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johhnyblotter
USA
6 Posts |
 Posted - 09/15/2012 : 10:23:35
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Hi folks. I have been reading Sarno's book and reading information from Dr. Howard Schubiner's site. My question is, is there EVER a time when someone like Dr. Sarno or Schubiner, or anyone else who is a real believer in TMS, would suggest that a discectomy is an appropriate course of action? In my case, I had the "snapping" in the back scenario, which Dr. Sarno talks about as being a typical thing in the patients he sees, and I went to the emergency room three times within a week. My primary complaint is the feeling of a rock in the middle of my foot when I walk, and heavniness and some weakness in my left leg. The neurosurgeon who saw me said that the MRI was very consistent with the symptoms I was describing, and ascribed the "snapping" to a ruptured disc, L5/S1, to go along with my other old rupture at L4/L5. He basically gave me two options: 1) Take dilauded and sit in bed for a month and see if it improves or 2) get surgery.
Now, as of the last few days I stopped taking the dilauded and started trying to go about somewhat normal activities as much as possible. I have been reading Sarno's HBP and have been immersing myself in the ideas as much as possible, and I have had a small measure of initial success. One thing that's very difficult to wrap my my around though: Right at the moment I wake up, I feel the rock in my foot. Would TMS be so hard wired into my brain that my brain is telling me I have these problems as I sleep and when I wake up?
I suppose my other caveat is that physical therapy has always, until now, worked to resolve my sciatica problems, which have been quite severe in their recurrences. So based on those past results, there's quite a strong feeling that the physical state of the back, and condition of the surrounding muscles have a great deal to do with the sciatic pain. And I know this goes against TMS. So, with all this information, my question still is, is there EVER a time when a discectomy would be recommended by a TMS therapist, or is the fact that the MRI matches my symptoms still irrelevant?
Thanks for any feedback.
About to get surgery...or maybe not... |
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eric watson
USA
601 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2012 : 11:49:53
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| Its still irrellevant -it was hard for me to wrap my mind around too-except for 1 thing i had back pain 24-7 for 15 yrs-now if there was an abnorality that needed surgery i suppose after i heard the good news i would have never healed but i did-i was 15 when it started i was 30 when it ended-now im 40 -10 yrs pain free and it came back-because i was cured 10 yrs prior i have no doubt i will be healed again-most days r good days on my rd back-i do have setbacks tho and before i never did-anyways from reading hbp i assume that the dr is looking for cancer since he explains away any disc rupture or hernia and so forth-the drs looked for two yrs on me and then found spondeolithesis i know thats not spelled right-the only thing the dr said might have a o.2 chance of being a problem but he also said it was so small a chance that it had to be ruled out too.i figure i was born with it-even though i have had some very real and scary football injurys and so forth....i still know that im on my rd to recovery because of the results and if you have had just small results thats a start -your already where 80 percent of people never seek-i know youll stay the course - |
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johhnyblotter
USA
6 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2012 : 11:57:00
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I am willing to stay the course. But not for ten years.
Ten years of fighting to feel better vs. surgery? I'll take surgery.
I am giving my all to this but I cannot live this way for months upon months.
I have improved my walking a bit and I'm going to see how much progress I can make. But when I read that discectomy has a 90% success rate, there's no way that won't be in the back of my mind. I do not want to go that route; I want to avoid it if at all possible. But a life where walking 10 blocks in a day is a major accomplishment is not the life for me. Does this mean I haven't accepted TMS 100%? No. I've accepted it, I just cannot predict with 100% certainty that it will work.
Life ain't easy.
About to get surgery...or maybe not... |
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eric watson
USA
601 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2012 : 12:11:00
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| Im sorry i was pain free for 10 yrs after i heard about the cure-i was in pain 15 before i heard of the cure-im really pain free now from where i was just a little while ago-i was on the surgery table 3 times in those 15 yrs (before i knew about hbp) nobody likes pain -did you read steveos re-post by glowgirl |
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SteveO
USA
272 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2012 : 12:12:37
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You ask THE question that a handful of doctors and all sufferers would love to know the answer to. The holy grail of answers. Can a herniated disc be the real cause of, and the solution to pain? This has been THE main point of contention, the thing Dr. Sarno brought to the forefront, the subject most contemplated by surgeons and sufferers alike. You can't make a blanket statement about it. Each case has to be taken one at a time.
