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blues51
8 Posts |
 Posted - 02/15/2011 : 14:21:28
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Here's a little back story for what I've been dealing with before I get to my questions. I'm 24 and had been having neck/shoulder pain for about a year before I went to see an orthopedist and got an MRI. My chosen sport is Brazilian Jiu Jitsu (similar to collegiate wrestling if anyone is not familiar with this) and I trained with this pain for about 6 months thinking it wasn't anything serious if I could still train. Eventually I got REALLY debilitating headaches which prompted me to seek medical attention. The mri revealed two disc protrusions (4-5mm) in my cervical spine (I don't have the mri report with me so I don't remember the exact disc numbers).
One orthopedist recommended I give up jiu jitsu because I could risk paralysis by falling the wrong way and the second (a "sports" orthopedist) said he's seen athletes come back from similar injuries. I saw a chiropractor for 2 months with and got little to no relief and have been doing physical therapy exercises and resting for the past 4 months with minimal improvement.
I took a shot in the dark after reading online about Dr. Sarno's Healing Back Pain book and have been very interested with what I've read. I was skeptical while reading the book but kept an open mind and I feel my pain definitely could be TMS related. I seem to fit the TMS "personality" that was described because I've dealt with anxiety and depression issues since my teenage years (I actually initially saw a psychologist when I was 16 when I got pains in my hands that I was told were caused by tension). After my classical medical "diagnosis" of disc problems I've become very depressed because I've been told that I need to avoid/quit doing all the things that I had used to cope with my initial anxiety problems (jiu jitsu, playing guitar, surfing), all of which aggravate my "injury".
After reading the book I have felt some pretty remarkable improvement at times (sometimes the pain in my shoulder is next to nothing when I wake up) but I am still having trouble completely accepting Dr. Sarno's point of view (that my disc protrusions are essentially benign and the pain is nothing to be scared of).
I guess I was wondering if anyone had been able to return to playing any contact sports like football, boxing, wrestling etc. after recovering from TMS? I know in Dr. Sarno's book he mentioned a case study of a 25 year old man who was able to return to playing basketball, but my sport is unusually hard on your neck (it involves chokes, neck cranks, and the like). I also have been training to be a paramedic/firefighter and have been very concerned that my injury could prevent me from pursuing this further.
I apologize in advance for the rambling nature of my post (I've never posted on a forum before) but I am truly desperate for some relief and feel Dr. Sarno's approach might be the answer I've been looking for. ANY advice/words of wisdom/encouragement would be greatly appreciated!
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Back2-It
USA
438 Posts |
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skizzik
USA
783 Posts |
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blues51
8 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2011 : 01:50:30
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Hey thanks so much for the quick replies, those links were all very interesting. I was actually reading about nate quarry and tito as examples of surgery success stories so it's cool to look at it from a TMS perspective.
Just wondering Skizzik do you train mma/grappling at all, you seem to be into it  |
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skizzik
USA
783 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2011 : 05:46:46
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quote:
Originally posted by blues51
Just wondering Skizzik do you train mma/grappling at all, you seem to be into it
I'm an mma fan. Me and my best friend at the time went nuts studing Ju-jitzu when mma first came out and Hoyce Gracie whooped thru that entire first tournament beating guys 100 lbs heavier than him.
There was no internet back then, so we ordered Hoyce ju-jitzu video tapes and would practice the moves in his living room to the dismay of his mom. I was 17 then I think. I stopped watching until the first reality show came out and it was sanctioned with weight classes and rounds and have been hooked ever since.
I don't practice now, unless you count wrestling my kids on the living room floor to the dismay of my wife and I throw in arm bars and mount escapes so they know what they're doing if they ever get into a scrum with some bully.lol. Currently I rediscovered my passion for fitness and love going to the gym and eating healthy.
And though I may not be a fighter, I sometimes visualize being one on the way to the gym, think about my imaginary opponent and what he's doing to try to beat me, and I have a good workout.
