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Starmonger
11 Posts |
 Posted - 06/04/2011 : 09:27:31
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Hello,
I'm not sure if I have TMS or an anxiety disorder. My main thing is chronic pain in my gluteal muscles and coccyx when sitting down, usually acompanied by a sensation of a lack of blood flow in that region. This I have had now for about 3 years. It comes and goes, but it hardly ever appears when in the company of others and talking, driving etc, it's only when I'm aware of it/worried that the symptoms and sensations appear it seems. So when sat at the computer for example, or when sitting alone, or watching telly. I do go for walks often, and do a bit of running, which seems to help in the short term only.
Other symptoms are chronic tightness in my thighs and knees, and back pain. These other symptoms are more recent, since realising that there might be a mindbody thing going on after reading Sarno's books, it seemed that my body shifted attention onto different areas.
Anyway, it seems that mainly fear/anxiety is the cause for me. Concentrating on the mind seems to help, because you can spot the fear impulse arise and let it go. However, I've hit a bit of a problem with this as it also seems that by focusing on the mind, I can get myself more anxious and stuck in a vicious cycle. It seems the key is to be confident and fearless, spotting the fears as they pop up and letting them go, but it just seems easy to get caught in the mind somewhere, actually making myself more anxious in the process.
Before when I thought they were just physical problems, I tried using trigger point therapy which did seem to work partially, though then the symptoms shifted from my buttocks into my knees and thighs. Then after realising there might be a mindbody link, the symptoms appeared in my back and buttocks (different part of buttocks) which meant that for a few days I couldn't even walk and was crawling around the house.
The past week or so I've been making progress. I'd recently bought a new office chair which I bascically couldn't sit in for more than 10 mins without it virtually shutting down the circulation to my pelvis, causing muscle pains. Since focusing on the mind as the source of the problem, i've been able to sit in it, sometimes leisurely for an hour. It's just it can be hard to know exactly what it is that I should be doing, what should i be thinking. Ultimately I think it's a state of non-anxiety about the symptoms, but to get to that state is difficult. For example: If I feel the chair and feel that actually it is comfy whilst I'm sat in it, and reasure the mind and body, this does seem to help, but then isn't that focusing on the body and not the mind.
Any thoughts? |
Edited by - Starmonger on 06/04/2011 09:40:30 |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2011 : 13:02:45
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You've just about got this stuff figured out.
This took me years to understand, so you're far, far ahead of where I was at your stage,,
Dr. Sarno's theory as you know involves unconscious rage, so be aware of that, but in my experience simply reducing/eliminating fear is all that's required.
Sounds to me like you're more than half way home. Keep reading, ask questions, and you'll do fine.
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2011 : 14:16:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Starmonger
I'm not sure if I have TMS or an anxiety disorder.
Don't be concerned with labels.
quote:
These other symptoms are more recent, since realising that there might be a mindbody thing going on after reading Sarno's books, it seemed that my body shifted attention onto different areas.
Good observation.
quote:
Anyway, it seems that mainly fear/anxiety is the cause for me.
You do not really know the cause as it is unconscious. Anxiety is an equivalent symptom to the pain. Fear keeps you focused on it.
quote:
...it just seems easy to get caught in the mind somewhere, actually making myself more anxious in the process.
Your mind will put up every roadblock possible to deter you from figuring out its tricks. You seem to be on the right track, just be persistent. Accept that you will not always be successful and the anxiety will come. Try your best to let it occur without allowing it to snowball. When you are aware of it, just remind yourself that it is just a benign symptom and it will pass. Then shift your thoughts to the emotional realm. Try to figure out what is going on in your life that your are not fully facing up to, that is affecting you on a deeper level than you realize.
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Then after realising there might be a mindbody link, the symptoms appeared in my back and buttocks (different part of buttocks) which meant that for a few days I couldn't even walk and was crawling around the house.
The randomness and shifting of symptoms increases the likelihood that it is TMS. Don't let your mind get away with this trick. Continue to ignore the symptoms and shift your thoughts to your emotional state.
