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sarah430
37 Posts |
 Posted - 03/16/2012 : 10:36:05
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I am new here, but not new to TMS and Dr. Sarno's ideas. I've likely suffered from TMS all my life, but didn't learn about it until Fall 2010 when I developed sciatic-like nerve pain in my left leg/foot. I'm generally an anxious person and as a child/young adult my TMS would manifest itself as GI problems - mainly upset stomach/indigestion which seems pretty mild in the grand scheme of things now. Lately it's the nerve pain and also skin rashes (which I had a bit as a child too.)
I think the nerve pain manifestation came about after an actual physical injury I sustained in 2008 when I slipped on some ice and really hit my hip hard. I look back now and realize that I was pretty much healed when it suddenly became worse. I'm sure now that was TMS. I was in pain for about a year. I hadn't read Dr. Sarno at the time, but I think I cured myself using a version of of his ideas that I came to on my own. I developed an "I'm not broken, I can beat this pain" mindset and over a period of 6 months or so I became pain-free. This included getting back to the activity I love - long distance running, which I couldn't do for most of 2008 and half of 2009.
But my pain came back in November 2010, manifesting itself in a slightly different way. Of course I thought I was injured again. It wasn't until March or April 2011 that I discovered Dr. Sarno and was convinced I had TMS. I was painfree by the end of June, but I recall now I had a bout of skin rashes right after this. But the pain came back after only 3 months and I've felt it on and off since then. Unfortunately, I'm not too bright and it wasn't until just recently that I started to think it was TMS again. I wonder if a lot of people go through this -- Get cured of TMS via Sarno's work, but when something new crops up go straight back to thinking it's physical.
Anyway, I've had massages and acupuncture throughout the last year and I do think they help me too. I was pondering why this is so and I think it's more because they are relaxing and I really like my massage therapist and acupuncturist. It's a positive and calming experience to be with them.
So I guess my question is, do you think continuing to get acupuncture and/or massage is detrimental? It makes me feel good. And I think being kind to myself and immersing myself in a positive atmosphere is helpful. I have an appt with my GP next week to request another acupuncture referral. I'm not going to accept anything else he offers - MRI's, meds, etc. (FYI - I've tried all those in the past.)
If I do get another acupuncture referral my plan is to tell myself this isn't to cure me of any physical problem, but to help my psyche.
What do you think? |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2012 : 11:29:11
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quote:
Originally posted by sarah430
So I guess my question is, do you think continuing to get acupuncture and/or massage is detrimental? It makes me feel good. And I think being kind to myself and immersing myself in a positive atmosphere is helpful. I have an appt with my GP next week to request another acupuncture referral. I'm not going to accept anything else he offers - MRI's, meds, etc. (FYI - I've tried all those in the past.)
If I do get another acupuncture referral my plan is to tell myself this isn't to cure me of any physical problem, but to help my psyche.
What do you think?
It sounds like you've got it figured out. Dr. Sarno says to stop all treatments and think psychological. As someone who has had hundreds of acupuncture treatments and too many other forms of bodywork to list here, it's good for a brief time out from the real world that creates TMS tension induced psychosomatic pain. The soothing lasts about as long as it takes to leave the parking lot until the first person honks and flips you the bird as you merge back into the fast-lane of life.
If you do a little googling you'll find the real studies on acupuncture that discredit it as pure placebo. When they needled people with fake needles and real ones there was no benefit only placebo. I'm my own study, after hundreds of sessions no improvement except about 50 minutes of peace and quiet--you ain't goin' anywhere with all those needles stuck in you. Find something cheaper to do to control your rage/soothe ratio that isn't fattening like swimming or a hot-tub with good jets.
Any physician who would prescribe acu or chiro, I would have my doubts about. They are either trying to humor the patient, given up on a real cure like TMS, or are on the woo-woo side. |
Edited by - tennis tom on 03/16/2012 11:33:28 |
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sarah430
37 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2012 : 12:06:42
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Thanks for your comments!
If I can get a referral, acupuncture is pretty cheap - just a co-pay. Fortunately for me, I can get the acupuncture good feelings to last longer than the parking lot. But I hear you. And I guess that's what I was trying to convey. It's pure placebo, and really just a vehicle to make myself slow down and relax for an hour. I can probably find a way to do that on my own. (I do swim and hang out in the sauna - very relaxing.)
I guess the key is to figure out if I can really get the acupuncture without going back to the thinking that it will cure me physically.
I will add also, that I have no intention of talking with my regular doctor about TMS, except perhaps to mention anxiety. I know the only way to get a referral through the system is to go along with the diagnosis that I have chronic nerve pain due to a structural problem with my low back. I'm not sure what you mean about having doubts about a doctor who would prescribe acupuncture or chiropractic for pain. I would think that 99% of doctors would, right? I'm not seeing this doc for TMS. He's just a regular family practitioner.
