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stevep
106 Posts |
 Posted - 12/08/2011 : 10:19:07
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Hello,
29 year old male here. Working for a moving company years ago, I started getting lower back pain with sciatic pain down my right leg. After leaving that kind of work it seemed to eventually subside a great deal. This lasted for a good few years. About 9 months ago I woke up one morning with the same lower back and sciatic pain once again. And although I do indeed workout pretty hard at times, I am not in that strenuous line of work at the moment. So I was confused as to why it all of the sudden came on.
I started really focusing on stretching that targets the lower back and hamstrings. It helps to a degree I suppose. I tried physical therapy, and it didn't do much. I try acupuncture and it does honestly feel great for that day. Like really good. But the pain inevitably comes back. I tried bikram yoga a number of times and while a very difficult practice, feels pretty good afterward. I've tried chiropractics with heat therapy over the last month and I guess it feels pretty good too. He took x-rays and it doesn't show a whole lot wrong with me. My hips are off kilter a few centimeters, some spacing in my lower vertebrae is a little close, and my neck is a bit too straight. I also have tried various supplements. But nothing ever gave lasting effects.
Anyway after coming across Dr. Sarno's name, I purchase "Healing Back Pain" and like everyone else here I saw myself written on the pages. I realize now that I have a LOT of repressed emotions that I have deeply bottled up over the years starting with my childhood from a pretty young age. The weird thing is that I always kind of new I was bottling them up. I just never thought anything would come of it. And well, as you can see, I was dead wrong.
Anyway I have finished the book and like I said, I am certain that this is what is going on with me. I have always had this feeling over the past 9 months that it's something along these lines strangely enough. I would even say to my girlfriend or my acupuncturist that "I think it's just serious tension in my back" and things like that. I guess I was right.
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stevep
106 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2011 : 10:21:23
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| One question I have right off the bat. If I wanted to eventually see a TMS physician, who would be the best to see in NYC? I imagine Dr. Sarno no longer practices is this correct? If any of you New Yorkers here could chime in that would be awesome. Thanks... |
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guej
115 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2011 : 18:50:15
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Hi Steve,
I'm not sure of anyone other than Dr. Sarno in the NYC area. I saw him in the spring of 2009. I'm pretty sure he is close to 90 years old now but still seeing patients. The only down side is that it is quite expensive (I think I paid $1300 two years ago, but about $600 was covered by my insurance).
His fee used to include group sessions where you would hear from a panel of former patients who had gotten better and shared their stories/methods, and then took Q/A from the audience. I found that extremely helpful. Unfortunately, shortly after I saw him he stopped having them. Your one time fee also gets you unlimited phone calls with him. It also included a one time educational session where you sat in essentially a classroom and he went over the TMS theory. I'm just not sure what his program entails these days. You can call his office and question his assistant and see if you think it will be worth your time and money to see him.
If not, don't worry. I know there is a benefit to seeing a TMS doctor, but many have gotten better without. See if anyone has any other suggestions for the tri-state area. Good luck. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2011 : 19:04:28
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I'd say definitely the Good Doctor Sarno, if I weren't on the left coast, I would have seen him years ago. I called his office about a week ago and was nicley shocked to have his receptionist Mary pick up the phone live! I asked if Dr. Sarno could do a phone consult about my arthritic hip. She said no, but he does correspond by mail and I have a letter to prove it answering some questions I asked him from years ago. He is still practicing from recent posts on this forum. His contact info is :
Sarno John MD
400 E 34th St, New York, NY 10016
(212) 263-6035
Good luck, see the man, I wish I could.
tt
==================================================
DR. SARNO'S 12 DAILY REMINDERS:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0dKBFwGR0g
TAKE THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale
Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
==================================================
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." Jiddu Krishnamurti
"Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional." Author Unknown
"Happy People Are Happy Putters." Frank Nobilo, Golf Analyst
"Be careful about reading health books. You may die of a misprint." Mark Twain and Balto
======================================================
TMS PRACTITIONERS:
Sarno John MD
400 E 34th St, New York, NY 10016
(212) 263-6035
Here's the TMS practitioners list from the TMS Help Forum:
http://www.tmshelp.com/links.htm
Here's a list of TMS practitioners from the TMS Wiki:
http://tmswiki.org/page/Find+a+TMS+Doctor+or+Therapist
Here's a map of TMS practitioners from the old Tarpit Yoga site, (click on the map by state for listings).:
http://www.tarpityoga.com/2007_08_01_archive.html |
Edited by - tennis tom on 12/08/2011 19:07:34 |
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stevep
106 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2011 : 21:41:35
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Wow $1,300?? Geez......I do have relatively decent insurance (empire blue cross), so maybe that would help. I dunno, I have to think about that. I'm kind of broke right now 
Couple more issues that are confusing me if someone would be so kind:
1) When it comes to stretching, what is the right way to go about it? I understand that you are supposed to discontinue any and all stretches and the such that target your problem area (lower back for me). What about when I go for a run for example? Should I not stretch out my hamstrings or IT bands because they do in fact effect your lower back (everything is connected). Because I tell you, I eyeball my foam roller everyday since reading the book still wanting to at least roll out my IT bands. So should I not do that? This has been extremely confusing to me.
