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glowgirl
USA
42 Posts |
 Posted - 01/01/2012 : 15:38:47
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hi there,
i am confused.
the wise-anderson protocol, which i am considering doing, seems to blend together something like dr. sarno's approach with trigger point release.
i see people recommend his site but isn't this contradictory? ie doesn't dr. sarno advise against all physical therapy?
i am recovering from an anal fissure, have the chronic rectal spasms, and some other issues, like low back pains, hip tender points (are they trigger points? i dont' know). also migraines.
there's not doubt reading this forum my main issue is FEAR and letting it run my life, however).
so now i am wondering whether to go.
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2012 : 16:09:31
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Hi Glowgirl,
Yes, in his books Dr Sarno does advise against all physical therapy when the diagnosis of TMS has been made, and trigger point release is not part of Dr. Sarno's treatment program. Trigger point release -- which I myself tried to no avail -- is treating the symptom and not addressing the the cause. It may help alleviate the immediate symptoms, but due to the symptom imperative, which Dr Sarno talks about, the symptoms will merely manifest themselves elsewhere in the body because the underlying cause is not being dealt with.
The anal fissure, however, is a real physical injury which is not a TMS equivalent and has to be treated in other ways, ie ensuring your stool remains soft. Eating a lot of prunes helps with this.
Best wishes! |
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TaylorJoh
USA
113 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2012 : 16:12:54
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Oh, I feel you. I've been through it. I'm not sure what the "wise-anderson protocol" is, but if it does involve trigger point release, I would think it would be contrary to the TMS protocol.
When I was going through it, I really became desperate. I researched trigger point therapy and the results didn't seem to good. From what I've read it's a very painful and humiliating experience. It could make your symptoms worse. Or at best, give you only temporary relief.
Have you tried treating it solely as a TMS symptom? I didn't have the fissure as I would use a suppository every time I needed to go, so there was no straining and it would actually soften the stool.
Not until I started treating the symptom for what it was, a TMS symptom did it go away. It's so hard not to become fixated and terrified by it. But the only way I got better was to address the psychological issues such as fear/anxiety and then try to ignore and move forward the best you can. It took a couple weeks before the spasms subsided, then another couple of weeks before the golf ball in my rectum feeling went away.
Have you read Sarno's books yet? If not, IMHO that is where you should go first. If it is possible, also try to see a TMS therapist in your area. Tennis Tom has a list on all his posts. He's not hard to find here lol.
The only way I treated that problem physically was doing what I could to keep my stools soft. I didn't eat a lot of fiber. That seemed to make the problem worse. My rule of thumb was, if something sits out for a day or two and becomes really thick and stiff, don't eat it. I took stool softners. But what really helped me was drinking carrot juice with each meal. Carrot juice seems to have this natural oil that coats your stool for easy passage. I also ate a lot of things with olive oil. Both was a life saver for me. I'm not sure you should do suppositories as it might irritate the fissure. These are just suggestions, everyone is different. But it wouldn't hurt to try a good quality olive oil and carrot juice. It REALLY worked for me.
Taylor
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lynnl
USA
109 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2012 : 10:15:17
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quote:
Originally posted by TaylorJoh
Oh, I feel you. I've been through it. I'm not sure what the "wise-anderson protocol" is, but if it does involve trigger point release, I would think it would be contrary to the TMS protocol.
Taylor
"... contrary to the TMS protocol." Not neccessarily.
Anderson and Wise are proposing a dual approach, comprising both physical and mental components. And they're obviously achieving success. But I agree with you Taylor, probably it's mainly the mental component that's more productive.
As I mentioned in one of my comments in another thread, I found relief in simply viewing and listening to the videos describing the Wise-Anderson protocol. That confirmed, beyond any doubt, for me that the symptoms I was experiencing were purely psychogenic in origin.
Then, largely out of curiosity, I ordered the two books: "A Headache in the Pelvis", and "Paradoxical Relaxation", to see how their (Anderson and Wise) ideas dovetailed with those of Dr. Sarno. After having read it, I think the Paradoxical Relaxation is simply Dr. Sarno's concepts wrapped up in somewhat different packaging.
I have been a staunch Sarno disciple since about 1997 or 98, and I have read all of his writings so often I've practically memorized them.
But I felt, that for someone experiencing pelvic or urinary or such related symptoms, a title like "Healing Back Pain" would not be as convincing as a topic that specifically cited their condition. That is why I offered the link to pelvicpainhelp, and the references to Anderson-Wise.
I think we can all understand why Dr Sarno would not title his book "Healing Back and Neck and Elbow and Knee and Jaw and Migraine and Foot and etc., etc.... Pain." But the unfortunate truth is, many people will have doubts that it applies to their ailment if it isn't specifically covered. And those doubts will quite likely preclude acceptance.
Lynn |
Edited by - lynnl on 01/02/2012 10:16:11 |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2012 : 13:44:16
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Earlier in his work Dr. Sarno also followed a dual approach, comprising both physical and mental components, but over time he abandoned this approach as he felt it was doing more harm than good. The physical of component the program was re-enforcing the idea that there is a physical problem which can be fixed with physical therapy, which in fact -- as Sarno came to discover -- is not the case with TMS patients.
