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EmiliaC
United Kingdom
8 Posts |
 Posted - 05/06/2011 : 21:52:49
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Hi, I am new to the forum and I would like to know what sort of TMS manifestations people have experienced in the knee area.
I used to have terrible back trouble from which I am now totally free and have been for 15 years because I read Dr. Sarno's book and realized that it was TMS. I told my brain to cut it out and it did.
But in the past few months, I've been developing traveling symptoms in my left foot and right knee. Pain jumps from place to place. Sometimes it's on one side of the foot, sometimes another. Sometimes it's the Achilles tendon. Then with my knee, sometimes it's the back of the knee and then it's the sides of the knee or it's the front. Then sometimes my calf muscles ache all night and keep waking me up. But the worst is this crazy stiffness that I get when I get up from sitting or sleeping. It's beyond ordinary stiffness. I feel like Frankenstein and then it feels like my knee buckles inward when I try to walk. This doesn't happen every time but it's awful when it does.
I assume this is all TMS because of the pain moving from place to place. I've been talking to my brain and making up little rhyming chants to make it go away (that's how I got rid of the back trouble)and it's working. It's been most definitely getting better. In fact for the last few days, I am almost moving normally and have next to no pains. So I am assuming and hoping that it's on it's way out.
But I could use some support from people who have had similar symptoms. My mother has been pretty much crippled by arthritic knees since her 40's (I'm 45) I am absolutely freaked that I'm heading in the same direction. However, I also suspect that my Mom's condition is a good part TMS. But part of me worries that I'm wrong. I do not want to go to a doctor because I'm so afraid of them doing some sort of scan and giving me all sorts of useless, bad news about degeneration. I think that's what happened to my Mom. She became convinced that she would never get better and she didn't.
Has anyone hear had manifestations in the knees? Dr. Sarno doesn't seem to address knee trouble very much in his books.
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shannclapp
62 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2011 : 04:54:24
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Hello
I am new so i may not be the most imformative but i do know runners knee is mentioned in the books and i THINK mindbody prescription has a section on lower body/ legs. i understand what u are saying with your mom, mine has ms and i think it triggers me to have this huge fear and thus creating ms like symptoms.
Anyway if you would like to let me know some of your chants that would be great!!! I am at the point where i need to learn what to say to my brain. Thanks |
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EmiliaC
United Kingdom
8 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2011 : 07:31:35
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Thanks for replying Shannclap. I had read that bit in Sarno's book, but I've noticed that knee stuff isn't discussed that much. I guess it's because back pain is everyone's main complaint.
The main chant I used with the back is "muscles release so pain will cease"
I would say that 200x in a row. Then I'd stop for a minute and say it another 200x. I literally felt all pain flow out the first time I did that. And I was lying in bed, unable to move my toes because I was in so much pain. I had one relapse after that and used the same chant again in the same way. The relapse only lasted a day. After that I would have mini flare ups for about a year and saying the chant just a few times would make them go away. And that was 15 years ago and I haven't had back pain since. I have had various other TMS sorts of complaints like stomach troubles, but they have been minor.
Right now, I just saw "Stop sending me stiffness and weakness and pain" very rhythmically. Or "I'm onto you brain, so stop sending me pain". I say them while I'm walking down the street and I'm sure I look like a total lunatic :) But they work. |
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shannclapp
62 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2011 : 08:04:13
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I understand my pain and issues are not back they are facial pain and more recently dental, gum & mouth weird ness. Of course going to all the Drs feed it and now it is a big deal. Hoping i can get the strength to get threw this. But like you say it is hard casue it is a "weird" symptom.
Feel better!! |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2011 : 08:09:03
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quote:
Originally posted by shannclapp
i understand what u are saying with your mom, mine has ms and i think it triggers me to have this huge fear and thus creating ms like symptoms.
Are you sure your mom has MS and that it's not really TMS? I know someone who was DX'ed with MS by a top research hospital. He thought he had it for years. One day he told me they told him he didn't have MS. I asked hum what he had and he said they didn't know. When they don't know what it is suspect TMS.
As far as knees and TMS, although the Good Doctor's first book had back in the title, his subsequent works have expanded TMS to most ANY area of the mindbody. In fact, Dr. Sarno's initial personal symptom, triggering his TMS theory exploration, were his migraines.
We all feel our personal TMS symptom gets short shrift in the books, that's a naturally inaccurate conclusion. Mine is hips and I feel Dr. Sarno should write a book on MY hip--or at least devote a chapter to it.
