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basil
52 Posts |
 Posted - 10/31/2009 : 13:16:42
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Hi all
I have not posted for a long time, try to avoid the forums as it usually bring on symptoms unfortunately!
Do need a bit of advice though, so I am back (bit selfish!)
Has anyone had experience with anti depressants (peroxetine for me) Everytime I attempt to stop taking the treatment I get a major relapse in the form of neck & arm pain. I say pain but its more numbness and weak feelings, generally uncomfortable.
Over the last year I have had one small relapse while changing jobs but after being off the tablets for 3 month I have had a major relapse that I am in now. The exact same thing happened last year and I had to go back on the meds.
I have gone off the tracks and the fear has kicked in about permanent damage again. Working on that today.
Wondering if anyone else has experienced this? I hope I am not covering up my mental problems that cause TMS with the meds. I have felt pretty bad for the last month before the relapse so I know I still have lots of repressed/personality traits I have not come to terms with.
1. Obcessive behaviours
2. Perfectionism - Some juniors have joined my team and their artwork is putting mine to shame! Silly mind always beating me up.
3. Self image and esteem.
4. Never happy! Wish I would remember when I am pain free how bad things were. (I think this is a massive problem in my life)
For an update since getting RSI/neck/arm pain and being virtually suicidal I am now working full time in a busy industry at the computer. I have made a lot of progress but damn these relapses are hard!
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la_kevin
USA
351 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2009 : 02:07:49
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I've been on 8 different Anti Depressants in my life. It's been 4 years since I've touched that damn things, best decision ever.
The withdrawals off them are the bodies reaction to Serotonin levels being flooded into synapses and neurological tissue. Serotonin regulates much more than you think. Read exactly what Serotonin regulates, then wonder why someone would tamper with that mechanism.
Anti Depressants (in my opinion only) are only good for dire emergency situations such as suicidal thoughts, loss of a loved one, acute trauma, etc.
I was going to preach but I'll just answer your question.
The withdrawals effect muscle tissue which in a TMS prone person can be confusing. Many of the SSRI's take longer than you thing to get out of your system and slow tapering over MONTHS should be the normal procedure. But Doctors don't regulate the tapering because they hand the crap out like candy.
So me bodies can be prone to hold the compounds in the liver for over a year, and in the bodies fat tissues. I never really felt rid of all SSRIs until after a year.
Along with physical symptoms of withdrawal, there are mental ones. SSRI's are a bandaid to turn you into a proverbial ROBOT. They even stifle the mind natural process for absorbing events and feelings. Sometimes when you come out of the SSRI stupor, you are worse then when you went in.
Now you are aware, or gaining your spatial awareness of LIFE back and TMS is still there.
Obsessive thoughts= precursor and cousin to TMS
Perfectionism= Precursor and trait of a TMS prone class of people, related to obsession, related to control, related to ego, related to self perception.....which all feed TMS
Self Image and esteem= see TMS and Egoic thinking
Never Happy= happy is a state largely influenced by choice and being presnt in life and not listening to the 'noise' your/our 'lower' Neanderthal like brain shouts at us.
You say you're virtually suicidal.
You have a life or death question to ask yourself a few options to think about.
1)Go back to SSRi's and live in a chemical haze for the rest of your life
2) Stop all SSRI's and flirt with suicidal thoughts, the ultimate game ender and danger.
3) Talk to a competent Doctor about how SSRI's work for you, and seek REAL therapy in the form of books, therapists, meditation, self realization, looking deep at the 'what is wrong' in you, letting go of control....and keeping an SSRI as a buffer until you feel strong enough to challenge life SSRI free.
You may have a variation of those options, but 3 is probably the best advice I could give.
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"Life is what happens while you are busy making other plans"- John Lennon |
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basil
52 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2009 : 04:03:36
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Hi Kelvin
Thanks for your input.
Firstly I think I put across the wrong message in my first email.
"You say you're virtually suicidal."
I meant I was with the original onset of my symptoms and that I have come a long way since then. That was 2 years ago.
Unfortunately the only way to get back on my feet back then was the anti D's as what I thought was TMS treatment was making me even worse.
I am very concerned about what you have told me in your reply. I almost feel now that I have got nowhere with my TMS and the tablets have just covered that up. I really cannot go back down that route with the depression and pain as I have too much to lose from what I have built up in the last 2 years of minimal symptoms.
I must admit the GP's I have seen since relocating are completely useless. No interest whatsoever and want me out of there in 1 minute flat. One telling me never to stop taking the tablets, the other refusing to give me anymore which has led to me coming off this time. I did some CBT therapy before which did not help much and with the job I am in now there is no chance for getting time off during the week.
Not sure what to do from here. I have tried the reading and the mental work but never had any real results. Only forgetting and getting back to work had success. But this time I feel different without the meds.