2) Does acupuncture truly have no place in recovery? For me, acupuncture has felt better than anything else in the world. And I love my acupuncturist. She is somewhat of a therapist for me.
Ummmm I could have sworn there was more. I'm sure I'll think of it.
Thanks... |
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Aussie
Australia
87 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2011 : 22:22:46
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H Steve,
I am also new to TMS and seem to have very similar back problems in the low back to you. I have tried everything and i mean everything in the way of back excercises, Chiro, Acupuncture, Yoga, Back rehab classes and all help a little but the pain comes back. For the last 12 months i have spent on average 1 hour every day stretching and doing back excercises.. After learning of tms i have made the hard call to stop all excercise intended to "streghthen" my back as it goes against the tms theory. Since i have stopped the exercises i certainly didnt get an increase in pain so im going to focus on TMS as i have tried everything else with no improvement. Keep in mind you have to 100% believe the tms diagnosis to get a result! Since i have started to do this my pain has moved into my upper back,neck and strangely enough my arm.. Then my back will start hurting again and the other pains dissapear. Keep at it and realise this will take some time, Also if i had the chance to see Sarno i would jump at the chance, Investing in a lifetime of being pain free is worth allot more than $1300. Good luck. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2011 : 22:31:20
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| Spend your money on Sarno instead of acupuncture. I've probably had at least 200 acu sessions--don't ask me about it's efficacy, I don't want to burst your bubble. Go see Sarno, rob a bank if you have to. How much has TMS cost you so far? It will cost you a lot more monetarily and more importantly enjoyment of your life if you don't fix it. |
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stevep
106 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2011 : 22:48:08
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Well I will heavily consider it, I guess that's all I can say. I'll call and see what my insurance covers and take it from there. Thanks.
Does anyone have any insight into the general stretching question I posed? |
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susies1955
USA
30 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2011 : 01:36:15
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I'm a newbie at knowing about TMS BUT I have read Dr. Sarno's first book and I'm doing the Structured Educational Program here:
http://tmswiki.org/page/Structured+Educational+Program
and I have to say I'm 95% pain free.
I have three bulging discs in my neck along with instability and stenosis and I have a broken L5 in my back that is displaced along with the tail bone being deformed BUT and this is a big BUT........none of this matters because I believe what Dr. Sarno says in that it is a repressed emotion issue and not a body issue.
It was suggested to me to go see Dr. Sarno too as I live in northern NY but I'm not going to spend the money if I already believe it is in the mind. I did buy his second book and another book about TMS and I know I'm fine.
Hoping the best for you.
Susie |
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Bugbear
United Kingdom
152 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2011 : 03:40:34
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I'm so pleased for you, Susie!!
stevep, for most of us seeing Dr Sarno is not an option but there are plenty of success stories nevertheless, both on this forum and the wiki. If you put the thought into your mind that you won't get better without seeing Dr Sarno, that thought will prevent your recovery. You can do it, mate. |
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susies1955
USA
30 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2011 : 03:54:25
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Thanks Bugbear. :)
Susie |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2011 : 08:48:45
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If your condition is TMS then stretch all you want, but NOT with the thought that it is going to repair anything structural--because TMS is not physically caused but psychological.
Seeing a doctor gives a very powerful placebo OR nocebo effect. Putting Dr. in front of ones name bestows great powers to their suggestions, they are our shamans. Frankly, I don't get it--the cost thing. You're paying for your acupuncture aren't you? How much is your disability costing you in real life terms, now in the past, and in your future? Doctors are very generous about helping those that can't afford it, working out payment plans or pro bono. Not being more creative in attempting to see someone who could perhaps help you heal yourself the fastest way tells me perhaps you want to hold on to your TMS symptom for the protection it offers. TMS is a psychological defense mechanism that Dr. Sarno calls a PROTECTOR. It protect us from dealing with the situations we fear in life. Where there's a will, there's a way-beg, borrow or steal the money if you need to.
