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abundance72
Australia
37 Posts |
 Posted - 06/08/2012 : 04:30:44
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I am 40 years old and have had back pain since my late teens. I have almost 3 year old twins whom I love very much but who have during the past year caused me some stress as it's a very demanding job and has had it's toll on me. My non stop never ending back pain seems to have gotten alot worse, I would describe it as chronic pain as it never ever leaves me. I have the pain in the thoracic area between the shoulder blades and running right across the centre of the back. I have had xrays over the years and they've always said there is nothing wrong. I am thinking of going for an MRI as i'm not totally convinced as it's very painful and I've been experiencing since February chest pains as well, like a dull ache which seems to run right through to the back area where it hurts. I am the type of person who gets very upset with issues and dwells on them and many times don't express my anger (I do to my husband and mother but I wouldn't dare to a friend or relative). I also always try to be a good person and never do anyone wrong. Almost every day I have had the worst back ache, and dull chest ache. I've got the John Sarno's "Healing Backpain" audio book and it's fantastic but it doesn't really tell me what to do? So I went and got Howard Schubiner's book and i'm going through it now, it's great but I haven't completed it yet. Since reading about John Sarno and Howard Schubiner I have probably felt worse?? I just don't know how to get rid of the fear I have, I keep thinking it's something really bad that I have. I have an appointment with a neurologist on Tuesday and i'm going to ask for an MRI as i've never had one. Wish me luck. Anyone have similar symptoms to me? 
Every Cell in my body vibrates with energy and health
Loving myself heals my life. I nourish my mind, body and soul
My body heals quickly and easily
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
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drh7900
USA
194 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2012 : 09:15:04
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I keep having to come in behind tennis tom saying "I agree! Buy SteveO's book!" lol
Seriously...it's a good read and he gives clear examples of how he overcame his pain. Everybody's TMS journey is going to be different. Some people, journaling is good...but then you have to ask, what kind of journaling? Some people need to get to the negative memories...others seem to feel better by focusing on good emotions. I think the key is discharging the inner rage in some way (through recognition of at least the emotions, if not the memories) and find ways to increase your positive emotion "bank". If your pain is feeling worse since reading all of that, there's a not-so-insignificant chance that your brain is rebelling against your acquisition of the knowledge of what it's up to. It could be trying to distract you from the truth and the emotions and back onto the body.
If they're not finding anything medically alarming it's probably TMS. If you get an MRI, be prepared to likely see some herniated or degenerative discs...possible compression on the nerves...all that fun jazz...but then accept it as normal and move along with TMS recovery.
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Dustin |
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Back2-It
USA
438 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2012 : 15:49:00
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quote:
Originally posted by abundance72
I am 40 years old and have had back pain since my late teens. I have almost 3 year old twins whom I love very much but who have during the past year caused me some stress as it's a very demanding job and has had it's toll on me. My non stop never ending back pain seems to have gotten alot worse, I would describe it as chronic pain as it never ever leaves me. I have the pain in the thoracic area between the shoulder blades and running right across the centre of the back. I have had xrays over the years and they've always said there is nothing wrong. I am thinking of going for an MRI as i'm not totally convinced as it's very painful and I've been experiencing since February chest pains as well, like a dull ache which seems to run right through to the back area where it hurts. I am the type of person who gets very upset with issues and dwells on them and many times don't express my anger (I do to my husband and mother but I wouldn't dare to a friend or relative). I also always try to be a good person and never do anyone wrong. Almost every day I have had the worst back ache, and dull chest ache. I've got the John Sarno's "Healing Backpain" audio book and it's fantastic but it doesn't really tell me what to do? So I went and got Howard Schubiner's book and i'm going through it now, it's great but I haven't completed it yet. Since reading about John Sarno and Howard Schubiner I have probably felt worse?? I just don't know how to get rid of the fear I have, I keep thinking it's something really bad that I have. I have an appointment with a neurologist on Tuesday and i'm going to ask for an MRI as i've never had one. Wish me luck. Anyone have similar symptoms to me?
Every Cell in my body vibrates with energy and health
Loving myself heals my life. I nourish my mind, body and soul
My body heals quickly and easily
Dear abundance,
The thoracic "bad" back club seems to be growing. I do not mean to make light of your pain, because it is real pain. You can look up my history, if you wish, and it will give you some assurance that you are not alone.
I could save you the trouble of reading through my posts, by telling you that back pain due to TMS/anxiety can strike at any level of the back. Mostly, though, it does not strike the mid-back, so when you first get these strange symptoms you are really perplexed, as are a good many doctors, I might add.