P.s. So glad I found this forum. Just reading has helped the pain from escalating and bringing it back down to the annoyance level. I am reading the kindle sample of The Great Pain Deception and will likely purchase it. While I was helped by Dr. Sarno's books I think something a little more up-to-date will be more helpful for me. I also have Dr. Howard Schubiner's Unlearn Your Pain book which I'd like to work with. I purchased it last year but never did the exercises after I began to feel a lot better. Now I know this can be an ongoing process. |
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sarah430
37 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2012 : 13:16:47
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| I decided to cancel my appointment seeking an acupuncture referral. I'd like to commit to stopping all physical/medical treatments. I don't think I could get acupuncture without a bit of hope that it was treating me physically rather than mentally. Thank you to this forum for giving me the opportunity to think this through better. |
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lara
USA
101 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2012 : 14:05:31
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I am not going ever going to quit my acupunturist ever! he not only
makes me feel better (pain level)but talks to me in a way that gives me a lot of peace,he listens to me ,ask about my past,childhood etc,we always start the session with a brief talking about how am i feeling
that week,what happened since the last time he saw me,etc,he gives me great advices,wonderful support,i don't know but i see acupunture as a Mind/Body/Spirit approach. |
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Stryder
686 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2012 : 14:57:02
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lara said: ...talks to me in a way that gives me a lot of peace,he listens to me ,ask about my past,childhood etc,we always start the session with a brief talking about how am i feeling...
Sounds just like my psychologist. Do you think you are getting any benefit from the acupuncture procedure itself ?
TT said: ...about 50 minutes of peace and quiet--you ain't goin' anywhere with all those needles stuck in you.
We could all use a good dose of peace and quiet. Start by reserving some quite time to yourself daily and no longer watch the TV news.
Take care,
-Stryder |
Edited by - Stryder on 03/19/2012 15:04:57 |
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lara
USA
101 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2012 : 16:43:22
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Exactly! and i truly beleive in QI or energy channels,arent we under the biggest source of energy every day? the sun? our brains? etc? i think acupunture under the right practioner shouldn't be eliminited from mind approach.
But that is only my opinion.
Lara. |
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sarah430
37 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2012 : 17:20:01
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quote:
Originally posted by lara
I am not going ever going to quit my acupunturist ever! he not only
makes me feel better (pain level)but talks to me in a way that gives me a lot of peace,he listens to me ,ask about my past,childhood etc,we always start the session with a brief talking about how am i feeling
that week,what happened since the last time he saw me,etc,he gives me great advices,wonderful support,i don't know but i see acupunture as a Mind/Body/Spirit approach.
I agree, I see it as a mind/body spirit approach too, which is why I wanted to get another referral. In the future I might go back to acupuncture, but it's better right now for me to let it go. |
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2012 : 18:15:01
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| I strongly disagree, ANY physical treatment should be discontinued. Now someone new to TMS will not understand this. You will impede your progress if you continue. Believe it or not massage doesn't feel good to me anymore. Only TMS aching muscles feel better after massage. You probably can wean yourself off acupuncture like anything but you will get the hang of controlling and beating TMS faster if you stop cold turkey. Good luck to you. People who have recovered fully on this board or elsewhere have not used the acupuncture approach, therefore it cannot be an important part of healing and should be eliminated from the mind body approach. |
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balto
839 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2012 : 18:30:33
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I came from asia and I have seen accupunture in action over there. It is not a cure all like many A. doctors have claimed, but it does helped with many illnesses and pain symptoms if you got the right practioner, the one that went through the right training.
It will not cure but to some degrees it does help reduced the symptoms of anxiety, insomnia, and some minor pain. Some researcher found that the treatment some how trigger the body to release Dopamine, the feel good chemical.
With thousand years of history, it must be of some good to last that long. |
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2012 : 20:18:25
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| Balto just bc something has been around for a long time doesn't mean it's good (ie cigarettes). I liken it to a pain killer or a antipsychotic (which btw stimulates dopamine receptors). It does mean it doesn't do anything for the moment but if you keep using it it does allow you to become dependent on that for pain relief where I believe the person needs to get good and being able to get rid of it thru theier own facilities |
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lara
USA
101 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2012 : 20:52:27
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Ace1 ,
Have you ever had acupunture? my acupunturist tells me that my QI SOUL sometimes is half empty and asks me what has happened during that week,i think that he is great ,because usually he is right,i have had a family issue when he finds my QI of hope or soul empty. Or half empty.last week i had a very strong argument with my husband and he told me ,i dont know what happened to you but the heart energy is blocked,explain that to me. By the way he uses needles without medicine,how do you explain that? |
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balto
839 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2012 : 05:20:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Ace1
Balto just bc something has been around for a long time doesn't mean it's good (ie cigarettes). I liken it to a pain killer or a antipsychotic (which btw stimulates dopamine receptors). It does mean it doesn't do anything for the moment but if you keep using it it does allow you to become dependent on that for pain relief where I believe the person needs to get good and being able to get rid of it thru theier own facilities
I think it has more to do with Power of suggestion than any thing. My old village acupuncture doc once told me that his treatment would work much much better if the patient believe in him and his treatment and trust him. His calm and friendly and understanding voice probably has more effect than those needles.