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It's just it can be hard to know exactly what it is that I should be doing, what should i be thinking.
This is a common trap. TMS-prone people tend to be intelligent, but you cannot "think your way out" of TMS. It is an irrational process driven by primitive parts of our minds. Don't get hung up on what you "should" be thinking. You simply need to recondition your response to the pain. Follow the treatment suggestions and trust that over time, the symptoms will fade on their own.
Once you get to the point where you fully accept that the pain and anxiety are benign, you just need to ignore them as best you can. Accept the symptoms -- welcome them. They are simply telling you that there is some emotional baggage buried that you need to explore. Try to figure out what you might be repressing.
The most important aspect of recovery from TMS is to recondition yourself to change the way you think about and react to the symptoms. Think of it as a bad habit you need to break. It takes dedication and time, and there will be ups and downs. Often, the symptoms get worse before they get better. This is actually a good sign that your mind is getting desperate to keep you focused on the symptoms. Follow Dr. Sarno's treatment suggestions and take a long-term view. There is no quick fix or magic bullet. It is a life-long change in your thoughts and behavior. |
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Starmonger
11 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2011 : 10:25:16
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Thanks for the help and reassurance guys 
I seem to get a bit of a headache now sometimes, I think it's when I'm trying to focus on the mind and not the body, which seems to create a bit of stress and a headache. Tricky. Things work best when your not 'trying' to do anything, "do or do not, there is no try"-Yoda, but that's easier said than done. Otherwise there's a bit of a mental battle going on which often results in a headache  |
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Starmonger
11 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2011 : 14:21:42
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Well I've been making some progress. The main problem I'm now having is that I've basically decided that the pain in my buttocks is caused by lack of circulation to the muscles. I can actually feel when this kicks in, because I can feel a pulsing sensation which when activated means that my muscles, coccyx and thighs soon start to ache and the pulsing can be felt in them too. The problem is that I've developed a kind of anxiety over this pulsing sensation, which I believe is what's causing it in the first place (vicious circle).
So one part of the problem is pain signals, and not fearing them which is fine, spotting any fears arising etc, but the thing I'm really stuck on now is not getting anxious about this pulsing/lack of circulation feeling starting up. It seems possible to do, but very difficult. I can distract myself sometimes, or have a kind of 'iron will' and confidence which can keep it at bay, but often it just seems to take over and I can't escape from it. Not quite sure what to do at the moment with this. I believe it's the fear of the pulsing sensation that brings it on, and once it's started and is fully activated, It's hard to stop because then I'm in a state of anxiety, although I'm not 100% sure about all this.
It's like once the fears got a hold of me, there's no talking myself out of it, but before this stage is reached It can possibly be held back by spotting each tiny fear and anxiety impulse arising in the mind, before they get a chance to seep into my brain and establish themselves. |
Edited by - Starmonger on 06/09/2011 14:31:09 |
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golden_girl
United Kingdom
128 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2011 : 18:38:47
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What are you afraid of, Starmonger? Like, where will the anxiety lead? There's fear of pain, sure, no one likes being in pain but the anxiety - to what end? Perhaps it would help you to "chase" the anxiety? What I'm saying is, a lot of people seem to have anxiety here (I'm the queen of it!! :) but I can't always see what people are fearful of? My main fear is about embarrassing myself, which seems to lead to 'social death' which is therefore a fear of actual death... Not that that helps me, but trying to find out what YOU'RE ultimately fearful of may help you?
And then you can turn round and say **** it!!! :)
"F.E.A.R.