First, a bit of anatomy: when your thoracic back muscles are contracted or tight, they pull, yank and twist on your chest and abdominal muscles. Because the muscles that are contracted are used for support when standing, sitting and walking, about the only time some people get relief is when they are prone, and then it's not entire relief.
You will find little info about thoracic back issues, and that is the scariest thing. You think that you are unique among sufferers. I did. Wow, what an accomplishment! How come I couldn't have a good old-fashioned L-5 problem? I want to caution you about going for an MRI. I went for one, and guess what, it showed that I had a nice large left-central T-7/8 disc herniation. Once I was dx'd with this, and because I had pain in the chest and abdomen, not to mention the back, doctors of all stripes thought I was a hopeless case. Why? Because the thoracic discs are held in place by the rib cage, and for there to be a painful problem in the area suggests that there may be the danger of paralysis because the spinal column mid-back is much narrower than other spots. Doctors would actually pity me and just tell me to "bear the pain" and "not have the very tricky back surgery". So if you go to get an MRI and there is normal thoracic disc degeneration (up to 37% of the population has non-symptomatic thoracic disc herniations, btw.), you will find yourself being told that you are a hopeless case and you will soon be pissing on the floor if you cough too hard.
DON'T BELIEVE A FRIKKIN WORD OF IT.
Unless you have had a serious trauma, like falling out off a three story building and landing on your back on a fence rail, I would think seriously about NOT having an MRI. That is just my opinion, but based on the fact that you have had pain a long time, it is fairly safe to rule out other nasty things like cancer, etc.
If you want to know the "why" of how you feel, I suggest you get a hold of "Somatics", by Thomas Hanna. For me, this made the most sense. I'll summarize. When you are chronically anxious you will unconsciously react; the reaction, in my case, was what Hanna called the "red-light reflex". He about nails how I felt and what I had been through. I was also having what is called a "green-light reflex", too.
In Hanna's book he describes a series of yoga-like movements -- not exercises-- that are designed to put you back in touch with muscles that have been a solid block of pain for years. Honestly, I found the fundamental movements helpful, but when it started to look like the stick figure was a pretzel as the movements got more complicated, I went with Hanna's observation that it is your mind acting unconsciously (Sound familiar) to bend you over in the back and pull your ab muscles down in the front. Just knowing this was more affirmation for me to lose the fear and dive back into life.
I will add that once you get twisted up with this, it seems to take a bit longer to unwind from than "ordinary" back pain, but maybe it was just me, as I had a few mitigating circumstances.
I have a little stiffness now when I get especially stressed, so the whole deal is "curable", providing you make some life changes you might have to make, or at least think different about them.
BTW, I'll bet the neurologist will have either inconclusive findings, or do a "pin" drag test across a derma-line on you chest and see your skin jump, and conclude, as my first neuro did, that I had a disc herniation. Remember, when your muscles are contracted, as Sarno says, it effects nerves and even tendons. You are probably feeling worse now, because your focus is on the problem.
If you have any questions email me. I feel -- felt-- your pain. It's kind of lonely out there with this, but you're not really alone: you just manifest your TMS/anxiety different than most.
That makes us special.
"Bridges Freeze Before Roads" |
Edited by - Back2-It on 06/08/2012 16:28:27 |
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Wavy Soul
USA
779 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2012 : 03:19:32
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I have had thoracic back pain since late teens, and had it dxed long ago (Scheurmann's Disease) and the absolute best thing has been to work through it gradually with weights and call it TMS.
And I'm not talking about common or garden pain, but chronic jump off the bridge kind, and radiating through to stomach at times. But I have barely had this in years. Taking my attention off it and exercising have been the best. Also, I haven't mentioned it for ages and I'm cancelling this mention, except as it may help you let go of yours.
Love is the answer, whatever the question |
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abundance72
Australia
37 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2012 : 07:55:46
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Sorry for the late reply! It's been hard to get to a computer and just sit down and reply! Thanks Tennis Tom, I have actually just ordered Steve O's book through Amazon so i'm waiting for that. Can't wait.
Dustin (drh7900) I went to the Neurosurgeon today and seriously didn't get an ounce of satisfaction! She looked over old xrays, asked me a couple of questions whether I had pain in certain areas that I didn't, asked me if I could live with this pain, which I said 'I have been living with this pain for so long! Except recently it is now producing the chest pain as well and the back seems to be much worse. She just said that my symptoms were unusual, it's unlikely to be a muscle problem?? and she ordered me an MRI? I honestly didn't get anything out of that.
