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marytabby
USA
545 Posts |
 Posted - 06/08/2010 : 16:27:58
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For those of you who don't know me, I've been on this board since 2005. I don't visit here much and I apologize for that. I used to have debilitating back pain/neck pain. I have made a lot of progress over the years thanks to all the Sarno books and this forum. I do still have some chronic female related symptoms but I deal.
So here's my story which I am probably enraged about I'm sure...
I made a new acquaintance back in December. In April she started having debilitating back pain. Nothing caused it, no accident or disease or anything. She attributed it to a group workout we took at our gym which was like a boot camp type workout. Nothing about this workout is enough to cause the back trouble. It is classic TMS trouble. This I know from my great education with Sarno books and this forum. She said her doc said she "sprained her lower back" and is now in PT with no success. So of course I gave her a brief overview of TMS and how I have had much success with the books, etc. I offered to let her borrow my Healing Back Pain book. She said no, I'm not interested. Ok, I didn't push. So now she won't talk to me anymore and her friends on her social networking web site are making comments about this "friend of hers who has some nerve telling her it's all in her head" which I never said. I asked her if I did something wrong, is she mad at me because she doesn't return my calls or emails anymore. She said no, and those comments aren't about you they're about someone else. OK, perhaps... but bottom line, this person no longer will speak to me. So moral of the story is... when you try to help someone to get better from TMS, you really do put yourself out there to being disliked and dis-friended. It's a rocky road to be on and takes a lot of courage because most people will not accept the simplicity of the TMS concepts and you may find yourself not liked anymore. Talk about a perfect case for me being enraged and getting a whole host of bodily symptoms! I think I'll go start up a back ache over this now. NOT!!!!!! |
Edited by - marytabby on 06/08/2010 16:46:47 |
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larrysusan
USA
1 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2010 : 19:08:59
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I hear you Mary. Sarno's books gave me a new life and I still marvel at how incredibly simple it was and is. I found myself wanting to help others whenever someone complained about their back hurting. I tried to avoid saying the pain was in your head by stressing that the pain was indeed real but it was triggered by the way your mind or ego dealt with stress. Invariably, many think I'm saying it's in their head and not real pain.
Now I just briefly tell them SArno's method worked for me when my back was incapacitating me and watch closely for their interest. If they don't pursue any more discussion in my direction I drop it.
I find few people open to the concept, nevertheless, I keep extra copies of Sarno's books in case I find an adventurous soul. |
Edited by - larrysusan on 06/08/2010 19:21:43 |
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susan828
USA
291 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2010 : 21:09:48
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I have encountered the same resistance from people. Nobody has de-friended me but I think no matter how gently we phrase it, women are especially sensitive to this because they've been told by doctors that they need psychological help, it's all in their head...things that doctors don't usually say to men, not as often anyway.
You tried and the person misinterpreted you. I have had temporary anger at friends over things said but if they're a good friend, it is talked about and resolved. Her anger at you is probably partially responsible for her pain...she just sounds like she's taking it out on you. We're ALL angry to a degree, I think Sarno is right. I hope you don't personalize it and instead give yourself credit for sincerely trying to help someone. It's her loss if you're right and she's not open to helping herself, at least exploring the possibility that you're right about the cause of her pain. You did a good thing so yu can walk away from this feeling good. Please keep that in mind. |
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marytabby
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2010 : 03:00:51
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| Thanks! Yes, I do feel good because my intention was not to hurt but only to help. And I didn't push it. I just offered the book. Oh well. This is where my life now gets less complicated if I don't allow it in! I try to think about bigger fish to fry in my life and move on with dignity. |
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Sam908
70 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2010 : 05:18:50
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While I've also not been "de-friended," it's clear that if the friend or relative doesn't quickly show interest in knowing more about TMS, it's best to drop it, right then and there. Interestingly, one of the most resistant persons to these ideas is the friend who actually suggested that I read Sarno's books! Of course, he asserts that his situation is different and his back pain definitely requires surgery.
In situations like this, I'll simply say something along the lines of, "Isn't it interesting that folks didn't complain about RSI or carpal tunnel syndrome back in the days when manual typewriters were in use," and let it go at that. |
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HellNY
130 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2010 : 06:35:19
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I think that we all have to be careful and size up whether the hurting person in question is ready to hear the concept. We are all ourselves convinced that we have "seen the light" and emerged from chronic pain and only wish others can benefit the same.
Problem is that also fits the description of some evangelical religious people I know who try to always "share their faith" with others in the hope of converting them. The factors are the same: teh discovery of something that is life-changing and the desire to help others with that.
The goal is to try to do that without becoming a TMS evangelist. Im learning that with my mother. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2010 : 08:50:59
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I just tell them there's a doctor at NYU Hospital, that heads the Rusk Rehabilitation Institute, who's written books about your problem, that might help.
