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ghopkins
USA
28 Posts |
 Posted - 02/03/2010 : 22:40:07
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I mentioned to a surgeon at the local hospital that I wished to keep surgery as a last resort being as that was the only option he offered.
When I said I was getting a second and third opinion he asked who the doctors were. I did not think there was any harm in that. When he heard Dr. Sarno, he told me I would probably never get better and that the pain and weakness in my left knee would increase and leave me with a very poor quality of life. This not exactly supporting my struggle to see Sarno, but now I'm more skeptical than ever. Thanks for letting me get that out there. Just finishing reading Sarno's second book, so I will continue until I get approval to meet him.
Thanks,
Greg |
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susan828
USA
291 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2010 : 23:09:10
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You have the right to a second opinion, a third...as many as you want. I'm not sure that it was proper of him to ask you who else you were seeing. Some doctores will ask that in a supportive way and are on your side...and are curious what the other docs will say.
There is a book that I have but not handy, I don't know where it is (I have tons of books)...something like "What Your Doctor Doesn't Tell You About Knee Pain". He talks about the MRIs beng so inaccurate and which surgeries are really justified. Look it up. I am curious, what was diagnosed with your knee? I had knee surgery myself and have had trouble with the other knee so know a lot about all of this.
Most doctors I know think Sarno is not credible. They just aren't open to this. It's a shame. Yet we read that something like 80% of office visits are for something stress induced...so how can they poo poo Sarno? I don't get it. |
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koukla
70 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2010 : 04:19:38
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| Even if you were to go the surgery route, I think you should find a different doctor than this guy. Anyone who questions someone wanting a second, third opinion, etc. should not be trusted. |
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ghopkins
USA
28 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2010 : 17:09:58
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I agree 100%.
quote:
Originally posted by koukla
Even if you were to go the surgery route, I think you should find a different doctor than this guy. Anyone who questions someone wanting a second, third opinion, etc. should not be trusted.
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ghopkins
USA
28 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2010 : 17:20:08
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Hi,
No diagnosis of the knee. The only comments are these.
Local surgeon: "Surgery needed to relieve pressure on nerve. - Funny
CT Scan, X-ray, and MRI all show plenty of room and nerve not pinched.
Dr. Sarno: "Could be TMS causing pain to direct attention from emotions. It's no secret my career and income are in the crapper and with two sons in college, I may have a little stress, tension, anger, frustration, guilt, ...etc. ;o)
The thought of complicated surgery, rehab, loosing my job, no insurance (w/o job) and more pain could also be adding to problem.
You may not understand this, but I can talk myself into getting a cold
because someone across the room has a cold. Pray for my family, they live with a nut-case. :o(
quote:
Originally posted by susan828
You have the right to a second opinion, a third...as many as you want. I'm not sure that it was proper of him to ask you who else you were seeing. Some doctores will ask that in a supportive way and are on your side...and are curious what the other docs will say.
There is a book that I have but not handy, I don't know where it is (I have tons of books)...something like "What Your Doctor Doesn't Tell You About Knee Pain". He talks about the MRIs beng so inaccurate and which surgeries are really justified. Look it up. I am curious, what was diagnosed with your knee? I had knee surgery myself and have had trouble with the other knee so know a lot about all of this.
Most doctors I know think Sarno is not credible. They just aren't open to this. It's a shame. Yet we read that something like 80% of office visits are for something stress induced...so how can they poo poo Sarno? I don't get it.
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guej
115 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2010 : 17:47:15
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I can't believe the doctor is recommending surgery if the MRI and CT scan show plenty of room for the nerve and no nerve impingement. I went to 4, let me repeat, 4 back surgeons because I was so convinced my pain was caused by my spine. I had 2 MRIs, a CT scan and CT mylegram on my lower spine. Every single test showed that while I did have a bulging disc, there was still room for the nerve to exit. Every one of those 4 surgeons told me I was NOT a candidate for surgery. I remember being very upset at the time, but now, in hindsight, they were honest. It was muscular pain (TMS) pure and simple and not caused by spine nerve impingement. At the very least, you should see another back doctor. If another doctor finds no visible nerve impingement, perhaps that will get you closer to being comfortable with the belief that it's muscle tension causing the pain (TMS). What I also find suspicious is that the doctor didn't recommend other methods first. Generally they want you to try physical therapy, and then epidural injections or nerve blocks. Surgery is always viewed as a last resort after other methods have been tried.