==================================================
DR. SARNO'S 12 DAILY REMINDERS:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0dKBFwGR0g
TAKE THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale
Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
==================================================
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." Jiddu Krishnamurti
"Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional." Author Unknown
"Happy People Are Happy Putters." Frank Nobilo, Golf Analyst
"Be careful about reading health books. You may die of a misprint." Mark Twain and Balto
======================================================
TMS PRACTITIONERS:
Sarno John MD
400 E 34th St, New York, NY 10016
(212) 263-6035
Here's the TMS practitioners list from the TMS Help Forum:
http://www.tmshelp.com/links.htm
Here's a list of TMS practitioners from the TMS Wiki:
http://tmswiki.org/page/Find+a+TMS+Doctor+or+Therapist
Here's a map of TMS practitioners from the old Tarpit Yoga site, (click on the map by state for listings).:
http://www.tarpityoga.com/2007_08_01_archive.html |
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stevep
106 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2011 : 10:01:32
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I am not paying for acupuncture. My insurance covered it completely. Either way, I haven't been in almost a couple weeks now.
When it comes to the cost, I mean it when I tell you I can't cover it. My credit cards are maxed out and I'm living paycheck to paycheck. I also don't have anyone that I can borrow from unfortunately. Does this make me seem like I want to hold on to my TMS? Maybe, I can see that. But I can assure you I don't. I've been consciously working on this every day. And I think that I may be able to overcome this on my own. If I can't, then maybe I'll rob that bank.
Thanks for the reply about stretching. It's still a little confusing though. How do you separate what goes through your mind from the actual stretching? Like, after a long run the muscles in my legs feel tight. How does one stretch them out without the thought that you are essentially relieving that tightness? |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2011 : 17:27:44
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quote:
Originally posted by stevep
I am not paying for acupuncture. My insurance covered it completely.
It's sheer madness that insurance will pay for acupuncture and not
Sarno. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2011 : 17:42:18
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Regarding stretching, stretch all you want with the intention that it makes you feel good after a run. Stretching muscles will not "fix" muscles that are tight due to the TMS process of oxygen deprivation. You need to stretch your mind around TMS theory. Read TMS books, listen to TMS audios and view TMS videos until you brainwash yourself and overcome all the nocebos instilled in you by all the other modalities that have not worked.
Good Luck! |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2011 : 22:54:37
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| Regarding stretching, I did a quick search here and 17 pages of threads with the word search came up. It may be a good idea as part of your TMS education to look at them. You will find the "Search" button on the top right corner of the page. |
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stevep
106 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2011 : 23:58:56
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| Thanks man good call. Just did a search and I see what you're talking about. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2011 : 08:10:00
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Thanks Steve, It was late when I typed, I was tired and it should have said search for "stretch", but you found it anyway, good. Hope it helps answer your question, I'm going to review TMS & stretching myself--I've forgotten more than I know.
Sorry to hear of your financial situation, modern factory medicine is the biggest threat to our wallets. A trip to the ER will run you thousands and three days in a hospital bed will wipe you out. I would still give Sarno's office a shot, and explain your situation. He's the last resort of many and probably used to seeing those who have been fleeced by the medical/industrial complex.
You are fortunate that you can still run. I did 13 marathons without a twinge of hip pain, it wasn't until I had a very bad relationship break-up that I became a "hippy". I run about 30 minutes in a swim pool with a flotation belt and hobble around the tennis court playing doubles or practicing. Don't give up the faith.
tt
John Sarno, MD
400 E 34th St, New York, NY 10016
(212) 263-6035 |
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stevep
106 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2011 : 12:34:43
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quote:
Originally posted by tennis tom
You are fortunate that you can still run. I did 13 marathons without a twinge of hip pain, it wasn't until I had a very bad relationship break-up that I became a "hippy". I run about 30 minutes in a swim pool with a flotation belt and hobble around the tennis court playing doubles or practicing. Don't give up the faith.
I am confused, man. Have you not found much relief in your years of trying to tackle TMS?? |
Edited by - stevep on 12/10/2011 12:59:36 |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2011 : 17:39:37
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Not everything is TMS, unfortunately (maybe) for me--but about 80% is. I use TMS thinking on an everyday basis to banish numerous pains, twinges and sensations, making them fleeting annoyances rather than potentially chronic injuries. Recently I rid myself of a "frozen" shoulder through TMS thinking. It wasn't overnight, it lasted about three months, but I did not have to undergo surgery many opt for at the drop of a hat these days nor have PT, etc., etc., etc. It may not even been due to TMS, maybe it was overuse swimming, but TMS "knowledge peniciilin" can contribute a powerful placebo effect, one of the mindbody's greatest healing tools.
To clarify your confusion over my hip, there's a recent discussion of it in the thread linked below :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7000&SearchTerms=hip
Hope you're doing better today, it may take time for the TMS "penicillin knowledge" to be absorbed on a cellular level. Keep studying the TMS materials--the answers to all your questions are there. |
Edited by - tennis tom on 12/10/2011 18:46:55 |
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fadoozle
33 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2011 : 17:51:08
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There is an article in this week's New Yorker about the placebo effect--now Harvard is interested in studying it and apparently finding ways for doctors to actually give out sugar pills as legitimate treatment. Wow!
I think acupuncture is about as placebo as it gets. |
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Hi I'm new here