(don't tell anyone that, very embarrasing) |
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HilaryN
United Kingdom
879 Posts |
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blues51
8 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2011 : 16:22:46
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So do you guys think I'd be best off trying to get over my fear and jump back into jiu jitsu? I've considered doing this but I'm worried there is still part of me (definitely subconsciously) that believes there could be a structural problem going on. Or should I maybe ease into activity a bit more?
As an update I did more pushups and ab exercises than I've done in quite a while and felt pretty good while doing them. I feel stiff in my neck and shoulder but I'm trying to ignore the pain. |
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skizzik
USA
783 Posts |
Posted - 02/17/2011 : 04:46:26
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quote:
Originally posted by blues51
So do you guys think I'd be best off trying to get over my fear and jump back into jiu jitsu? I've considered doing this but I'm worried there is still part of me (definitely subconsciously) that believes there could be a structural problem going on. Or should I maybe ease into activity a bit more?
As an update I did more pushups and ab exercises than I've done in quite a while and felt pretty good while doing them. I feel stiff in my neck and shoulder but I'm trying to ignore the pain.
You have to come to your own conclusions IMO in order to heal. But, heres one of my favorite posts from 12/30/2004 "FarmerEd" said:
Hello MR
In a nutshell you are standing at a crossroads. On the one hand you have the medical community telling you this is totally a physical problem. Your back has been damaged and you must be extremely careful or you could do further injury. You must watch the way you walk, stand, sit, lift and lay down. Possibly for the rest of your life you will have to watch your posture, do special exercises and lead a resticted life physically.
On the other hand you have Dr. Sarno and members on this board telling you that you have a psychological problem. There is nothing physically wrong with your back structurally. The pain is real, but it originates from rage in your unconscious mind. Your back is strong and it is very difficult to damage it. In fact it usually takes a very traumatic event like a severe car wreck to do permanent damage. Slipped and bulging disks are normal and do not cause pain.
These 2 sets of information are totally incompatible and that is the problem that has you at the crossroads. If you truly believe the medical community then following Sarno's methods would be a very foolish choice. If you choose to believe Sarno then the methods employed by the medical community look quite silly. If you try to incorporate some of each you wind up opposing both, so here you sit.
I have a strong conviction that a person's actions will bear out what they truly believe deep down inside. No matter what words come out of there mouth, their actions will show what they truly believe. If you say you believe Sarno but still use all the exercises, special pillows, physical therapy, etc, I think your words don't match your actions and I conclude you don't believe Sarno.
I can't tell you what to do. All I can tell you is that believing in Sarno's theory and acting on it changed my life. I was a basket case for 3 years. I was told I had to be careful how I stood, sat etc, or I could wind up paralyzed. After putting up with the misery 3 years, I choose to believe Sarno. It was difficult and somewhat painful at first, with setbacks along the way, but I always went back to doing things that repudiated the thought there was something physically wrong with my back.
That was over 2 years ago and as I write this I have just come in from hand splitting wood, putting out over a half ton of mulch and hand spreading fertilizer on 2 acres of pasture and this is a normal work day. Am I tired and have some sore muscles? YES! Do I have the terror and paralyzing pain like with TMS? NO!
Good Luck. |
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blues51
8 Posts |
Posted - 02/17/2011 : 05:40:00
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Wow, very well put. Things seem to be making a lot of sense the more I think about it. My neck/shoulder pain has been better the past week (not near 100% but definitely better on an aggregate level). I've been experiencing a lot of anxiety/sleeplessness along with more tension headaches (which would usually freak me out b/c I was told this could be caused by my neck) but I'm actually encouraged by this since that points to the TMS diagnosis (body trying to use other pain to cope with emotional issues now that the neck/shoulder pain is not getting as much attention).