DR. SARNO'S 12 DAILY REMINDERS:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0dKBFwGR0g
TAKE THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale
Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
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"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." Jiddu Krishnamurti
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EmiliaC
United Kingdom
8 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2011 : 08:29:01
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"We all feel our personal TMS symptom gets short shrift in the books, that's a naturally inaccurate conclusion. Mine is hips and I feel Dr. Sarno should write a book on MY hip--or at least devote a chapter to it."
Hi Tennis Tom. Thanks for the reply. I don't think Dr. Sarno should be centering his book around my problems. I was just feeling paranoid because the knees are so rarely discussed and I thought "well maybe knees are different" So I wanted to know if anyone else had experienced similar symptoms and attributed them to TMS. As you know there is next to no support in general society for this line of thinking(!)so I thought I'd try here.
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2011 : 08:42:08
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Knee's are a classic and common place for TMS symptoms. I've had several bouts myself. I was once on the verge of surgery, decided to forget it and just keep running until either my leg fell off or the pain went away...
The pain was gone in three days...
Just about nobody gets here by accident. If you've had success in the past the chances are excellent you'll have success again...
Stop fearing the pain and you'll likely be amazed at the results...It's really all you have to do...
Shannon, same deal. Just stop worrying. You can tell yourself something is TMS all day long, but the pain is emotionally driven. As long as you're worrying, fearing, obsessing, you're delaying recovery. Not to mention wasting your life.. |
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Susie
USA
319 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2011 : 09:01:22
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| Hi Emilia, I'm going thru the exact pain and symptoms right now. Not to worry, this is my third trip with this knee. The last time the symptoms totally dissapeared in 3 days. This is my third day, so I'm thinking positive. Lacking alot of sleep, very hard to get comfortable. I had some very stressful news last week, so I know the cause of this. I would imagine that after reading your symptoms, I will be cured by lunch. Don't worry about it, it's just TMS. Try to keep busy and forget about it, I sure am. Susie |
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EmiliaC
United Kingdom
8 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2011 : 09:10:43
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Thank you, thank you, thank you!
It just occurred to me that this all started when my boyfriend and I decided to get married. I'm very happy about it, so I didn't think of it as a cause. But the brain fears change. |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2011 : 09:28:28
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| That's why it's important to think psychologically, not physically. The first thing I ask myself when something acts up is, "what's going on in my life?" |
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shannclapp
62 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2011 : 09:42:11
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So i need to aknowledge all that is going on in my life and think only about that not my aches and pains and weird crap?
thanks for everything everyone :)
Art - such a waste of life, i know it. |
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EmiliaC
United Kingdom
8 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2011 : 10:00:42
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Shannclapp, I think maybe the solution is just to assume that the pain and symptoms can and will go away if you accept them as manifestations of inner turmoil. In other words, accept them as bull**** sent from the mind!
I think everyone is different. Some people really find physical relief when they figure out exactly what's bugging them emotionally. But I think you can find relief without pinpointing the emotional cause too. That worked for me very well with my back. It's enough to acknowledge that your physical stuff is a result of the brain trying to prevent you from feeling emotional turmoil. Or maybe it gets confused and starts sending the wrong signals out in response to emotional stress. But I know from experience that you can just tell your brain to stop sending those symptoms and it will.
I think what delays it is the doubt that it will really work. Then you get fear of the pain never stopping and you get obsessed with the pain. So that can cause it to linger. But if you really keep believing that you can make it go away, eventually it will. I'm really glad I got on here because my symptoms were new to me, so I was letting fear partially take over. I'm very confident that I can be rid of them now.
As I said, the little rhyming chants work for me because the repetition soothes me. Maybe you can make up one for yourself and repeat it. See if it works for you. |
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shannclapp
62 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2011 : 13:04:54
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| Bull from the mind I love that, thanks :) |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2011 : 13:11:25
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quote:
Originally posted by shannclapp
So i need to aknowledge all that is going on in my life and think only about that not my aches and pains and weird crap?
thanks for everything everyone :)
Art - such a waste of life, i know it.
AH well, you're still young. Not to worry. You've come a long distance just in the few weeks you've been hanging around the forum.
The great thing about TMS self-treatment is it's so very simple when you get right down to it.. In my opinion, one could ascribe his symptoms to a moon made of green cheese, as long as that leads to a reduction in fear and worry..