I truly hope it's TMS but I find that I have journaled quite a bit and I do get angry and express my emotions at home when I'm feeling stressed, I'm just not sure what else to do? Maybe it's the fact that in the back of my mind, I still think my pain is due to a medical problem... I can't seem to get my head around it being just my emotions causing all of this havoc on my body. I try so hard to stop myself but I find that when i'm experiencing the worst pain I constatly google my symptoms, and i'm sure this is just NOT helping me... 
Back2-It you're right! I haven't found much information about upper back pain, now you mentioned unless I had some major trauma you wouldn't recommend an MRI. Well I know this was a long time ago as I'm now 40 but when I was roughly about 15, I had my very large heavy cousin jump on my neck whilst I was sitting on a couch with my head between my legs, we were playing in the dark and she went to jump on the couch and landed on my neck. I felt the biggest crack and yank that my neck bent so far forward it stretched way further than it normally could. When I got up I remember feeling lightheaded and then fainting. Now after this event, I don't remember suffering any serious back pain. It was only after a few years had passed that I started to get the aches and stabs in my shoulder blades.
This was the beginning of a long 20 years of chiropractic care that never ever helped me! I never got myself an MRI in the past, only xrays of full back and a CT scan of my neck. Everything was fine apart from a very straight neck and mild scoliosis. Now when you mention major trauma, my chronic pain I'm experiencing today couldn't possibly be from way back then could it??
Thanks Wavy Soul, i'm really trying so hard to get this off my mind, but when the chest pain steps in as well as the back pain it's literally unbearable! I don't even know what pain meds to take to get rid of this pain it's so horrible! It's no wonder it's hard to stay positive and focused! Thanks everyone for your kind words and advice, i'm sorry for the long and late reply!
Anna
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Every Cell in my body vibrates with energy and health
Loving myself heals my life. I nourish my mind, body and soul
My body heals quickly and easily
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drh7900
USA
194 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2012 : 09:33:35
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Keep in mind that this neurosergeon is not likely to accept the TMS theory. The statement that it's "unlikely to be a muscle problem" is nonsense. I have had chest pain that a cardiologist ruled as being related to my back injury (years ago). As I have recently learned how TMS can manifest, I'm certain it was a TMS flare up in a new location for me. Be thankful she ordered the MRI...unless the MRI shows something serious (ie, cancer or the like) then it IS likely a muscle problem...caused by emotional turmoil.
From the sounds of it, you're of the perfectionist and/or worrier personality type. Constantly researching symptoms can have adverse effects on your progress. Get your diagnosis so you can get out of your situation. Get rid of your doubt to get rid of your symptoms.
"Any shadow of doubt in the TMS process and the pain will linger or return. All the will in the world cannot overcome one shadow of doubt." - from "The Great Pain Deception" by SteveO
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Dustin |
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Back2-It
USA
438 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2012 : 10:21:12
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It is highly unlikely that your cousin's long ago jump is related to anything but a bad memory. Sarno mentions that long ago injuries are not connected to current problems. If you have suffered serious trauama to your back, you're going to know it NOW, not some couple of years or some twenty-five years hence. I had a chiropractor that tried to tell me that falling down the steps at age 4 may be the culprit.
If you are showing mild scoliosis now it is probably from your contracted muscles pulling hard in one direction. When those muscles relax your scoliosis will probably be gone.
If you get the MRI just be prepared. If you have some usual disc degeneration do not panic. It is normal, and extremely unlikely to be causing ANYTHING. My further advice would be not to look at the image results if you are easily influenced. The sight of that little piece of goop slipped this way or that or poking near your spinal column will stay with you a long, long time. If you are walking, bending, turning and the rest, even with pain, your spine is normal.
Just my little two cents worth.
Do not be eager to go to Thoracic Spine Hell, especially when you do not have to.
I will tell you as an aside that nothing worked to stem the pain of my back muscles or chest or abdomen, except Ativan. Ativan has no analgesic properties, so what did that tell me??
If you have a sympathetic doctor, have him give you a short supply of it. See if it makes a difference. Some people are anti-meds, but I found this test to be very helpful. Again, just my opinion. This chest-thoracic pain is unbearable because there is no break in the action, because it involves so many support muscles front and back.
Practice meditation. It helps too. If you can't do that, really lose yourself in a meaningful project.