Forgive Everyone And Remember
For Everything A Reason"
Ian Brown |
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Starmonger
11 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2011 : 05:29:58
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| Yeah, I'm starting to think that there might be some deeply repressed feelings at work. Is depression itself a form of repression? It seems to me now that when I'm depressed (which is quite often), the pulsing (poor circulation) and related symtpoms arise, and I'm much more fearful of pain and doing anything, low in energy etc. If I'm in a good mood however and manage to stay that way, then I'm basically symptom free. Perhaps its realising that really, deep down, I'm not anxious of the pain as such, but something repressed which the pain and other symptoms are trying to distract me from, making me believe that its them that I'm depressed and anxious about. |
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Starmonger
11 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2011 : 10:38:27
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There's something which I could do with clarifying: if suppressed or otherwise fearful emotions and anxiety are the root cause of the symptoms, then should I aim to be mindful, fearless and thus not getting depressed, meaning no symptoms, Or... should I dwell in the depression, trying to see some hidden, suppressed emotion, thus making the symptoms worse, but in order to achieve some kind of release?
I'm thinking that there's a danger in this last method: what if it's not that there's one particular thing that's repressed and needs releasing, but just that my body is trying to distract me from these dangerous emotions, and really I shouldn't be going there. Is it better just to not be depressed and scared/anxious in the first place? So seeing these things as they rise up, before they can establish a depressed/anxious state. |
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golden_girl
United Kingdom
128 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2011 : 19:14:06
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Basically, if you want to look at TMS in Sarno's view then yes repressed emotions are distracting you with pain and you will never know what these exact emotions are, but the very act of looking within to find them ends the repression/pain distraction.
OR you can look at it that your symptoms arise from negative thought patterns which create the pain/anxiety/depression. These thoughts can be so insidious, that you don't recognise you're having them or realise the effect they could be having, until you look at them (through mindfulness, meditation etc etc). It's interesting that you say you have no symptoms when you're in a good mood! The day my niece was born earlier this year I was so happy and full of the joys of life I had no symptoms and felt on top of the world!!
Of course, you may look at it that your good mood comes from external things - people treating you well, a vacation, a work bonus, whatever - but wiser ones than I will tell you that it is your THOUGHTS about things that create your mood, not the things themselves that create your mood. So as hard as you (and I!) may find it to believe, we can be just as calm and symptom-free during a 16 hour shift as we can be sipping cocktails on the beach!!
By the way, depression is understood to be 'anger turned inwards' so I might have a look at what in your life is creating anger for you, causing you to have angry thoughts, and try to find a safe outlet for this anger, as well as changing your angry thought processes.
"F.E.A.R.
Forgive Everyone And Remember
For Everything A Reason"
Ian Brown |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2011 : 09:54:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Starmonger
...I've basically decided that the pain in my buttocks is caused by lack of circulation to the muscles.
Good. Then you agree with Dr. Sarno's theory that the brain causes the symptoms by reducing blood flow to the affected region?
Until you can fully let go of the physical explanation for the pain, the brain will continue to do whatever it can to firm up the belief in your mind that you have a physical problem.
It still seems to me that you are overthinking. TMS is an irrational process and nothing is to be gained from overanalysis. |
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Starmonger
11 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2011 : 14:17:59
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Yes, I'm definitely over thinking it. What you've said above about not letting the anxiety snowball- I guess that's probably what I'm doing- letting it snowball.
At the end of the day, whether its all driven by fear/anxiety, or distractions, they are both so, so similar anyway. The only difference that I can discern is whether one should avoid depression and fears altogether, thus not getting anxious, or whether one should consciously try to see what's behind these fears and depression, forcing the attention onto the deeper mind, thus stopping the pain (distractions), if that is what's going on.
Either the pain is caused by over-reacting and fearing, or its all a distraction from something bigger, which once seen, the cover is blown. It does seem though to go hand in hand with my mood. So if I'm trying to see what's behind the scenes, and making myself more anxious, there'll be symptoms, whereas If I avoid the whole mess altogether, knowing that my body is basically fine, spotting fears as they arise and letting them go, then there won't be any symptoms. Perhaps this is to do with brain/blood chemistry, and associated fear levels? It's only when a slight anxiety creeps in, or when the brain is flooded with fear and in a depression state, that it can't be turned off (the pulsing/lack of circulation), so this should be avoided.
