more effective. I donīt trust drug company propaganda either. Most Psychiatrists will want to put you on the newer ones because of their drugs reps.
Now to my own experiences with AD drugs. I never took the newer ones which have more side effects. The only reason I stayed on a low dose of amitriptiline is because of the sedation side effect which is what, I think, most people are after anyway. Being able to sleep well is half the battle. I donīt think any of the AD drugs help depression at all. But they probably do help somewhat with anxiety and sleep problems. Also, no matter what people say or what you read on the internet, the side effects of a relatively low dose are not bad. I have been on them since I was in my early 40īs and am in my early 60,s now. I was off for a period of 2 years, but started them again because of sleep problems. I went off them VERY slowly when I wanted to, this is key, and did not have a lot of problems. You might keep in mind that very early childhood trauma is extremely difficult to overcome, so donīt be embarrassed if you need some meds. I take very little, but do take some when I need it. Just make sure you follow your TMS program, recognize and accept the need to change because that is what will keep the meds to an absolute minimum. I think it is just bad when people use meds so they can avoid doing the personal work.
Personally, I donīt expect to completely heal from TMS, it has been so much a part of my history. I am actually grateful to it because it is the only thing that ever really caused me to make a serious effort to change. If I was younger, this might be a realistic goal. Right now, I just want to keep moving forward and so far I am happy with my progress. You should relax and be extremely grateful that you saw the TMS light. But please follow your own path, learn from others, but never compare yourself to others. |
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Dr James Alexander
Australia
127 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2013 : 20:08:48
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hi Jenny. Any suggestions i can make to you here are those of a PhD in psychology, and not of a physician- so this is in no way medical advice, and should not be taken in that light. However, i have had a great many clients over the years being on and coming off psych drugs, and it is something that i've been studying for around 30 years. First, everyone is different. Some people can go on/come off/change dosage levels without any problems at all; and others will suffer a great deal with each of these changes. How people respond to any substance which effects the cns depends on their genetic loading of specific liver enzymes (see my webpage: www.drjamesalexander-psychologist.com) under FAQ (under 'MORE') and then go to the sections on psych drugs and in particular, pharmacogenetics. As such, there is no real way of predicting whether you will have an easy or a hard time coming off the AD. Therefore, as stated already, 'slow and steady wins the race'- take it easy, go slowly, only reduce to the next level when you feel ready and able to.
In his book,'The Antidepressant Fact Book, psychiatrist Peter Breggin gives some excellent advice on how to come off psych drugs- its worth getting this book from your local library, and only copy the withdrawal guide. If you are not wanting to be frightened at this point, do not read the rest of his book (until you are off the drug). Breggin suggests the 10% method, ie. reduction of 10% every 10 days or so. You can also look up Prof David Healy's SSRI withdrawal protocol- he suggests a slow method, but if this is too hard or not manageable, he suggests a switch-over approach whereby you can switch to a longer acting SSRI (fluoxetine- 'Prozac'), as having a longer half life, it is easier to come off (see link at end of my 'the problem with pills' under FAQ). And there is also an excellent withdrawal guide ('Coming off')provided by The Ithica Project (links on my webpage at the bottom of 'What are your views of psych drugs?' under FAQ.
In terms of permanent changes to the brain from ADs, Healy (a UK professor of psychiatry) states that around 95% of people can succeed in getting off them- the remaining 5% will live with permanent withdrawal effects if they stay off it. My observation is that the longer people have been on them (eg. 15-20 years), the more likely they are to be amongst the 5% who may not succeed in getting off them due to (apparently permanent ) brain changes- but not always. If you approach any other health intervention with a 95% chance of success, you'd be pretty happy about it. As such, i'd suggest dont worry too much about not succeeding in getting off it due to brain changes- the odds are clearly in your favour, and there is a good chance that once clear of the drug, your brain will ultimately reestablish its own equilibrium of neurotransmitters etc. Research by Kirsch does suggest that the therapeutic results of AD's are primarily a placebo effect, however, this does not mean they are inert substances- they are clearly psychoactive, and do create changes in brain functioning and subjective mood states.
