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flanker028
2 Posts |
 Posted - 08/29/2011 : 08:34:56
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While I never had any problems in accepting Dr. Sarno's ideas and explanations for psychosomatic pains, and overall approach in seeing the physical disorder driven by non-physical causes, there was one issue I had trouble accepting. This issue in question is his believe that pain is an 'diversion' by our consciousness, somehow preventing unconscious feelings deemed dangerous from surfacing to our conscious mind. On contrary, that pain itself is the main cause for us acknowledging the hidden within the unconsciousness, that after much search for curing our pain we turn to our inner self and address the real cause of it. To myself it seems like a last resort of the unconscious to call for recognition, to signal the gap between the known and unknown.
So, yes, the pain is caused by unconscious feelings/rage/anger/fear, but not as a 'wall' preventing them to surface. It is exactly for the need of acknowledging and recognizing these suppressed emotions that pain starts, like a wake-up call by our unconsciousness.
I managed to read some of the topics on this forum, but obviously not all of them so if this subject was already discussed, I apologize for bringing it up again. However, I was really curios to see other opinions on this matter as I struggled to comprehend Dr. Sarno's reasoning on the function of the pain. |
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Javizy
United Kingdom
76 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2011 : 09:16:02
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There's certainly no scientific backing for the distraction theory, but research increasingly supports many of Sarno's other claims. You have to appreciate how old Sarno's books are, and how he had to work before the recent boom in neuroscience research. Some people like to see the distraction theory as a metaphor, since the actual workings of the unconscious are still very much a mystery.
If you want to read more about recent research that supports Sarno's ideas, check out How Your Mind Can Heal Your Body (http://www.amazon.co.uk/How-Your-Mind-Heal-Body/dp/1848500238/) for a great summary. It's not just confined to these mindbody themed books with gimmicky-sounding titles either. Check out just about any modern pop-science book on neuroscience, and you'll see ideas supporting many of Sarno's theories over and over.
If you're trying to decide whether to give "TMS treatment" a go, I'd say not to hinge your decision on Freud or the distraction theory. Rather than religious-like belief in Sarno, like some people seem to need to cling to, simply accepting and exploring the role of the mind in your physical well-being can greatly impact whatever you're suffering with. |
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jjh2go
35 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2011 : 10:16:02
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I'm not sure it really matters if you believe it is a distraction or not. As long as you understand and accept the diagnosis, I think you are on the path to recovery.
There are people who believe the pain and other symptoms are expressions. Since the unconscious mind has failed at getting the emotions out through the conscious mind, then it resorts to something else it can do by causing symptoms. The symptoms then become physical pain rather than emotional pain. I don't subscribe to this thought for a couple of reasons.
First, the physical pain never goes away, but the emotional pain does. So, why does the physical pain last for months, sometimes many years? If you just felt the emotions, the emotional pain would last awhile but then it's over. You feel physical pain all the time, and feeling more physical pain doesn't seem to make it go away. Second, when I am stirring up my emotions by meditating and recalling past events, my symptoms begin to get worse. So now I am feeling more physical pain along with my emotional pain. Double whammy. If one was a "substitute" for the other, then one should go away. It doesn't work that way in my experience. Once I have fully expressed the emotional pain, then the symptoms go away. In my own personal experience, the physical symptoms are acting more as a distraction, just as Sarno has said.
If you subscribe to the theory that the symptoms are simply a "signal", then I think you should ponder why the "signals" get worse when those emotions come to consciousness. I'm not the only one who has experienced this. People on the forum have, and it is specifically mentioned in MBP.
In the end, it doesn't really matter. Acceptance and taking care of your unconscious mind is what matters. |
Edited by - jjh2go on 08/29/2011 10:19:26 |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2011 : 11:21:33
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Over analyzing the how and why of TMS can be a distraction in itself. Did you take apart the engine in your car before you bought it? Do you take your vitamins to a lab for analysis before swallowing them? The great thing about TMS work is you are the scientist and can draw your own conclusions as to whether it works or not.