The main practical difference then, is that with the distraction theory, it would say that the depression and anxiety are themselves TMS equivalents, and ultimately even when in these states, and in pain etc, one can see through them by forcing attention onto the mind and any deep underlying problems and worries. Whereas if it's driven by anxiety levels and or chemistry, then one should avoid depression and anxiety altogther via mindfulness.
To me it kind of seems more to do with anxiety levels and attention and focus and fear, although I keep oscillating between theories, and at time the distraction theory makes more sense. The two different angles have incredibly similar repercussions, but there is a major difference between them which I think I've outlined above, with regards to how you tackle the problem, although either way your still seeing the problem in the mind and therefore reducing it.
I guess I'm just obsessing over it somewhat, which is creating anxiety. |
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Starmonger
11 Posts |
Posted - 07/18/2011 : 11:46:27
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Thanks for your help so far. I'm still a little stuck, though i've made a lot of progress so far, but feel I've reached a plateau or taken a step down in the past couple of weeks...
If I try to forcibly shift onto emotional things that could be causing the problem, such as past regrets, being stuck in my life situation etc, then it makes me depressed. I know that when I'm in a good mood and free of worry then symptoms don't appear as much, but I'm not sure if this is something that I need to do and break through the barrier, so that I can re-integrate mind and body, and the only way is to go through the depression. Or perhaps the way I'm going about it is wrong, and actually one should be trying to feel and then resolve the issues, rather than dwelling in them?
Should I just stick to spotting the subtle fears and doubts arising, trying to stay positive and mindful, keeping it simple and not worrying about the process too much... or should I dredge up the past, dwelling in the negative emotions?... or should I try to be resolving these emotions by thinking about them?
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Edited by - Starmonger on 07/18/2011 11:50:58 |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
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Starmonger
11 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2011 : 04:31:45
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Sorry, I'm not making any sense and am going round in circles.
I think that maybe its not a good idea to constantly dredge up the past and dwell in negative thoughts, but rather just to be aware of these things on the surface instead of being aware of the pain, but not to attach to them. So for example, if I'm in pain, I might sit down for a minute and think about what I'm afraid of, e.g. fear of being stuck and in pain, then reassure myself that it's ok as its TMS, and to move on, then spotting any new fears or doubts as they arise in the mind.
The spotting fears and doubts arising part is good, as it can stop a problem developing. However when the fear is manifested as pain, perhaps one must just take a minute to think about what their afraid of, worried about etc. I'm just not sure that the whole forced focusing on the deep dark depths of buried sad thoughts is a good idea, but simply acknowledging the emotional rather than the physical, in a simple and natural way is better. |
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balto
839 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2011 : 04:39:27
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quote:
Originally posted by art
but in my experience simply reducing/eliminating fear is all that's required.
That was the key to how I "cure" myself too.
Many people read Sarno's books, realized the pain is harmless, lost their fear of the symptoms, and cease the pain. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2011 : 09:09:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Starmonger
Sorry, I'm not making any sense and am going round in circles.
... I'm just not sure that the whole forced focusing on the deep dark depths of buried sad thoughts is a good idea, but simply acknowledging the emotional rather than the physical, in a simple and natural way is better.
Yes. You are getting it. It will sink in if you give it some time to be absorbed on a cellular level. Yes, you do not have to go deep down into the dark depth of your psychological history to find some black lead bullet in time that will unravel some riddle. You need to just accept that the pain is HARMLESS, a distractor, a defense mechanism, a protective device. And say "thank you very much" to it "but I don't need you any more because I can handle this now", and move on with your life. Your issue since you're young, may be ambivalence over what it is you want to do.
DR. SARNO'S 12 DAILY REMINDERS:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0dKBFwGR0g
TAKE THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale
Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
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"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." Jiddu Krishnamurti
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Starmonger
11 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2011 : 11:49:01
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| Thanks a lot guys for the support. I guess I just have to keep going and try to slowly reduce the fear. I definitely seem to make more progress if I just focus on the fear and mental tension, rather than journalling and trying to find the 'black lead bullet' in the depths as you describe. Cheers |
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My story and concerns