I don't know how acupuncture work. I just saw it cured lots of diseases and illness where I came from. It maybe placebo, power of trust, lack of other medical services,...
I do agreed that with tms you should discontinue all physical treatment. They just slow down your progress in the fight against tms. |
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Darko
Australia
387 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2012 : 06:33:06
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If you use acupuncture to treat TMS symptoms then you're going to have problems, as this could keep you stuck. However if you use it to get your energy and emotions flowing as a way to connect to your emotional being then I believe this to be very healthy.
One needs to be careful not to become a "TMS fundamentalist".......take a relaxed approach to all things including TMS, if it works for you great, if not then cease doing it. Simple and easy.....we don't need to refer to Sarno for every little thing we do in life and trying to address TMS in a PERFECT manner....this itself will cause you tension.
Your focus must always be on the emotional side, and your thoughts. If you have a healthy approach to this then you'll fine....if you find you need regular treatment to function then you may have an issue.
D
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2012 : 08:21:44
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| lara maybe he can sense you are sad and thats why he said your "heart energy is blocked" I have never done acupuncture. But ask yourself this question if you had no pain no sxs at all, would you still go to this accupuncturist? Would you spend your time and money with this guy or would you be enjoying life? Its not about being a TMS fundamentalist- actually discontinuing all physical treatments was a prerequisite before being called cured by Dr. Sarno. Why? well its based on the question posed above. what happens I have come to realize is that when you use a crutch, you may eventually become better with that crutch, but you will never really be normal and you will always need it to feel good. Balto, hillbilly and the folks that have recovered completely really have the good advice on how to achieve this. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2012 : 09:45:22
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quote:
Originally posted by balto
...I think it has more to do with Power of suggestion than any thing.
...It maybe placebo, power of trust,
...I do agreed that with tms you should discontinue all physical treatment. They just slow down your progress in the fight against tms.
The above is correct. I have had over a hundred acu sessions and they were only good for a short respite of relaxation. You're in a nice quiet room, with relaxation music piped in from speakers in the ceiling, heat lamp above, heated sheep's skin pad below, a bunch of needles in you so your not going anywhere. Out of a one hour session the acu spends maybe 10 minutes talking to you while he sticks the needles in--and then they're off to where?--another cubicle to needle another customer?--or maybe read a newspaper while you lie there? At least with a rolfer or cranial-sacral you have them for the duration. Of course acu's are nice to you and intuitive, sort of like gypsy card readers-if they weren't would you come back? It's not like they are MD's, demi-gods, up until recently in our culture.
This is the TMS board so we try to keep the info accurate to what the
Good Doctor says, he says curtail all physical treatments. This can be difficult when you establish a relationship with the "practitioner" and view them as a friend, confidant, pseudo-psychotherapist--but in the end, how many sessions would they give you for free if you weren't opening your wallet to them?
Dr. Sarno says TMS is a defense mechanism, a protective device, a distraction from an even greater emotional pain that your subconscious decides you can't handle right now. Ask yourself, what is your TMS symptom protecting you from? This is a good thing for most of us, empathy over pain keeps the social fabric together, a great distraction from discussing taboo subjects like politics, sex and religion. TMS is a small part of TMS doctor's practices. Most patients don't want any part of it, just a quick-fix. When you become strong enough to handle things without the aid of outside substances, gizmos, or paid for "healers" you will gain a great independence.
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lara
USA
101 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2012 : 10:11:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Darko
If you use acupuncture to treat TMS symptoms then you're going to have problems, as this could keep you stuck. However if you use it to get your energy and emotions flowing as a way to connect to your emotional being then I believe this to be very healthy.
One needs to be careful not to become a "TMS fundamentalist".......take a relaxed approach to all things including TMS, if it works for you great, if not then cease doing it. Simple and easy.....we don't need to refer to Sarno for every little thing we do in life and trying to address TMS in a PERFECT manner....this itself will cause you tension.
Your focus must always be on the emotional side, and your thoughts. If you have a healthy approach to this then you'll fine....if you find you need regular treatment to function then you may have an issue.
D
I think you got it Darko,when you say "However if you use it to get your energy and emotions flowing as a way to connect to your emotional being then I believe this to be very healthy."
In fact when i go to see him my pain level is the same afterwards,but the peace of mind and my emotions are like more connected to my soul.
I keep focus on my emotions and thoughts,i know i have TMS,i see acupunture as a meditation tool,with some more spiritual approach than body work.
Lara |
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Is there a place for acupuncture, massage, etc?