The goal of the slow and steady approach is to avoid withdrawal effects. These can be very unpleasant and disturbing. So, you go as slow as you need to in order to avoid these. As with the whole proposition of coming off them, each step of the way needs to be YOUR choice- only begin the process if/when you want to, and only reduce further when you want to. You need to have a sense of control over the process. Most GPs and psychiatrists (if they are supportive of people coming off at all) will generally pass on the advice which the drug companies have given them, ie. you should be able to come off within 2-3 weeks. For many people, this is a complete misnomer, and will only result in i) withdrawal effects, but failing to see it as that , and therefore ii) mistakenly concluding that this proves that you need to remain on the drugs, iii) becoming phobic about the prospect of getting off them, and iv) choosing to stay on them out of fear. (is it only conspiracy theorists who wonder whether the drug companies actually want this to happen, so they have customers for life??).
As such, my suggestions (ie. that of Breggin, Healy etc) are more conservative in approach than most physicians- you can usually take their advised withdrawal time-frame and double it (3-6 months is not a silly time frame). If you can undergo withdrawal with the support of your physician (neednt be a psychiatrist), excellent. If not, then i'd suggest that you find a health professional (eg. GP, counsellor, psychologist, clinical social worker etc) who is able to support this process. Your 20 years of talk therapy also suggests that there are emotional issues underlying, and perhaps independent of, the drug side effects. It can be hard to untangle these from each other. If you do succeed in getting off the AD, it could be worth seeking psychotherapy which is effective- my personal preference, based on research results, is EMDR (see under FAQ on my website), especially when it comes to issues arising from traumatic experiences- often the case in regards to childhood, adolescence experiences etc. As such, you may like to consider pursuing this as well- but i'd wait til i was clear of the withdrawal process.
At any time in your withdrawal process, if you feel withdrawal effects, you have 2 choices:- i) remain on the same dosage level and try to tough-out the withdrawal effects, waiting for them to end (all the time reminding yourself of what they are, ie. you arent actually going crazy, and it doesnt prove you need to be on this stuff for life), or ii) if you cant tolerate the withdrawal effects, go back to your most recent dosage level- wait until you have felt stable for 1-2 weeks, and then recommence your withdrawal process at a lower rate of reduction. There are no medals awarded for rushing this.
As stated earlier- you need to be in control of this process- it has to be a choice that you are willing to own if you are going to proceed with it. Not all people find it hard to come off ADs- some find it really easy. The odds are in your favour of succeeding, especially if you havent been on them for a great many years. And finally, there are certain foods (those rich in choline) which are apparently helpful in the withdrawal process, as they boost acetycholine in the brain- apparently, its a high cholesterol diet for the withdrawal time only- you can look this up on the net. And none of this is to be taken as medical advice- always discuss medical issues with a suitably qualified practitioner.
good luck!
James |
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jennypeanut
103 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2013 : 22:01:30
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Thank you all so much for your replies.
Taylor - You have given me some courage. I had not thought about reading other people's stories who didn't know about TMS. Nor had I considered that just knowing about withdrawals could influence my own experience. I have experienced withdrawals first hand when my child was hospitalized and I was up a number of nights in a row, forgetting my medicine a few years ago. Basically I accidentally went "cold turkey". It was a complete nightmare. I suppose the fear of experiencing that again scares me. It's funny you say you don't remember much about the process. My dad took AntiDs for a number of years and I asked him today what it was like to come off it - he doesn't remember either!
Shawnsmith - I'm on the east coast. :(
Chickenbone - funny name! I like that you see all of this in shades of grey. It's all a unique approach to the person. People say it's all placebo here. I don't agree it's ALL placebo.
Dr. J: As stated I've been on them 12 years. So, it is a while. Unfortunately that 5% frightens me. I wish I did not know that. However I will try to erase that from my memory. I'm assuming they were prob. taking much stronger drugs like Lithium. However, I wonder if the people suffering from withdrawals permanently are actually suffering from TMS. I know most of my TMS pain has been from something like an injury that should have healed but hasn't.
Well, we shall see how this goes... |
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chickenbone
Panama
398 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2013 : 22:26:17
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"If you are not wanting to be frightened at this point, do not read the rest of his book (until you are off the drug)."
Come, come, Dr. James, did you just accidentally frighten us, or is it that you just could not resist pushing your own agenda??
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bryan3000
USA
513 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2013 : 00:45:26
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Chickenbone.
Bregin is known to have an extreme view on ADa. He's made a career of it. He's probably right about some things but very extreme.
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chickenbone
Panama
398 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2013 : 06:46:57
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| Bryan3000, I agree with you 1000%. |
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Back2-It
USA
438 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2013 : 10:38:18
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I will tell you a story.