It's no accident that so many of us are hypochondriacs. We literally worry ourselves sick. The slightest twinge, a barely discernible blemish, the mere hint of a sore throat and we're thinking, "OH my God. Stage 4 cancer! I'm a goner!"
It's laughable really, what many of us do to ourselves..
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Edited by - art on 05/07/2011 13:14:53 |
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shannclapp
62 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2011 : 13:59:40
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Seriously i do that, I was thinking why cant I just have a normal cold or allergies. But I wont allow it, I instantly have something much more sinester and it will not go away ever! it is really a sad thing. LOL
When I am not in a downward spiral I can actually look at it all and laugh!!!
Thanks ! |
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shannclapp
62 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2011 : 15:54:41
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Is it possible all my symptoms occur in the same "area" due to the fact I am hyper aware of that area so I am on high alret? Maybe normal occurances make me panic cause this is the are I am monitoring?
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2011 : 05:23:20
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TMS is like a tick. It attaches itself somewhere and that's where it stays until you starve it of its blood supply (fear).
Monitoring a body part for pain is driven by fear.
Stop fearing. |
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HopefulAli
Canada
16 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2011 : 22:50:37
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Hi gang!
What an interesting thread. A few things really stood out: EmiliaC, I also fear that I will end up like my mother, who has suffered from crippling back pain (and depression) due to "degenerative discs" that also showed up on my MRI. It's amazing how much these fears can take over our lives...
And art, what you said about monitoring a body part for pain being driven by fear is right on the mark, at least for me... wow.
I have managed (for the most part) to stop doing that with my back, but I am having a flare up of an old problem with my knee, and I saw this thread and thought I would come here and see if anyone could offer any words of wisdom.
Years ago (about 5) I had knee surgery to "fix" a meniscal tear that had caused me both knee pain (at first) and then quickly moved to hip and buttock tightness and pain, to the point where it was difficult to move around at all, let alone exercise. I slowly adapted (between this and other problems with my ankles and shoulders) to living a VERY curtailed life and not exercising at all. I was essentially a walking crippled person.
Over the years my knee and hip pain has improved, and then I got in my car accident two years ago. Since coming across Sarno's books I have made immense strides (no pun intended!) with my back pain and over the past few months started doing aerobics, dancing, and jogging, activities I used to relish. I would talk back to my back pain and perservere, and I had been doing well until last week.
When... drumroll please...my knee and hip started acting up again, seemingly out of nowhere. I had thought that it was just because I was "overdoing it" with the exercising, but the more I think about the more I wonder if it is, again, TMS.
It's hard because the pain feels so "real." It's swollen and tender to touch and my leg's movement is visibly constricted due to the tightness in my hip and buttock. You can feel the crunchy parts in my knee when it cracks... I guess it feels less abstract than my back pain in a sense, and perhaps that's why it's harder to convince myself.
BUT the fact that I had very little pain at all for years in that site AND that my body surely "knows" where to activate that pain at a (currently) quite stressful time does make sense that it would be TMS.
Hmm. Thoughts?
Thanks in advance! |
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EmiliaC
United Kingdom
8 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2011 : 10:31:10
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Hi Hopeful Ali,
That does sound like TMS to me. I'm beginning to think that it doesn't matter if things are structural in nature or not. Except in the case of acute injuries, talking to the brain always is going to help. I probably have a bit of arthritis going on but I have to think that the brain is taking that bit of stiffness or ache and turning it into full blown TMS attacks. Since I wrote that, I have been really trying to relax about everything and it works. I have had days when I feel completely normal which makes me think that it's mostly or all TMS. I feel like I've got it on the run. It's been very tricky for me because I have this fear about the knees anyway and now they've become a anxiety focus area. I'm very encouraged by the amount of relief I've found already however and expect to find more. |
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wrldtrv
666 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2011 : 19:24:41
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I don't think there is any doubt TMS can also affect knees. An example: A couple of years ago while training for a marathon, my right knee starting bothering me a lot, so much so that the day before the marathon I was wondering how I was going to complete it. Of course, the pain disappeared during and after the marthon, and for good measure, I later went in for complete x-rays, where I was told I had the wear and tear of a much younger person who was not a runner.
Many years prior, I went through a several year period where I was plagued by I-T Band Syndrome (knee also). Then, it completely disappeared and has never returned. Currently, I am moving towards more minimalist running shoes, and while the feet sometimes act up, the knees are completely fine. |
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Knee Weirdness
