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amygreen
USA
13 Posts |
 Posted - 07/22/2011 : 18:34:23
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I've been doing the Sarno program for 2 weeks. The journaling has actually been digging up some issues that I've stuffed and I've gotten a lot of insights, but I'm not feeling any better physically yet -- and emotionally I don't feel "lighter and freer". I just feel basically sadder and weighed down by dealing with the emotional "stuff". Granted, if I were feeling any better physically, I would be rejoicing despite the emotional crap. but since I'm not, it's just kinda heavy. Is this normal? Is this just a typical stage of working through emotions that happens to most people who try this?
I know some of you don't like journaling and just work more at feeling hopeful and happy, but I've been sick and somewhat disabled for about 5 years and I've done years of the hopeful and happy stuff -- hasn't fixed me either.
What am I missing here? |
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alexis
USA
596 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2011 : 20:10:48
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I don't like journaling, but neither did I work at feeling hopeful and happy. What I did was something more similar to the journaling, but in my head without the writing. For me this was more aligned with my personality, but I don't think there's a real normal here...there’s a lot of variety in humans wrt happiness and emotional stress.
What you're really aiming for is to bring your understanding of your emotions more in line with your actual mental state to reduce cognitive dissonance. That may suck for a bit as you adjust and tweak the alignment, and you have to judge just how much of it is right.
Focusing too much on the negative can also bring you out of alignment (forcing more negativity than your brain is really in a state to receive). But if you want to take the “increased emotional awareness” route, you want to get your interpretation of your life and emotions to a state where it matches what's going on in your head, and then learn to ride your mental state as a partner, rather than trying to ignore or control it.
Alexis |
Edited by - alexis on 07/23/2011 06:29:52 |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2011 : 06:09:44
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I wouldn't expect insights into my emotional life to bring any sort of lightness or freedom. Lighter than what? Freedom from what? I also think sadness is normal at a certain age. I get the sense you're expecting something you're probably not going to get from this stuff.
Since I'm not too bright, I have to keep things simple. For me that involves an ongoing attempt to understand (in the sense of seeing and appreciating) the relationship between negative emotions (i.e. stress) and physical pain and disability. This basic understanding goes a long way toward lessening that pain. To my way of thinking, that's the TMS program in a nutshell. |
Edited by - art on 07/23/2011 06:11:04 |
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alexis
USA
596 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2011 : 07:05:06
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quote:
Originally posted by art
For me that involves an ongoing attempt to understand (in the sense of seeing and appreciating) the relationship between negative emotions (i.e. stress) and physical pain and disability. This basic understanding goes a long way toward lessening that pain. To my way of thinking, that's the TMS program in a nutshell.
Hi Art,
I totally agree that it's important to understand the link between emotions and pain to break the cycle of fear. In this regard I think learning from both alexithymia and anxiety research is very helpful.
But I think the emphasis on understanding (or at least better interpreting) the depth and complexity of emotions gets at the heart (again) of the distraction (or in some cases just mis-alignment) vs anxiety issues in psychosomatic pain. When a deeper ("better", "more aligned"...though not necessarily true) understanding of one's own emotional life will help is when you currently don't have an understanding of what's happening in your brain.
A particular set of issues arise when you interpret your life as just peachy, but there are other emotional issues going on in your brain (for example). This is the scenario similar to "blindsight" - when people see and can identify an object, but don't "know" they do. The brain has a lot of stuff going on but it's not consciously understood or is our of sync with the interpretation (your own story about your emotional state).
But I don't think this type of introspection or reinterpretation is necessary for everyone with psychologically related pain syndromes. Some simply have, for example, anxiety or anger related pain, and even though they fully know and are in touch with their emotional state well enough (have a good story) they don't recognize that that's what's causing the pain. In the simplest case, if you have a job interview coming up and you know you are anxious but you miss the memo that that makes most people a little nauseous, you may actually think you are sick. In that case, learning the anatomy of what causes what may be enough.
It may be enough even if you *do* have a distraction/psychological mis-alignment syndrome too (Sarno seemed to think for most it was)...but not knowing when you might get psychosomatic pain (because you don't have a consistent and predictive interpretation of your own psychology) will leave you in a position where its difficult to tell what is and isn't psychological. So if you do have a problem no knowing your own emotions it's going to be a much more stable scenario if you do some work to make your emotional life a bit simpler, more conscious and understood (again, not sure your understanding has to be "true"...I doubt it was through history. But it's probably best you believe it is and that it's predictive of your physical symptoms).