When I had a complete breakdown due to health anxiety and no doctor being able to tell me why my right shoulder and back had seized up (because they did not bother to even palpitate there when I complained of stiffness), I ended up being put on Cymbalta and Ativan. That could probably have been avoided had I been told I had stiff and contracted back muscles, but I was sent off for every test you can imagine, including for MS.
I too read the exact same horror stories about withdrawal from both, but especially from Cymbalta.
What I didn't understand due to my TMS/anxiety/fear personality at the time is that these people who post on the withdrawal forums are self-selected, and, if you read carefully, you will see that they have many other problems, including on-going anxiety and addiction problems.
The first time I went on the Cymbalta, I had every "side-effect" listed, so after a month and a half I went off of it; same with the Ativan.
I know it goes against some of the purists on the board, but I cannot help thinking that had I stayed on both for the prescribed amount of time, I would have been able to calm my thoughts and work on my anxiety. I had already purchased MBP. So, then, my symptoms worsened, I got an MRI of my back because of Dr. Google, and then discovered a disc herniation, which then made my symptoms even worse until I was literally twisted out of shape in my torso.
I went back on Cymbalta in a calmer state, and, guess what, no side-effects. Not one.
After I calmed my thoughts, and honestly decided that the Cymbalta was doing me no good, after a year I tapered off. At first I counted the beads out; then I "eyeballed" about half, then a quarter, etc.. I even bought clear, empty plastic capsules to do it. Finally, after about two months of it it became too much of a chore and just went about my days. I actually forgot about it doing it. Didn't think about it. Guess what? No withdrawals or symptoms.
The anxiety over the withdrawal symptoms and long term effects are needless worry, because it involves something that might not apply to a person physiologically in either the short or the long term. And, to be blunt, you could be hit by a truck tomorrow, so even today's worry is useless. Regular aspirin use is proving to be dangerous, and how often were we told to "take an aspirin a day", and by whom were we told? Experts of one stripe or another.
I do doubt, however, the effectiveness of either SNRI or SSRIs in treating anxiety, beyond the effect of a placebo. But placebos do work, and I possibly could have saved myself misery by accepting the meds for awhile and working on the mental tension. But here I was an expert, because I read it on the internet.
The answer lies, even in this withdrawal debate, to changing thinking, being in tune with your body, and, in many cases, disregarding the so-called experts.
"Bridges Freeze Before Roads" |
Edited by - Back2-It on 01/14/2013 10:51:46 |
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chickenbone
Panama
398 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2013 : 11:32:53
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Hi Back2-It,
I really enjoyed reading your post and your hearing your story. There is a lot to be said for something temporarily to calm the mind so that you can work on your anxiety. I believe that most of these drugs were really not meant for long term use. I think our culture became very drug-based for awhile and there is now a backlash against this and rightfully so. But I think drugs have a place when they are really needed and used properly.
I have often wondered about the relationship between TMS and health anxiety, or if there is any. Can I ask you how you dealt with your health anxiety? It sounds like you have made a lot of progress. I would be interested in your thoughts on the subject. I am fairly new to this forum, so if you have previously posted this information, maybe you could provide me with the link. |
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pspa123
672 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2013 : 11:38:04
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| I agree Peter Breggin can be extreme and overly dogmatic, but in my view he is to be commended as someone with great personal courage and integrity, he was willing to speak truth to power at a time when most in the psychiatric community were just preaching the gospel handed down by drug companies, without critical thinking. |
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Back2-It
USA
438 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2013 : 12:08:54
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quote:
Originally posted by chickenbone
Hi Back2-It,
I really enjoyed reading your post and your hearing your story. There is a lot to be said for something temporarily to calm the mind so that you can work on your anxiety. I believe that most of these drugs were really not meant for long term use. I think our culture became very drug-based for awhile and there is now a backlash against this and rightfully so. But I think drugs have a place when they are really needed and used properly.
I have often wondered about the relationship between TMS and health anxiety, or if there is any. Can I ask you how you dealt with your health anxiety? It sounds like you have made a lot of progress. I would be interested in your thoughts on the subject. I am fairly new to this forum, so if you have previously posted this information, maybe you could provide me with the link.
Chickenbone ---that ranks right up there with jennypeanut as the coolest names.
Health anxiety is anxiety. I would never have gotten health anxiety had I not been hardwired from birth or as a little kid wrong and dealt with fear and stress incorrectly. Again, thoughts. Health anxiety manifested because, even at a very young age, I would get these unexplained maladies, the worst and most frightening being sharp chest pains. Fortunately, this was back in the days when your pediatrician actually knew you as a person (kid) and actually examined you without sending you off for tests and imaging, which really didn't exist outside of X-ray back then, anyway. He rightly concluded too much CO2, and probably rightly concluded I was a nervous, anxious little kid. The cure: breath into a paper bag, which calmed the anxiety, too, it seemed for me.