However, Dr. Sarno found throughout his career that herniated disc material was "rarely the cause of back pain." As his career lengthened it became more clear to him that it did not cause pain, in most cases. But, like anything in life it must have a disclaimer. That's the reason I put the Henri Amiel quote in there, "The man who insists upon seeing with perfect clearness before he decides, never decides. Accept life, and you must accept regret."
Whatever you choose will bring you life experience that is invaluable to you. Life is a tough teacher that gives the test first and the lesson later. There has certainly been someone who has needed back surgery; an instance where back surgery was the right thing to do. I'm not a clinician, but in the 1500 people, or so, I spoke to while researching over the last 11 years, almost all of them were told by their doctors that they needed surgery, and none of them did. Not one. If you want one opinion I would ask what is your gut instinct? Do you fit the Type T profile? What is your life like now? Childhood? Do you meet the criteria for TMS? The decision must be weighed.
The snapping sound you hear means nothing. I sent that interview to you about her asking me about the rock feeling in my foot, it means nothing but often accompanies back pain. I not only had weakness in my leg, but have spoken to hundreds of other people who have. I also had a paralyzed leg; it was TMS.
Physical therapy always helped me too. But it was still TMS.
Has there ever ever ever been a time when a TMS doctor recommended surgery? Yes--I worked with a couple of people who were told they should just get the surgery. They didn't have the surgery and they are pain free today because they didn't listen. I've worked with several of them and I'm sure there are more out there. Has there been a time when a TMS doctor recommended surgery and it was necessary? We will never know because of the awesome power of the surgery as a placebo. You can't disprove a negative. And so the spinal mystery continues...
Steve
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johhnyblotter
USA
6 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2012 : 13:12:58
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Well, I do have an extremely unique past. I am bipolar, and have been hospitalized involuntary for manic epidsodes 5 times between age 29-34. During my manic episodes, I would get in such a manic state that I would tense up my body and walk around with horrifying spastic motions, trying to frighten people (I believed I could damage them just by the force and speed of the motions...it was quite extreme).. I'd be put in the hospital for this kind of thing. So, is extreme tension part of my past? Most definitely, way beyond the norm.
As far as type A personalities and low self esteem...well, I have fought long and hard to be stable with the bipolar symptoms. And I haven't been depressed in a few years. However, I come from a fairly well off family and am on disability, and living in partially subsidized housing. It isn't fancy, let's just say that. Also I have been working as a web programmer, and even though I manage to make some money at it, I am not really that good at it, and I don't really enjoy it, and I have major doubts about being able to craft a livelihood out of it. And the thoughts of trying to figure out what I am going to do with my life if programming doesn't work out, when I am almost 37 and can't walk very much, are weighing on me pretty heavily as well.
I have a quite a few childhood health issues as well. And accompanying these problems I have previously mentioned, I also tend to have quite a competitive streak. I am probably overly focused on the physical - when I have felt good I have always put a lot of time into running, weightlifting, etc...I would say I was moderately obsessed about building my body and physical form and dating good looking women. So there's definitely a competitive streak there. Really, there are any number of life elements from which someone could conclude that TMS is the issue.
I am still new to this approach. Steve, I re-read the repost by glowgirl and I realized I have been doing a lot of this stuff. I say "the pain isn't there" a lot when out walking, I think about all my psychological problems instead of the pain, I focus on relaxing, I focus on my hands, which are fine, I laugh at the ease of walking. Imagining myself running is a great idea - I did actually try to jog the other day for just a minute - I just told myself there was no reason I couldn't jog. And I started. But my leg was just too heavy and I couldn't really tolerate it. But I feel that after reading about half of Sarno's book, I am starting to get it.
So we'll see. My feeling now is if I can walk ten or fifteen blocks a day, and I don't need any pain pills, that that's a good enough reason to postpone surgery and give this a shot.
About to get surgery...or maybe not... |
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does an MRI mean anything?