If they show no interest, I conclude they don't really want to get "well" but NEED their physical symptom to distract them "from the anticipated greater emotional pain that is considered more dangerous than the physical pain. This is a paradox that is often difficult for patients to grasp: that the physical pain is intended to protect them, not to harm them." (from: "THE DIVIDED MIND", page 176-177.)
Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
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catspine
USA
239 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2010 : 15:06:09
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Maryalma8,
When every else fails to work eventually your ex friend might end up reading from this forum and realize what you were trying to do.
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Hi TT
If the purpose of pain is 'good' could that mean that there are masochistic people out there who would want to keep the pain the way it is?
I had never thought of that...Now the question is can one become masochistic in the process of 'sitting with the pain' or welcoming it like some members of this board talk about?
Ooops! I hope this doesn't get misinterpreted...I meant that one gets accustomed to pain and chooses to stop at that level in the healing process.
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Susan828
How have you been? |
Edited by - catspine on 06/09/2010 17:30:02 |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2010 : 01:28:39
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quote:
Originally posted by catspine
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Hi TT
If the purpose of pain is 'good' could that mean that there are masochistic people out there who would want to keep the pain the way it is?
I had never thought of that...Now the question is can one become masochistic in the process of 'sitting with the pain' or welcoming it like some members of this board talk about?
Masochism is a form of sexual perversion based on pain and humiliation. People into it seek it out consciously. TMS is operating on a subconscious level. It's going on in the back-ground of our minds. I'm not sure if I would refer to it as "good", maybe the lesser of two evils. It's a defense mechanism or protection against feeling dangerous emotions, that our subconscious has decided we can't handle.
I think the best thing would be if we could raise our level of consciousness to feel and confront these dangerous emotions, therefore freeing our bodies from the physical pain distraction.
Well, I guess if one consciously chooses masochistic behavior to float their boat, they would be doing so through their personal freedom of choice. Personally, hanging around tethered to fish-hooks from the ceiling is not my idea of pleasure--I'd prefer Thai massage or some Rolfing, less susceptible to infection.
Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
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Edited by - tennis tom on 06/11/2010 01:32:33 |
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catspine
USA
239 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2010 : 13:48:10
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Hi TT
Thanks for your comment. I'm glad you saw nothing personal in this question as it was not meant to be so .I was still in the context of TMS pain when I wrote this line about being masochistic , because a few months ago a member on this board with a lot of issues admitted to being masochistic about the symptoms she was struggling with. It didn't occur to me at that time that people into it seek it out consciously so I guess that it answers the question.
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Effie
USA
46 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2010 : 13:14:06
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| I had a coworker who really needed to know about TMS, but every time the subject came up, I just kept mentioning how grateful I was that I had gotten relief from reading "The Divided Mind" and kept putting it in the context of my own pain relief with no emphasis on her problems -- eventually she became curious and I offered to loan it to her. Now she's my best advocate, and we help keep each other on track. I noticed it in another coworker's office last week and he mentioned that she had loaned it to him! One thing I've always emphasized when venturing to talk to people about TMS is that the pain is REAL . . . we all know that from our own experience and it can't be emphasized enough. I know I would have been turned off initially too if I even remotely believed that someone was telling me it was "all in my head." You really can't do this until you're ready . . . and your former friend is obviously not ready. |
Edited by - Effie on 06/13/2010 13:23:11 |
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marytabby
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2010 : 06:07:22
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It's hard for those of us who have had success with this to keep hearing the person complaining over and over how they can't sit, they can't stand, they can't sleep, they can't walk, run, bike, watch TV, drive their car. And to the person who doesn't want to hear about TMS I just say, "yep, I know I've been there, but thank God I'm better now."
That's all I can do. Then I say, "I hope you feel better soon." |
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2scoops
USA
386 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2010 : 10:51:35
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Yes, there are people out there that will get angery if you talk about psychosmatic symptoms. I've been cussed out, threatened at work not to talked about anything that is medical related that conflicts with western medicine, (I work for a health clinic. Some are grateful, some are just being nice and say thank you, some get angry. The only thing we are responsible for is passing along truth. Maybe the goodist comes forth in us and we think we must make them believe or accept the diagnosis. We offer books, insight, etc and yes, it can be tough to experience rejection. Matter of fact, a lof of people who experience TMS are afraid of rejection.