"Bridges Freeze Before Roads" |
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abundance72
Australia
37 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2012 : 16:23:16
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Thanks guys for your input. I also forgot to mention that in February this year I have been diagnosed with having a hiatus hernia. Is this also TMS??
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Every Cell in my body vibrates with energy and health
Loving myself heals my life. I nourish my mind, body and soul
My body heals quickly and easily
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abundance72
Australia
37 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2012 : 16:59:40
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Backto-it so how did you get rid of your chest/thoracic pain? Was it just Atvian? What exactly is that, I'm not sure if we have that in Australia. I'm just wondering what other names that would go under? Did you do just meditation/ relaxation or did you also get massage? I try to do a meditation everyday I must admit I feel better after it but the pains are still there just a bit less. I suppose doing that with acceptance will help me overcome TMS quicker. Boy it's a hard thing to overcome but well worth it of course. It's so hard to re-wire the brain when you're so used to being a certain way.
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Every Cell in my body vibrates with energy and health
Loving myself heals my life. I nourish my mind, body and soul
My body heals quickly and easily
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bryan3000
USA
513 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2012 : 23:42:00
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Agree with back2it but use Ativan cautiously. Maybe a few times as a test, IMO.
It's not meant for regular use.
What he's saying is, if a relaxant makes you feel better... you have your answer on whether it's physical or not. |
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Back2-It
USA
438 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2012 : 06:39:58
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quote:
Originally posted by abundance72
Backto-it so how did you get rid of your chest/thoracic pain? Was it just Atvian? What exactly is that, I'm not sure if we have that in Australia. I'm just wondering what other names that would go under? Did you do just meditation/ relaxation or did you also get massage? I try to do a meditation everyday I must admit I feel better after it but the pains are still there just a bit less. I suppose doing that with acceptance will help me overcome TMS quicker. Boy it's a hard thing to overcome but well worth it of course. It's so hard to re-wire the brain when you're so used to being a certain way.
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Every Cell in my body vibrates with energy and health
Loving myself heals my life. I nourish my mind, body and soul
My body heals quickly and easily
Ativan convinced me that it was mental and not physical, because Ativan has a calming effect on the central nervous system. It did not get rid of my back pain, but told me the cause. Not sure what it goes by down under, but you can search that if you want. It's a benzo. Benzos are known for their addictive qualities, but I am not sure they are any more addictive than the anti-depressants that doctors prescribe like candy. I know of people that have taken a low dose of Ativan or Xanax for years and have not had the need to increase dosage. Maybe for them it is having a placebo effect after all the years. Anyway, the pill is not the cure, but you will notice that Dr. Sarno does say to those in pain, do not suffer. Take a pill. Dr. Weekes says the same thing. When I would hesitate to take some of the remaining supply I had left, because I would say that there is no analgesic value it in, a very bright friend said that, for me, that was my pain pill.
The only thing I can say is that it does take a long time to unwind from this for some people, because every move you make, standing, sitting or walking, puts a strain on already contracted muscles. Some dx this as costrocondritis, which there is no known cause and only one cure: calming the CNS, and others never find the cause, but when they relax enough the pain recedes.
It was meditation that helped; also taking care of some big issues in my life; and thinking different about issues that could not be changed or were not to my liking.
I also had to examine the type of person I was -- a goodist, people pleaser-- and modify that, which was changing a lifetime of behavior. I had to force myself out, no matter the pain, to be more sociable again. It was a process that took time.
But because of a neurologist doing a pin drag across a dermaline and then getting an MRI that showed a disc herniation, I spent 1.5 years thinking I had the worst back problem in the world. Yet so little made sense: I could touch my toes, twist this way and that (painfully) and had no motor problems, so how could I have a back problem? I was assured by doctor after doctor who saw the image and read the transcripts, that I, indeed, had a horrible, unique and permanent disability. Hear that for a time and see if you don't want to run your car into a tree: imagine, having to live with that horrible pain forever.
Give it time. Heck, you've had the problem for 25 years, it takes time to reprogram, as you say. Don't rush into being one of the few, the unique, the pitied in the Thoracic Back Category. It is a category that most all medical practitioners avoid like the plague.
"Bridges Freeze Before Roads" |
Edited by - Back2-It on 06/13/2012 06:44:43 |
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balto
839 Posts |
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drh7900
USA
194 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2012 : 13:41:25
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According to Appendix A in SteveO's book, hiatus hernia symptoms (gastric backflow into the esophagus which causes heartburn) will leave with TMS healing.
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Dustin |
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Chronic Thoracic Pain and Chest Ache