And once again you guys are awesome for taking the time to help a brotha out  |
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blues51
8 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2011 : 02:31:21
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| I just had a quick question about swelling and TMS. I've been getting back to more physical activity (went surfing for 2 and a half hours the other day and have been playing a lot of guitar. My left trap muscle is swelling a bit (it looks like I'm shrugging my left shoulder when I look in the mirror)and this has always been happening when my neck pain is "bad" (usually when I do physical stuff). I know I'm still getting caught up on the physical but it would calm my mind if I knew that TMS could cause some minor but noticeable swelling and I just need to continue to ignore it. |
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blues51
8 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2011 : 02:33:41
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| anybody????? |
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Back2-It
USA
438 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2011 : 08:05:05
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blues51...
quote:
My left trap muscle is swelling a bit (it looks like I'm shrugging my left shoulder when I look in the mirror)and this has always been happening when my neck pain is "bad" (usually when I do physical stuff). I know I'm still getting caught up on the physica
I'm no doctor and I quit playing one on the internet, but what I've learned from others here and TMS reading, is that the mind can do strange things with the body, including, I believe, make it look different than reality or from how it alway was to the owner. For instance, my right abdomen when standing stretched out further than my left. This in my mind puts pressure on my back and gut all the way around in a line, yanking and pulling at things. Is my abdomen not symmetrical? Yes. Is it causing the problem or is my mind? Why the discomfort and pain there? Usually it's worse at the end of a day or when I've been doing something, too.
However, I've noticed that since I have resumed jogging it seems less out of whack. Because it's less out of whack so is my brain. Or is it the other way around? |
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blues51
8 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2011 : 04:13:30
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| I don't think I'm imagining it b/c my doctor was the one who initially brought it to my attention that it was swollen (and other people can tell too). I just wanted to know if TMS can go as far as causing swelling or does this really point to a muscle sprain/strain issue (as my md told me a long while ago) |
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Back2-It
USA
438 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2011 : 07:09:52
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quote:
I don't think I'm imagining it b/c my doctor was the one who initially brought it to my attention that it was swollen (and other people can tell too). I just wanted to know if TMS can go as far as causing swelling or does this really point to a muscle sprain/strain issue (as my md told me a long while ago)
Somewhere in HBP or MBP or both Sarno does say that he does see swelling. Don't forget, the physical pain is real and it can involve muscles, nerves and tendons. I had horrible swelling of my paraspinals and other back muscles, not to mention my still out of whack side. It all hurt.
I know I sprained my ankle long ago running; really tore it up badly. It was tender and sore and larger and lumpier than the other for about a year; and then weak for many years after that, so I guess a sprain can have lingering effects.
But...
Continued testing of your muscles might be the only way to find out more. Or tests for infection. Or tests for tests. To ease your mind you might have to do it. Hopefully --likely--- they will find nothing wrong. But like one honest doc told me when I questioned him about my abdomen and the hurt it produced. He said that if they look hard enough and long enough they will find something wrong. Maybe something totally unrelated to muscle soreness and swelling. |
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EileenTM
92 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2011 : 12:13:48
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| Don't be so sure about lingering effects of a sprain. In my 30s I tore ligaments in both ankles at different times. They were huge and swollen. But after about 6 to 8 weeks, both healed 100% and I have never had any lingering effects. Of course, I have had many other TMS symptoms. But those are another story! |
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blues51
8 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2011 : 00:57:06
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I just wanted to thank you guys for your responses, they've all been really helpful.
I'm feeling MUCH better the past week or so. It's amazing how much better I've felt after less than a month! I don't feel 100% but I've been surfing and playing guitar more with much less pain and I want to try to train a little jiu jitsu next week to see how it feels (trying to get back to my physical routine to get over the fear). My overall pain is down I'd say 80% (sometimes I feel pretty damn close to 100%) and it seems to be getting better by the week.
Hopefully I can post a video of me at a bjj tournament in the success stories pages some day.
Thanks again to everyone who's responded to my rants and anyone skeptical about Dr. Sarno's method (look at my posts less than a month ago hah) I'd urge you to give it a shot b/c you really have nothing to lose and a lot to gain (man I sound like an enzyte commercial).
"we are all one" - Genki Sudo
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young guy looking for some help/support