While my surgeons were honest in that I didn't need surgery, they didn't offer an alternative diagnosis either. In fact, you basically get "fired" after they determine you don't need surgery and they refer you to a pain management doctor. This is why it really irks me when they poo-poo Dr. Sarno. They can't fix you, they don't know why you're in pain, but they offer no solutions either. It took me months to find my own way to Dr. Sarno where if they were open to that perspective, I could have saved myself time and grief. I wouldn't bother discussing Sarno with most orthopedic doctors. It flies in the face of everything they base their jobs upon. |
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catspine
USA
239 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2010 : 18:18:02
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Greg
Nice to hear you're making progress towards where ever you're going.
The real question for you here seems to be : can my damaged disk handle the recovery from the pain without further damage to my spine? correct?
I imagine it is why you want to see Dr Sarno so he could confirm that it will or it won't independently from the pain issue because as long as you will get conflicting answers about it this doubt will remain and it could impair your recovery.
So maybe you have done it already but if not what you need to determine is what you're ready to accept as an answer to your problem according to what you know now or you'll be vulnerable to what you'll hear from the specialists in question including Sarno and may just get stuck somewhere else down the road with more questions in return.
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ghopkins
USA
28 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2010 : 19:34:24
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Hi,
I think you are correct, but I'm confused regarding your comment on recovery from the pain. My back feels ok. However, my left knee feels like there is an invisible bruise. My skin on the left leg is sensitive to the touch. The leg can bare weight but my fear has caused me to react to the pain. While learning to use crutches I fell 3 times. Each time, I got up, the last one I used the crutch to climb to my feet. Nothing got worse. No back pain. Just a bruised knuckle from bumping the wall. Since the one day I over shoveled the snow and I felt muscle pain in my back, the pain has since been in my left knee like a stiffness or my left thigh like a strange muscle pain. I don't know if thta confirms what you are saying. Thanks.
Greg
quote:
Originally posted by catspine
Greg
Nice to hear you're making progress towards where ever you're going.
The real question for you here seems to be : can my damaged disk handle the recovery from the pain without further damage to my spine? correct?
I imagine it is why you want to see Dr Sarno so he could confirm that it will or it won't independently from the pain issue because as long as you will get conflicting answers about it this doubt will remain and it could impair your recovery.
So maybe you have done it already but if not what you need to determine is what you're ready to accept as an answer to your problem according to what you know now or you'll be vulnerable to what you'll hear from the specialists in question including Sarno and may just get stuck somewhere else down the road with more questions in return.
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catspine
USA
239 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2010 : 20:15:07
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Greg
If you haven't made a decision about being operated yet you can always try the TMS option and work on it accordingly in the mean time and see what comes out of that ,you got nothing to loose there.
Sorry I didn't know your knee was the painful one at this time I thought you had a ruptured disk and were in pain in that area.
Well if you're lucky you may "kill two flies at once" then... |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2010 : 20:24:10
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You need to accept that the vast majority of medical doctors, and especially surgeons, will never accept Dr. Sarno's theory. Why should they? It goes against all of their training, and also threatens their livelihood.
It is simply not realistic to expect a surgeon to endorse your decision to see Dr. Sarno.
I urge you not to be discouraged by your surgeon's predictable response, and find the courage to follow through on your decision. |
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ghopkins
USA
28 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2010 : 22:17:42
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Hi,
My wife and I both agree that surgery is the last resort. Without detailing the used-car tactics the surgeon used in order to scare us into signing up for the risky, lengthy, and not quite justified surgery, I'll just say that man won't get near me with a butter knife.
I can say that I got absolutely no good feelings from this surgeon. I judge medical staff by compassion, honesty, a good sense of humor (bed side manor) and by a willingness to provide options. This capitalist swine failed on all counts. I have a painful condition, but I don't think it is life threatening. I see no reason for this doctor to use scare tactics.
