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Baseball65
USA
734 Posts |
 Posted - 02/14/2005 : 08:43:03
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Hi
I was reading tennis Tom's string about Western Meditation and it inspired me to do a web search on Chopra.I Heard Deepak talk on a motivational CD once,and really thought he was spot on.....he said: we are not physical beings having a spiritual experience,but spiritual beings having a physical experience.
After I did the search,I was bummed to find that a number of the web pages on him were dedicated to discrediting him,accusing him of making false claims,plagiarism,,,,hell...they even accuse him of sleeping with a prostitute.
Funny....I was reading Louise Hays book and getting fantastic results from it,and than I got to a page where she discusses aromatherapy,chiropractic and a couple of other "practices" that I don't believe in......and than of course comes doubt...the demon that attacked all of us as we recovered from TMS.
Since reading her books,I haven't been sick once...this might not seem signifigant unless you also knew that I have been a smoker my whole life,eat horribly,barely excercise and have suffered from devastating pneumonia and chronic bronchitis,AND just moved from Sunny warm,dry California to Rainy/snowy below freezing Tennessee AND work around harsh chemicals,dust,vapors.ALSO,I have 2 children,and we all know what little germ collectors they are.
Mind you,I've FELT as if I were going to be sick a bunch of times....just never crossed that magic threshold of feeling like crap,or "Western Meditation" as Tom/Deepak call it.I've cracked her book,looked up the "cause" and corrective Idea,and used it almost like a walking mantra until the symptom evaporates.
I've been sweating bullets at work and than gone outside into freezing weather 10-12 times a day....My boss says: "Sweating in the cold is what causes Bronchitis." and I say to myself "Bulls#it...family fights,indecisiveness and stifled anger cause bronchitis"....he was coughing all around me for a week...I remained healthy(He doesn't smoke,I do{which he constantly reminds me about})
The point I was working towards is that I have had a history of throwing out the Baby with the bathwater......I'll be really excited about something,some new book,program,and than they will say or do ONE thing I don't agree with and C-ya....I'm out the door.
Everything I've learned or read in her book has made sense and WORKED...but my EGO says,"well...if she is wrong about this,than she is wrong about everything"
...but what about my lack of colds,infections,bronchitis that I USED to always get???
What about Chopra's being so right about so many things??
If Deepak is guilty of common human shortcomings,how can he be profound?
If Tony Robbins is divorced,how can I take any of his advice seriously?
If my pastor is deluded about something that happened 2000 years ago,how can he give me insights into how to be a better person today?
God forbid if Sarno was ever found out to be a wrong about something!!
...see what I'm talking about??
I think what it is ,is that I'm really looking for a divine like perfection in the instructors/teachers that I choose....and it ain't going to happen.
....or,perhaps there IS truth in all of it with the occassional human error,oversight or shortsight.
I think that this healing power IS divine,and certain people(Sarno,Hay,Siegel,Chopra,Lao-Tse etc,etc) are the mouthpiece of the truth that they have discovered....occasionally in the trip from their soul to the paper,it accidentally gets contaminated with human frailty...but what is true still shines through in spite of the minor corruption.
Each and every one of us will find his/her own list of teachers whose truths will shine through.....I just need to stop chucking them out the window because of eenths of disagreement.That would be a huge growth for me,the doubter,the OCDer,the one who checks and rechecks and cross references and internet searches.
The truth always stand out if you're looking for it.
Happy Valentines day
peace
Baseball65 |
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Albert
USA
210 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2005 : 09:58:30
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I used to believe that there are people who have all the answers, but now anymore. Heck, I can't even trust myself to be right all of the time. Goodness knows that I've been wrong a number of times.
Consider this. It is possible for a person to completely agree with you when it comes to TMS theory, yet have completely different political views. That doesn't mean that they're confused about TMS. It just means that it is hard for people to be right about everything.
Despite what I wrote, I don't think I would take the time to read Chopra. The problem with him is that he's quite eclectic with his approach and speaks about Guru oriented spiritual philosophies that I once strongly believed in but no longer do. I don't feel like I'm being egotistical when I say that I believe that I looked into Eastern philosophies more thoroughly that he has. Yet some people view him as some sort of master. I saw him on a television show the other day and he was talking about political issues. Medicine, spirituality, politicals: does he really know about everything? I guess the more things he tries to be an expert on the more books he can sell.
I don't believe that on a theoretical level TMS theory needs to be merged with spirituality. In fact, I believe it is possible that people make a mistake when they try to do so. They bring in elements that just complicate their understanding. For example, what if they believed in something such as Heavans Gate philosophy? How do you come up with a UNIFIED THEORY that merges the idea of going to space after you die with TMS theory?
It seems that some of the people out there who believe in mindbody theory also believe in things such as chiropractry and acupuncture. They seem to like just about anything that seems different than convential western medicine and seems to be holistic. Sort of this the more you do, the more likely you are to have all of your bases covered. I prefer Dr. Sarno's approach of not mixing apples with oranges.
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2005 : 10:59:44
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Baseball65,
It sounds from your post like you are spreading yourself thin from a belief system perspective. Perhaps you are having trouble integrating all the different enlightened people you are looking to for guidance. TMS people have issues with perfectonism and goodism. When they are overwhelmed by the demands of these traits, their psyches can't take it anymore and the internal rage errupts in the form of psychogenic pain.