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DR. SARNO'S 12 DAILY REMINDERS:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0dKBFwGR0g
TAKE THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale
Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
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"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." Jiddu Krishnamurti
"Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional." Author Unknown
"Happy People Are Happy Putters." Frank Nobilo, Golf Analyst
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Edited by - tennis tom on 08/29/2011 11:22:36 |
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flanker028
2 Posts |
Posted - 08/30/2011 : 08:43:03
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I was probably not clear enough with my previous query so…
quote:
If you subscribe to the theory that the symptoms are simply a "signal", then I think you should ponder why the "signals" get worse when those emotions come to consciousness. I'm not the only one who has experienced this. People on the forum have, and it is specifically mentioned in MBP.
Like I said, I did not read all the topics within the forum so the above information comes as a surprise. Surprise as I myself experience quite opposite, that any time I faced inner ‘issues’ and through reading or psychotherapy delved into some hard emotional matters, my pains decreased. Once I terminated my psychotherapy and went on with my life, the pains resurfaced after some time (this time was a back pain, as for the previous time was mainly migraine pains and depression). It felt like the pain returned as a ‘signal’ that not all the issues I needed to face were resolved.
quote:
I'm not sure it really matters if you believe it is a distraction or not. As long as you understand and accept the diagnosis, I think you are on the path to recovery.
quote:
If you're trying to decide whether to give "TMS treatment" a go, I'd say not to hinge your decision on Freud or the distraction theory. Rather than religious-like belief in Sarno, like some people seem to need to cling to, simply accepting and exploring the role of the mind in your physical well-being can greatly impact whatever you're suffering with.
Long ago I became aware that my issue does not have anything to do with structural problem, so there is no questioning in that regard. Neither does it matter in any way if pain is the distraction or the signal for the unconsciousness…not at all. My question was just a general ‘wondering’, as this was always felt as ‘not making sense’ while reading any of Dr. Sarno’s material.
As for the pains itself, I came to greet any of these symptoms as a blessing, since it offered struggle and obligation…to look within and face the ghosts of the past. Both served as a great tool in achieving awareness and knowledge. Recently I stumble upon a great ‘view’ that would probably be closest to my path taken
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1087
Anyhow, thanks for taking time in replying to my previous message
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jjh2go
35 Posts |
Posted - 08/30/2011 : 09:45:18
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Interesting that your pain doesn't get worse or move around when digging up emotions. The unconscious mind is unpredictable, so everyone has a little different experience. It may also depend on the severity. I consider my TMS highly severe.
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 08/30/2011 : 10:19:02
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In the Good Doctor's most recent book, "THE DIVIDED MIND", he theorizes that TMS/psychosomatic illness is not a punisher as Freud thought, but instead a PROTECTOR, a defense mechanism, to distract one from having to deal with emotional issues, that the subconscious is afraid of.
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DR. SARNO'S 12 DAILY REMINDERS:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0dKBFwGR0g
TAKE THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale
Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." Jiddu Krishnamurti
"Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional." Author Unknown
"Happy People Are Happy Putters." Frank Nobilo, Golf Analyst
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Wavy Soul
USA
779 Posts |
Posted - 08/30/2011 : 15:04:48
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This is really interesting. It was EXACTLY the distraction theory that made Sarno work for me, and made it different from all the Louise Hay-type crap I had been m*st*rbating my symptoms with for years (excuse my French, messieurs!).
I knew for decades that my illnesses had psychosomatic roots, but couldn't get any change when I asked my body what it was trying to tell me, etc. etc. In retrospect it seems to me as though my unconscious whatever (I think Sarno calls it the unconscious ego as opposed to the subconscious, or something) was positively REVELING in all the attention. It was like a hungry beast that would have allowed me to feed it forever. Recovery has not just been a matter of recognizing and feeling the feelings (which is an ongoing process) but also the very LARGE aspect of GETTING ON WITH MY LIFE NO MATTER WHAT. Woo hoo!
I have to say that the link above to the pissy post by Domenick has made my day (I just posted a new thread called Naughty Feelings before reading it) and has re-inspired me to keep being not such a nice person (internally at least) and transmute all that rage into some useful power for recovering all physical prowess.
xx
Love is the answer, whatever the question |
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Pain as suppressor of uncoscious feelings
