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susan828
USA
291 Posts |
 Posted - 05/10/2011 : 19:36:20
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You're right on the need to feel afraid or else. This is the question I have posted on here, why, when I am out with friends having a good time, my mind will not leave well enough alone and has to ruin my night? A pain, a symptom starts and I feel doom and gloom. I go into the bathroom to get away, attempt some self-talk which doesn't work and wind up going home, crying in the street, "Why, why am I like this?"
Art, if you believe that just relaxing is the cure, do you believe in Sarno's theory? That pain is a distraction? I haven't been on this board since its inception so don't know if it's supposed to endorse Sarno or if we are free to disagree, so maybe someone can tell me. Also, Art, can you tell me how you relax...is it with self-talk or meditation or relaxation techniques? |
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susan828
USA
291 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2011 : 19:45:19
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Shannclapp, I can echo your post. I am always afraid that the pain will never go away and get worse when I get older and what if I am old and helpless and who will help me and if I'm in a nursing home, who will take me to the dentist and what if I can't verbalize anymore or get senile but am in pain. And what if I don't have the money for doctors and dentists and what if I stay this way, no man will ever tolerate this (I am single and not even looking now because who the heck would understand and put up with what he will perceive as neurotic). You're lucky you have a husband. I should have found one when I was younger and less crazy. Not that it's too late (a boyfriend will do, doesn't have to be a husband)...I have a lot of guys pursuing me but they don't "know". They'd probably run for the hills unless they were as understanding as all of you are.
So, all the what ifs, which is the core of anxiety. If we could eliminate those two words, we'd be a lot better off.
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wrldtrv
666 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2011 : 20:32:19
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| Yes, not only the fear, but far worse; the fear that it, whatever it is, will go on forever. In my case, the forever is always temporary...until the next forever fear. This catastrophizing is of course, hypochondria, or ocd or both. Does it really matter? The crux is fear. Last week I felt like I had tmj and I had thoughts of an aching jaw for eternity. Today, it is elbow pain, which has bothered me off/on for the past few months, which for the first time today, I catastrophized arthritis, though I know that is bogus. A few days ago, slight hip pain. Some pf on/off. Some shoulder pain on/off. Each of these symptoms in turn, and others too, take their turn in the limelight until they are scooted off stage by another. It's a day-to-day challenge, and it seems to me the only way to make progress is to periodically draw lines in the sand and resist the urge to panic. This strategy has actually been paying off of late, though it might not sound like it from the words above. |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2011 : 21:30:00
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Susan,
I do not believe that Sarno's distraction theory is needed, He wanted a mechanism to explain psychosomatic pain and with what I take to be his interest in Freud and psychodynamic theories of the mind, came up with the distraction idea.
It's my belief that TMS is basically an anxiety disorder, that is that fear and worry and stress lead to psychosomatic symptoms... and that the process can be directly reversed. An appeal to subconscious processes in my opinion is not needed.
I don't think Dave has any problem with a free exchange of ideas concerning the theoretical underpinnings of TMS. At least, he's never objected.
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2011 : 11:57:30
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My personal belief is that you should adhere to Dr. Sarno's explanation and treatment suggestions, if for no other reason than it has worked on thousands of patients over the past 40 years.
Some people do not like the "distraction" theory and prefer to think in different terms. I believe those who have been working at TMS recovery for some time, are fluent in Dr. Sarno's ideas, and have some successful experience at reducing the symptoms may find a variation that works best for them. TMS recovery is a highly personal journey.
However, I believe those who are just starting out learning the theory are best served by accepting Dr. Sarno's ideas and following his treatment suggestions. Thinking about alternate theories only clouds the issue, and may introduce doubt. Over-analyzing and thinking about TMS in intellectual terms can be counterproductive.
Ultimately, recovery is about modifying our thoughts and behavior. It is not about learning the exact science behind TMS. I believe it is impossible for humans to know or comprehend the exact science. Dr. Sarno's explanation makes sense to me, and to thousands who have been helped by him. But really, it is just a metaphor. Whether the symptoms are a "distraction" or "generalized anxiety disorder" makes absolutely no difference. What we call it makes no difference. What matters is how we treat it. And that treatment is very simple:
1. Repudiate the structual diagnosis
2. Cease all physical treatments
3. Resume normal physical activity as much as possible
4. When aware of the symptoms, shift your thoughts towards "bad" emotions that you may be unknowingly repressing. Be fully honest with yourself. Think about -- and try to feel -- those uncomfortable, forbidden, frightening, embarassing thoughts and feelings that you may be avoiding. Note, it is not important (or possible) to figure out exactly what repressed emotions might be causing the TMS symptoms. This is simply an exercise to recondition your mind to think about and react differently to the symptoms. It is an alternative to focusing on the symptoms, or on the anxiety that builds as you fear that there is something structurally wrong.
That's it, in a nutshell. Don't make it more complicated than it needs to be. |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2011 : 14:10:26
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I actually agree with the notion that it can cloud the issue for the newcomer, Dave. I do my best to qualify everything I say to a newbie by emphasizing that it's just my opinion re distraction, and that I have no special expertise at all, and that Sarno's theory is actually XYZ.
I tend to bring this issue up especially when someone's struggling with journaling, or feeling like they're delving deep into their emotional issues and not getting better.
All that said, I'm as convinced as convinced can be that this whole distraction thing is basically a dog and pony show that gets in the way of recovery for some people. I understand Sarno's desire to come up with a convincing mechanism with respect to why symptoms appear, and another mechanism to explain the pain itself (blood flow), but in my entirely inexpert and unprofessional opinion, I think he's wrong.
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quinn
5 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2011 : 12:49:22
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| My name is Charlotte. I am new but I seem to be making a little headway in just a week. I really like what Art has to say. I am in therapy (cognitive) and a member of AA for 8 years. I really like Arts comments. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2011 : 18:25:00
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quote:
Originally posted by art
All that said, I'm as convinced as convinced can be that this whole distraction thing is basically a dog and pony show that gets in the way of recovery for some people. I understand Sarno's desire to come up with a convincing mechanism with respect to why symptoms appear, and another mechanism to explain the pain itself (blood flow), but in my entirely inexpert and unprofessional opinion, I think he's wrong.
Not to be argumentative, but Dr. Sarno doesn't care much about discovering the mechanism that creates TMS symptoms. He has stated that the brain is so complex we may NEVER discover the cause/causes. He just knows his method can work for those who are open to accepting emotions can cause physical or affective symptoms.
For those who are not emotionally ready or capable of accepting his theory, he allows them to keep their pain. He considers it a protective defense mechanism. Offering them protection from emotional pain their subconscious perceives to be worse than the physical.
I have no clue how my computer works or what's inside it, I'm just happy if I don't lose a post, get angry about it and raise my reservoir.
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DR. SARNO'S 12 DAILY REMINDERS:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0dKBFwGR0g
TAKE THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale
Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
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"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." Jiddu Krishnamurti
"Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional." Author Unknown
"Happy People Are Happy Putters." Frank Nobilo, Golf Analyst
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Edited by - tennis tom on 09/12/2011 20:46:25 |
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Just when I thought I was getting somewhere