I have read "A Headache in the Pelvis" by Dr. Wise and have communicated with him via e-mail. He does not accept Dr. Sarno's ideas at all and instead advocates trigger point therapy. He has had success with it but it takes a long time. |
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glowgirl
USA
42 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2012 : 19:30:43
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hi everyone,
thanks for your input, i really appreciate it.
i have ordered two of his books. so they are on the way.
i have been really inspired by reading this forum. there's something about testimonials that are very powerful.
i really got something about FEAR. fear of pain, symptoms, stress, etc.
i feel i have gotten into some pretty scary places here.
question: for those of you who did heal from ano-rectal spasms, how long did it take? mine came from a fissure and also from a bad fall two years ago. so who knows where in the pelvis?
but as of four months ago the spasming became chronic (unlivebably so), really.
i have decided: it's time to have my FEAR stop running me. i think this is a very major commitment. that's okay, when i look at the alternatives.
after i read the board the other night i have done my best to confront my fear head on and i agree some more support and knowledge would be incredibly helpful right now.
when i did this, so far, i have noticed that pain can be very elusive and maleable, moreso that i thought or realized. i am impressed so far. intrigued. but still a bit confused.
would people not have a masssage, for example? or use a heating pad? etc.? or is this different from trigger point stuff? (i must admit the idea of having trigger point stuff done does seem very scary and i am afraid it might make things worse, not better.)
thanks.
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TaylorJoh
USA
113 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2012 : 20:14:55
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Glowgirl,
Mine went away in about 2 weeks. The whole rectal spasms and tight muscles, so severe passing stool on my own becoming practically impossible, all stemmed from a fear/obsession of getting hemorrhoids. I'm half shaking my head and laughing at the same time. I can't believe what irrational fear can do to the human body.
Ah, anyway ... until you get the books I wanted to share this with you. http://tinyurl.com/79cuv7o It's a link to a 20/20 segment on John Sarno. I watched it so many times before I got his books. I think it might also be very encouraging and inspiring to you. And being hopeful and inspired is such an awesome starting point.
Taylor |
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glowgirl
USA
42 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2012 : 20:24:58
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thanks, taylorjoh,
i am starting to really take all this in. it's quite a new way of looking at things. my life, actually.
could you resend the link some other way, it doesn't seem to work?
and yes, my FEAR has had me wrapped up in knots.
i am inspired by your story and that of others.
after i read this forum i noticed things improving for me already.
ps thanks for the suggestions on olive oil and carrot juice.
i love olive oil. carrot juice... hmmm.... will have to give that a try.
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TaylorJoh
USA
113 Posts |
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ajm222
15 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2012 : 06:51:08
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i had a fissure years ago (back around 1997). had 2 surgeries to repair it. never thought it would heal. it finally did once i started taking an anti-depressant, which allowed me to stop focusing on it so much. the trauma surrounding the whole experience had become all consuming. stayed on the meds for about 12 years. shortly after i came off of them i began obsessing again about what had happened and the surgeries and i got it in my head that they had sewed me up too tight down there or mangled everything and i began worrying that i would get another fissure (ignoring the fact i had gone over a decade without any major issues). it's been about 2 years and i am still obsessing about my bathroom habits and the main problem has become tightness down there, which i assume is all because of fear as i have gone back to a colo-rectal specialist three times and they've told me there is no stenosis down there and only the slightest bit of scar tissue from the surgery and that i should never have to worry about fissures again because of the lateral internal sphincterotomy they performed.
i am beginning to start therapy soon to deal with all of this but it is always reassuring to hear so many others state they had tightness down there, people who DIDN'T have surgery or even a fissure. seems it's entirely possible to have lots of trouble getting things out simply if you're too stressed about it. fixing this is easier said than done though. i have been consuming more fiber which generally has helped. i still get strong urges to go, and have pressure down there and sometimes pain and discomfort though.
have you considered surgery? i know lots of people would advise against it, however chronic fissures can be extremely difficult to heal on their own after a while. but carolyn who used to frequent this board, had all these same issues and multiple fissures and managed to heal all of it simply by using the TMS protocol and accepting it all as stress and TMS. if you can heal it that way it would certainly be the best option. surgery carries minimal risk of incontinence and other complications but it's always a possibility.
best of luck! |
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glowgirl
USA
42 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2012 : 10:59:50
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hi there,
taylor joh,
thanks for the link, i watched it, it was fabulous.
this AM i had cramps in the region and i spoke to them rather than take a hot bath.
i told them to go away. i didn't need them any more.
:(i felt like this was on par with shooting craps, pardon the pun)
in about ten minutes the cramps went away.
i could hardly believe it.
now one day does not constitute a cure and what i have is pretty serious... to me anyway... but it sure has me motivated and intrigued and gives me chills down my spine.
what did you do? could you give some more of your story?
you told some of it (i looked at your threads.) some of them, seems like you went through a lot. how did you come to sarno? are you better now?
i don't think i have a fissure anymore, just the psychic imprint.
i am trying to live my life like a normal person would. not do hot baths or be "gingerly"... i know i need the books to come but i also need to get on this immediately! these cramps can be excruciating and when they go then i feel like 100% normal.
i tell myself, i am normal, i don't need the cramps. and that i am looking at my patterns, i am a people pleaser, and maybe this is where the book can tell me what to say. not to try to fix anything but just accept who i am and also stand up for myself without becoming an a**hole (pardon the pun again)!
thanks, everyone. i can hardly believe i have already begun feeling at least some benefits.
i also try to tell my FEAR that i don't want it or need it and that i choose life. |
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Pelvic pain help?