Here I'd describe three different psychological scenarios to make the distinction:
1. You DO know you are fearful (recognize some symptoms), have totally normal anxiety related nausea and muscle tension, but don't know those symptoms are related. You think you have an illness and also believe you are, coincidentally or consequentially, anxious.
2. You DON'T know you are fearful even though you have anxiety related nausea and muscle tension. You think you have an illness and do not believe yourself to have any fear or anxiety issues.
3. You DON'T know you are fearful even though you have or have had anxiety related nausea, muscle tension and or other symptoms. Additionally, you don't like the experience of being fearful, either because it is just unpleasant or conflicts with your own self concept. To avoid being or seeing yourself as fearful, or feeling any of the symptoms of anxiety you develop distractions...you watch TV, go running, talk to friends...and, unfortunately, develop other physical ailments (or magnify existing ones) to distract your attention.
Any of these (and more) can be scenarios in which you have psychological pain/illness. I think whether you need to learn more about your emotional self depends on which scenario is most applicable to your case. |
Edited by - alexis on 07/23/2011 07:31:25 |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2011 : 14:12:32
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Hi Alexis,
To tell you the truth I've been struggling to understand your position on this stuff. I get that we have a difference of opinion on the role of distraction: I think it represents an unneeded appeal to processes that at best remain poorly understood, while you believe it central.
But in practical terms, what are we talking about? TMS treatment consists of getting the patient (for lack of a better term) to understand that his pain is psychosomatic. It's usually explained that symptoms are cooked up by the subconscious as a means to distracting the patient from painful subconscious emotions. Such an understanding usually leads to a reduction or eliminations of physical symptoms..
But why? I don't think there's anything magical at work. In my opinion it doesn't really matter what the patient believes as long as it's sufficiently comforting to reduce his fear. In my view, fear, anxiety, stress, and worry are both the cause of TMS and in their sufficient reduction, the cure.
Would you mind giving me some guidance, using real life examples, as to what practical difference there is between our two viewpoints? I see your examples re the physical manifestations of anxiety, but in terms of your typical TMS'er visiting the forum, or reading the books, what exactly are we talking about here? |
Edited by - art on 07/24/2011 14:14:39 |
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alexis
USA
596 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2011 : 19:59:32
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quote:
Originally posted by art
I get that we have a difference of opinion on the role of distraction: I think it represents an unneeded appeal to processes that at best remain poorly understood, while you believe it central.
I think it central for some people, not for others.
quote:
But in practical terms, what are we talking about? TMS treatment consists of getting the patient (for lack of a better term) to understand that his pain is psychosomatic.
That's part of TMS treatment, but so are things like journaling and psychotherapy and personal exploration of emotions.
quote:
But why? I don't think there's anything magical at work. In my opinion it doesn't really matter what the patient believes as long as it's sufficiently comforting to reduce his fear. In my view, fear, anxiety, stress, and worry are both the cause of TMS and in their sufficient reduction, the cure.
Because you believe that all people suffering psychosomatic pain are experiencing the same thing; as you say above you think that it's really just anxiety. I think this is the problem for many, but that there are a diversity of causes and syndromes. And some will require a more involved solution than others.
quote:
Would you mind giving me some guidance, using real life examples, as to what practical difference there is between our two viewpoints? I see your examples re the physical manifestations of anxiety, but in terms of your typical TMS'er visiting the forum, or reading the books, what exactly are we talking about here?
If you are just suffering from anxiety symptoms, all you have to do is reduce the fear. There may be some serious issues that need addressing, but because fear of illness creates a feedback loop, it's actually quite likely that realizing the pain is psychologically induced is enough. So for treating anxiety related pain, simply understanding that the pain is not real has a high probability of being enough at least for a start. Then you need to address other anxiety realted issues and treatments.
If your issue is distraction this may work too, though there's a good probability you'll keep looking for distactions. What you're really talking about is avoidant behavior, and there are a lot of things you might be trying to avoid. In this context people will want to turn more to the recommendations on dealing with avoidant behaviors. Fear may play a large or small role, and some treatments, such as medication, are much less likely to be relevant. If, for example, your problem is that you're trying to avoid seeing yourself as an angry person, all the anxiety related books in the world aren't going to do you much good.
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Edited by - alexis on 07/24/2011 20:02:16 |
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just getting sadder