My story on here does not talk about health anxiety, but you can believe it is the result of TMS/anxiety and fear compounded, because as I got older and the stresses more, my physical manifestations became bolder and stronger and more persistent.
Once you learn about anxiety, and what it does to every person's body, then you can reduce and eliminate your health anxiety. Do things organically go wrong, sure. But it is when you turn a twitch into MS or ALS it is due to not thinking right, which, is not your fault, but can be worked on and defeated.
I have learned that I can be easily influenced by certain things; that is why I had all the side effects of Cymbalta the first go and none the second after gaining more control over my thoughts, due to this board, its wise posters, Dr. Sarno's explanation of spines, and serious meditation and change in things I had to change and accepting things I couldn't and learning how to deal with day to day stresses that kept reactivating old pain.
Read Ace1's affirmations. They nail it.
"Bridges Freeze Before Roads" |
Edited by - Back2-It on 01/14/2013 12:12:54 |
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Dr James Alexander
Australia
127 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2013 : 14:09:22
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hi Chickenbone. My agenda in regards to psych drugs is simply for people to be able to make informed choices- I have no problem with people choosing to put whatever they want into their own bodies, as long as it harms no one else; and as long as they are exercising informed consent as to potential benefits/side effects. At any one time i have quite a few clients on all sorts of psych drugs, and they remain un-harassed by me. I certainly did not intend to frighten anyone with the mention of 95% of people being able to successfully get off ADs- as stated, if there were any other medical procedures with this level of success, personally, i'd be pretty enthusiastic for it. As you note, i did warn Jennypeanut to not read Breggin's book(s) at this time, as i think they could frighten her, and this is not my intention. She doesnt need to be reading a great deal of info about potential adverse effects etc at this time. Allow me to reiterate- the vast majority of people can succeed in getting off ADs. The odds are very favourable. I have worked with many people who have been on ADs for similar time-frames and seen them succeed in getting off them.
James |
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jennypeanut
103 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2013 : 15:29:05
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Thank you guys. Back-2-it - I really appreciate your posts. I hate health anxiety. Wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.
Dr. J: I know you meant to help and I appreciate your help. I forgot to add that I have had EMDR therapy and currently still do.
All: I met with my (very good) psychiatrist today and we are beginning the weaning process. She is weaning me 15 mg. every 2-3 weeks depending on how I feel. She thinks it will likely take 3 1/2 months to get me off. So very slow and steady. She also has me on a vitamin plan, exercise plan, and a "sleep hygiene" plan (1-2 hours wind down routine). I'm very thankful for her thoroughness. So here we go! |
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Dr James Alexander
Australia
127 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2013 : 15:50:32
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Jennypeanut- great to hear you have a supportive psychiatrist! And that she is aware of the need to do is slowly, and to build in exercise, vitamins, etc- sounds very comprehensive and wise. You are adding all the elements needed to succeed with this process, and remember, the odds are clearly in your favour.
James |
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Back2-It
USA
438 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2013 : 20:59:18
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quote:
Originally posted by jennypeanut
Thank you guys. Back-2-it - I really appreciate your posts. I hate health anxiety. Wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.
Jennypeanut ( I just love saying that), you will probably find that working on your anxiety will forever reduce and eliminate your health anxiety. Dr. Clare Weekes, in her advice about anxiety, does not say keep a stiff upper lip and tough it out and "snap out of it". In fact, she is quite critical of the uninformed who place those exhortations on people who are suffering. Take something to settle you down, she advises, so you can think straight and then do the mental work. She was writing in the pre SSRI and SNRI days.
I do think that Chickenbone (love saying that too) is right, in that an old fashioned sedative is probably most effective because when physical symptoms do break though and there is no pathological explanation it frightens many literally out of their wits.
Maybe you have reached a stage where it will pay to focus more on cognitive behavior, if you have not all ready. Steven C Hayes has an excellent book on that, called, "Get out of your Mind and into Your Life". It says a lot of what is said here, but he is clear and concise about how to think, writes clearly, and is a great update on Weekes' work.
Like Balto and Hillbilly and Ace1 and TT and Art and so many have said: it is the thinking. Could be a bumper sticker: "It is your thoughts, stupid". Except we are not stupid, only uninformed and, in many cases, overly sensitized.