I have a stack of books that I have accumulated on reccommendations from this board. I have hardly cracked any of them--maybe someday. I have found at this time that trying to understand Sarno and working at applying his theory to my daily life is all I need at this time. Sarno for my mind and tennis for my body is all I need for now. I think trying to embrace too many disciplines prevents us from focusing deeply on any one. We become dilitantes. If you can master one discipline then you can transfer that learning energy to other subsequent endeavors. How you do one thing is how you do everything.
Our culture is like a candy store today. There are so many different systems and proponents of them that it becomes a big noise to me. What I like about Sarno is that he is not out there self-promoting like a Robbins. He doesn't seem to be in it for the big bucks. He just writes a new book about every ten years revising and updating his theory--no web-site, no coffee mugs, no info-mercials. This has increased my faith in his theory and sticking to it. I am sure Sarno still gets aches and pains. This to me does not mean that his theory is not valid. It just means that he is human just like the rest of us. Hays, Robbins, Chopra, they are all human and have their good and bad sides. That I think is one of Sarno's big points, not to FEAR our dark side. To acknowledge it and let go of it. |
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Albert
USA
210 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2005 : 11:19:19
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I used to believe in the concept of enlightened beings. Supposedly such people are never wrong.
I now realize that everybody is psychologically conditioned in some manner, therefore, their conditioning can lead them astray (just look at what TMS does). This is true for so called enlightened beings. In fact, people who believe that they have found ultimate wisdom can be the least trustworthy because they have lost the ability to question themselves. They get this idea that they are guided by ultimate wisdom, and therefore can never go astray. What I've found after looking into it exhaustively is that they are guided by their idea of ultimate wisdom, not ultimate wisdom itself.
It is possible for a person to become so conditioned by a belief that he or she becomes "immune" from considering an idea that is contrary to his or her belief. Really intelligent people become extra immune, because their high level of intelligence works against them and causes them to condition themselves in a manner that is hard to overcome. And if guy has fooled himself into believing that he is somehow guided by ultimate wisdom, well then, forget it. How are you going to get such a person to question his ideas? |
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Albert
USA
210 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2005 : 11:29:52
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Some more thoughts.
Forget about the authority figures. It is better to make it so you can trust your own judgment.
That's why I liked talking to you about TMS. You weren't just some guy with a bunch of unproven theories. You talked about what you learned through your "own" experience. |
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moose1
162 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2005 : 12:36:36
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Hello Baseball,
I was looking at Louise Hays's books on Amazon and there are quite a few. Do you recommend any one them in particular?
Thanks,
Moose |
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Baseball65
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2005 : 15:00:32
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Hi Moose...the Book I've been reading is called "You caN HEAL YOUR LIFE"...and as I've said,I've gotten really good results from it,though it's frilliness prevented me from cracking the cover for a lonnnnnng time.
To Tom: I would not debate the point that I might be spread thin in my beliefs....I really use a sort of strainer bowl.The Litmus test I use is generally skepticism(what does this person want from me?),Pragmatism(Can this work in the real world) and the ultimate..Function...(does it work for other people OR me).
Sarno got me out of pain.He didn't want anything from me(though I feel like being an advocate is the least I can do in return),It is easy to work in the real work,and I got results.
However,he didn't tell me much as far as what to do now that I don't have THAT problem anymore...what am I to do with my self now that I am restored???
Lao-Tse and Taoism are brilliant,and pass ring number one and two,but got stuck on three.....try and try as I may,I always chase the straw dog,and become tricked by the ten thousand things.....good observation,tough to practice
Anthony Robbins DOES want something from me,so I am skeptical right away,however I have used some of his principles to great effect,particularly in getting along with others....I have no great ambitions of wealth,so he can only help me so far.Mind you...I've never given the man a cent...I've only listened to the info I could glean for free..very helpful in a lot of personal areas,particularly tough relationships and self-made barriers.I used his goal setting systems to kick a drug addiction that AA couln't,move across country mid-life and a lot of other stuff...
I guess I'm greedy...there was a time in my life when all I wanted to do was get out of pain...and I did...but now I want to break down some of the other barriers that have kept me from a number of other success'...like my bad attitude about work,impatience with others who don't "get it",etc,etc.
In fact it was ONLY because Sarno was so effective that I opened my mind to investigating any of this stuff.
I know that in our pop culture we have a sort of "buffet" style of eclectic new age-ism,and that too bugs me....I usually only investigate one system or idea at a time.....however when I blurt them out all at once,I'm sure it might sound like I'm spread thin.
Right now I have only been reading Hay,and doing a program through church.
But all the truths I learned in all the other stuff are still solid in my head!
peace
Baseball65 |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2005 : 15:06:21
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| Good posts Albert. Well put. TMS directs us to look for the answers within. |
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moose1
162 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2005 : 12:41:43
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I used to be one of these all-or-nothing readers, too, but since reading about the whole mindbody epidemic in western society I've learned to take what rings true to me and leave the rest that might sound iffy, scammy or just ludicrous.
Chiro is a perfect example. Most chiros would agree with the overall contention that emotions directly influence physical health, and most could easily see stress as the cause of, say, muscle pain or a cold. I couldn't agree more. Of course, where every chiro on earth and myself part ways is obvious. One's chronic back pain is not going to go away as a result of getting adjusted three times a week and doing ab crunches. So while one chiro may teach me something about emotions, stress and illness (that is if I ever went to one again, which I wouldn't), I now also know enough to see that the symetrical length of my legs is no more critical to my health than the length of my hair.
Once you've been through the back pain factory like a lot of us have...chiros, PTs, orthos, hypnotists, surgeons, therapists, herbalists, etc...and then found a little truth and insight, it becomes easier to take what you need from an information source and move on.
Moose1 |
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It's ALL good !