If you have presented your beliefs to her, and tried to help, than that is all you can do. I'd say let it be. Ifr she wants to know more or gets desperate enough, maybe she will contact you. True friendship is about love and forgiveness. |
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RageSootheRatio
Canada
430 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2010 : 11:22:13
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| Well, maybe there is not much of a "goodist" in me, but I don't feel any need to tell anyone about TMS. I actually consider it my little secret. :o) I also don't really mind hearing about others' "fibromyalgia" as that is their reality and they all know that not everyone "believes in it" so they have chosen to take that on, as opposed to choosing a more psychosomatic explanation for their symptoms. I just figure there is a TON of information out there on psychosomatic ailments, and if an individual was ready to pursue that strategy, they wouldn't have to look very far for information/ help. So I don't feel any particular need to "rescue" anyone ... or maybe I am just a non-caring, non-goodist! |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2010 : 05:19:27
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| About ten years ago someone gave me Healing Back Pain and I've always been grateful. I try to "pay it forward" when appropriate, but just about never with good results. |
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Darko
Australia
387 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2010 : 20:19:21
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Marytabby,
I have always found giving people solutions to be a tricky thing...usually cause they're just not ready or too narrow minded for anything outside the norm....whatever that is. What works for me is to explain what I have discovered that works for me in respect to a particular issue and leave it at that......don't even suggest they have a look or read "what worked for you". I have always said it's better to ask the person questions and let them answer themselves through your directed questions. "Do you think it could be emotional or stress related?" is a great question to ask to see if they would be open to the TMS theory. If they really want a solution they will 'see' and ask you to share more. Most people are happy with their suffering......so let em suffer I say :-) Secondly, this friend of yours sounds very narrow minded and that's ok, however she and her friends also sound very immature.......not really they kind of people you want around you anyway right? I'd fire her and her friends, life is to short for that crap!
D |
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Capn Spanky
112 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2010 : 11:14:48
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Its’ been frustrating talking to people who could use help. I’m mostly met with silence. I’ve only talked to a few.
It’s hard not to say “What’s the matter with you? This stuff is great! It changed my life!”
There was a time when I would not have been receptive. Unfortunately, there’s so much snake oil and BS in the world. I guess I can only plant a seed and then not get my feelings hurt when people ignore it.
I think Darko’s advice about feeling people out first is a very good idea. It’s unfortunate this has to be such a struggle. I can totally see why Dr Sarno has to pre-screen patients. |
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efyl
6 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2010 : 17:42:58
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Although I grew up in what I would describe as a somewhat "straight and narrow" family where "consult the expert" was the word on any issue that came up, I developed an openness and curiosity that led me to check out different alternative groups, diets, and health practices. I'm not though a personality that gets wrapped up in "worshiping" any one thing. Perhaps I'm too independent and skeptical for that. I tend to feel uncomfortable about any one thing being "The Answer". That said, at the least I can say that when I came across TMS after over two years of suffering multiple, debilitating pains, I knew I had found something important and quickly saw a 50% recovery. I began pretty openly sharing it with friends and family, though with the kind of cautious reserve I've historically shown, "I came across a doctor in New York who has this approach towards healing that really requires some suspension of disbelief--it's kind of weird--but it seems to be helping me". In doing so, I pleasantly discovered some people to be closet "mind and body" enthusiasts who believed in linkages but had only their personal experience to go upon. I did, however, run into a bit of a wall with one old friend. He actually asked me a lot of questions about it, thinking it might be appropriate for his girlfriend. That said, he's a tough-sell skeptic. When he got home, he googled the topic and the only link he looked at was this skeptic's commentary on "The Divided Mind" called "The Deluded Mind":
http://www.skepticnorth.com/2010/03/the-deluded-mind-a-review-of-the-divided-mind/
As there are no alternative views there, he generalized the author's comments and sent me an email that felt judgmental and condescending. It enraged me, literally. I eventually pointed out to him that the skeptic's review was not a double-blind journal published study in itself but merely one person's perspective; and that the skeptic doesn't entirely deny the possibility that "Dr. Sarno might be onto something". I do think it's important to approach things (new and old) with skepticism and to raise questions. It does feel to me like a lot of TMS is just theory. For me though, the proof is in the pudding; and it doesn't really matter what made much of my pain go away. For my friend, he needs more. He needs something to be accepted by the masses or for there to be stacks of scientific books backing up the claims. I openly engage in new topics because I'm curious and history has shown me such action usually is enriching for me. I avoid trying things I know will hurt me (e.g., crack cocaine). As such, the difference between my friend and I illustrates that we're dealing with each person's personal psychology. Sometimes it's surprising the receptivity. Other times it's shocking the resistance. Personally, knowing how much I lost and gave up for my pain, to me it's worth risking relationships to help others--albeit perhaps in the cautious manner some other posts speak of. The societal cost to do nothing is far too great. |
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Big Rob
32 Posts |
Posted - 08/20/2010 : 18:21:02
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If you confront people with TMS they can get defensive because effectively it is pointing out psychological weakness.
Of course the great irony is some people have an irrational fear of having a psychological weakness.
In the case of this woman, if the initial conversation between you was private, then tell HER to go away. What a b***h!!!!! |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 08/20/2010 : 21:27:44
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| I have learned over the years not to talk about it to anyone even when I know they have TMS/MBS as the message will fall on deaf ears. Accept this and move on. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
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I lost an acquaintance due to talking about TMS