Of course, Dr. Sarno has not, yet, agreed to see me which could indicate a condition beyond his non-surgical approach. Time will tell.
In other words, God wears a Rolex while I own a Timex. God's time is more accurate. LOL
quote:
Originally posted by catspine
Greg
If you haven't made a decision about being operated yet you can always try the TMS option and work on it accordingly in the mean time and see what comes out of that ,you got nothing to loose there.
Sorry I didn't know your knee was the painful one at this time I thought you had a ruptured disk and were in pain in that area.
Well if you're lucky you may "kill two flies at once" then...
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ghopkins
USA
28 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2010 : 22:19:30
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I couldn't agree more. I just want my life back. Thanks. quote:
Originally posted by Dave
You need to accept that the vast majority of medical doctors, and especially surgeons, will never accept Dr. Sarno's theory. Why should they? It goes against all of their training, and also threatens their livelihood.
It is simply not realistic to expect a surgeon to endorse your decision to see Dr. Sarno.
I urge you not to be discouraged by your surgeon's predictable response, and find the courage to follow through on your decision.
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koukla
70 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2010 : 05:40:26
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| I think you are on the right track Greg. It took me a few months from first reading about Sarno to considering it seriously, and then about a month after that to put the principles into practice. It was the physical therapist who said that she couldn't help me anymore and that I should visit a chiropractor that made me think that there wasn't anything wrong with my physically. And I was lucky that I went to see a surgeon who was honest and said he wouldn't even operate on his own wife when she had the same problem. He said that our bodies are supposed to heal on their own and most of the time surgery just complicates everything. (I know most surgeons wouldn't say such things, but then again, I was going through worker's comp and they pay bad rates anyway.) All of those factors added up together in my mind to mean that they really didn't have anything to offer me because there wasn't anything wrong with my arm. |
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skizzik
USA
783 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2010 : 06:53:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave
It is simply not realistic to expect a surgeon to endorse your decision to see Dr. Sarno.
^this^
I don't think that Dr's are just trying to only line thier pockets, but insurance won't cover your visit with a diagnosis of psychosomatic pain. They have to give you a physical label. Anxiety and depression are covered however, even though it's accepted they are psychosomatic.
Funny thing I think however, is that Dr's refuse to use the term psycho anything to a patient, to do so would sound insulting. But you know when they see the chart (you know how you hear them pick it up on the other side of the door before they walk in and read it while your'e sitting on the examination bed) I know they are rolling their eyes when they see a repeat offender thinking "I told them it was just this or that, It's so in their head, if they just did'nt take it so seriously, oh well, just doin my job."
And then they have their predetermined set time that they spend with you. And if you keep complaining about the pain, and being a surgical canidate will get you movin, and he/she can get on to the next patient then you will become one.
Also, in that 20/20 clip, the doc's that thought Sarno was "out there" did admit that he was probably right in 30-40% of the cases. And Sarno's response to that was "How come then, they don't diagnose TMS in 30-40% of their patients?"
Because the secretary can't find TMS code on her insurance billing sheet. |
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Plantweed
USA
109 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2010 : 09:43:11
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| On the money, Skizzik. |
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ghopkins
USA
28 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2010 : 07:51:16
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| I got an appointment to see Dr. Sarno! I will provide more detail under another thread I have open. |
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skizzik
USA
783 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2010 : 11:11:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Plantweed
On the money, Skizzik.
thanx Plant.  |
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ghopkins
USA
28 Posts |
Posted - 02/18/2010 : 19:05:20
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I did get to see Dr. Sarno two days ago. Today I found out my boss terminated me. I am being denied disability because TMS is nor recognized or is considered psychological disorder. It's been a big week. The only good I can see is that I lost a job I hated, working for a company I wouldn't personally do business with. I took the job because I was out of work when a company went bankrupt and I was out of work for two years. I needed benefits. I worked there for 6 years, hating everyday. Maybe God removed me for something better? It is strange that I got angry when I found out I was fired from a job I hate.
I am committed to doing the work Sarno gave me. I will keep you posted. |
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My Surgeon Fired Me