It should be the effort of everybody on here to encourage MindBody education in high school or earlier. A couple of hours of understanding early in life could save years of suffering and enough to pay the national debt for a year.
Everybody pre-teen knows where babies come from thanks to the internet and to use a condom or BC, but so few of the entire population knows the origin of pain in the body due to the normal and exceptional stresses in life, which are the tips of the emotional iceberg that may need to be turned.
"Bridges Freeze Before Roads" |
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wrldtrv
666 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2013 : 22:23:38
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How quickly you can wean off an AD depends a lot on the drug's half life. Effexor, another SNRI has a very short half life so is supposed to be discontinued very gradually. Another SNRI, Pristiq, stays in the system a bit longer. I don't know about Cymbalta.
I'm sort of in the same boat, re: considering going off Clomipramine-25 mg, the lowest dose. I'm also on Lexapro 20mg. For years, I was on just the one drug, eg, an SSRI, but because the Lex had seemed to poop out, my psych thought Clom would be a good choice (because of my hypochondria) to boost the lex. It generally was, but I would rather not be on two drugs. I'm one who has never had much in the way of side effects from these meds and so that's not the issue. But even with the meds, I still have anxiety and hypo on a regular basis, though maybe at a reduced level. What I really wonder is whether what's working is the placebo effect rather than the drug. Anyway, I intend to wean off the Clomipramine soon and see what happens. By the way, Clom was introduced in 1962 and is considered a pretty good drug; time tested.
Regarding big pharma, we are justified in being paranoid. I work in healthcare and I have also read a lot about the subject and there is no doubt that pharma co's are no more trustworthy than any other profit-seeking corporation. Yes, they will do whatever it takes to make as much $ as possible. Bribe docs with free gifts, meals, vacations; withhold negative data from drug studies from the FDA and the public; brainwash gullible tv commercial watchers to demand the newest, most expensive copycat drug from their doc rather than the equally (or more)effective generic; the list goes on. Remember the Vioxx and Celebrex fiascos of 10 yrs ago. People used to flock to Canada to buy much cheaper meds until the drug industry with the help of their paid for politicians tried to close off that avenue by saying these drugs were not safe! Big pharma and their politician surrougates also made sure that Medicare must pay full retail price for their drugs rather than using its buying power to force discounts, something every other country in the world does!
The more I read, the more I think the safer bet is to steer clear of the newest, the most hi-tech, the most expensive, whether drugs or tests or procedures, in favor of the cheaper and time-tested versions. The USA has all the latest gizmos, but it's life expectancy and health outcomes are far down the list of industrialized countries even though it pays at least twice as much per capita. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2013 : 22:44:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Back2-It
...Dr. Clare Weekes, in her advice about anxiety, does not say keep a stiff upper lip and tough it out and "snap out of it". In fact, she is quite critical of the uninformed who place those exhortations on people who are suffering. Take something to settle you down, she advises, so you can think straight and then do the mental work. She was writing in the pre SSRI and SNRI days.
Great post B2IT. I've taken sedatives several times in my life to get through rough patches. I had no ill effects from Librium and took a mild dose of Celexa, experimenting with it for TMS pain. I did have a bad panic reaction to Lexipro once, but some people swear by them. Nothing wrong with taking some sedatives to settle you down in the short term to be able to function and focus on TMS issues.
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chickenbone
Panama
398 Posts |
Posted - 01/15/2013 : 10:59:08
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Great posts, wrldtrv, TT and Back2-It. These have really helped me a lot in sorting out my TMS pain body. Thanks for the book recommendation, Back2-IT.
I want to just make a comment on Big Pharma, the FDIC and drugs in general. The FDIC is owned lock, stock and barrel by the drug companies. But I think most people know this. It was well known that Vioxx caused heart attacks, but the drug company got it approved anyway. They lobbied hard to stop it from being taken off the market. It is estimated that it caused, in the US, 140,000 heart attacks, from which at least 60,000 Americans died. What is really bad now is the osteoporosis drugs that are killing people. Reclast infusions have killed over 350 people in the US last year. I belong to a forum for osteoporosis and you just can't believe the things that are happening with these drugs.
Also, I knew 2 people who died after taking a particular antibiotic (I don't remember the name). One was my cousin. My husband told me (who is a doctor) about this drug that should be used only in emergencies because a possible, but rare side effect was A-plastic anemia, which is fatal.
I always do my own research on any new drug and I try to only take the older, well tested ones. |
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Antidepressants & psyciatrists