1. Read the books.
2. Tried the Fred Amir stuff.
3. Saw a journey practioner which cost alot.
4. Telling myself I am fine everyday.
Only treatment I could see being helpful now is the pain relief clinic in Huddersfield with Georgie. Not got the money right now though and the journey will be expensive.
I never have acute pain anymore, just constant numbness and weakness switching arms several times a day. My neck feels tender and stiff.
Thought are crepping back in about actual problems due to never getting past my GP for examination. Does anyone know if Georgie at pain relief actually diagnoses you and gives you a full check up? Or is it just the treatment?
Thanks. |
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MatthewNJ
USA
691 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2009 : 11:26:28
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Kevin, One off topic quickie: please email me about the tms success stories live panel. Ferretsx3@comcast.net. I tried the em function here and the FAQS say it doesn't work.
Basil,
I think you have progressed well. Take solace in your successes and keep it up!
I have to agree with Kevin. I have used the SSRI's also. BUT I want to emphasize one of the many great things Kevin said:
"Talk to a competent Doctor about how SSRI's work for you, and seek REAL therapy in the form of books, therapists, meditation, self realization, looking deep at the 'what is wrong' in you, letting go of control....and keeping an SSRI as a buffer until you feel strong enough to challenge life SSRI free."
See BOLD above. Do not stop taking an SSRI "cold turkey".
And I especially agree with meditation. I have spent the last 2 years working with a counselor on mindfulness and being in the moment. I recently went out to Meetup.com (this does work in the UK) and found a local meditation group. I have been there twice so far and it was awesome. Meditation is part of my daily life now.
The difficult we do right away, the impossible just takes a little longer. |
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HilaryN
United Kingdom
879 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2009 : 11:31:37
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Hi basil,
It sounds to me like psychotherapy would be the best thing. It's not a quick fix, but I think it would be best in the long term.
I could be wrong (and it's always worth having a chat with Georgie as she's a very helpful person) but I'm not sure Georgie's program would be appropriate for you - I think it's based on Dr Sarno's program and is for people new to TMS who haven't been able to get better on their own.
I think you're at the next stage. I know CBT is in vogue, but psychodynamic therapy does exist, even on the NHS.
Have a look at this thread:
http://tmswiki.wetpaint.com/thread/2847843/Difference+between+conversion+syndrome+and+TMS%3F
Read the BBC article referred to on there and you'll see that there are people in the NHS treating physical disorders with a psychological cause.
See also my post:
"I spoke to a lady at the Department of Neuropsychiatry mentioned in the bbc article ... I asked her how someone who thought they had a psychosomatic illness could get help on the NHS and she said they would need to ask to be referred to a neuropsychiatrist (perhaps first a neurologist to rule out any organic cause)."
It seems to me this might be a good route for you to follow i.e. get a neurologist to rule out anything structural first, then hopefully get referred for psychotherapy.
I didn't ask for details about what their treatment consisted of.
You might want to give them a ring yourself to ask them about this and for advice on how to get your GP to refer you. (You might need to change GP's if yours isn't sympathetic.)
All the best,
Hilary N
PS You wouldn't necessarily have to go to the hospital in London - they said there are others around the country, so hopefully there would be one close enough to you. |
Edited by - HilaryN on 11/01/2009 11:37:57 |
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yogaluz
USA
81 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2009 : 11:58:45
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Basil, I would agree with much of what Kevin had to say. You can read some of my earlier posts about the nightmare experience I had being put on an antiD and how my doctors encouraged me to stay on it because I was obviously so anxiety-ridden, I needed to be medicated. No one seemed to make the connection that I was having a very adverse reaction to a medication and I was in no condition to judge for myself. In the end, I remained on the antiD for many years. Each time I tried to go off, I had such severe symptoms that I would be drawn back to the medication. Finally after years, literally years of tapering, I went off the medication completely about a year ago and I will NEVER go back on an antiD again.
I believe I am still feeling the effects of this medication in various forms. I've suffered from dizziness, numbness, on and on. I have been thoroughly checked out and I do now believe that there is nothing physically wrong with me but will always wonder what the long-term effects of the SSRI will be. In that sense I can sympathize with your fears about 'permanent damage' but as someone pointed out to me on this site: what if there is permanent damage? Taking more medication isn't going to improve the situation and it's time to deal with the state you are in the best you can using alternative techniques.
Overall, I feel much better without the drug. I am able to access my emotions more easily. Yes, I may feel certain painful emotions more intensely but I say 'halleluja'. I feel human again. What I did notice over this past year was my occasional tendency to think I wouldn't be able to cope without being medicated. Slowly, slowly, I began to get my bearings and I now realize what an emotional, placebo type crutch the antiD was for me. In fact, I'm convinced that this played an even greater role in it's 'effectiveness' than a purely physiological response.
Along those lines, you may want to examine what role the medication is playing in your TMS. Are your symptoms returning because you know you're not taking medication and so you expect them to or has the medication really been helping you on some level? I have a close family member who, after starting SSRI's, began exhibiting all sorts of neuroses (excessive drinking and eating and shopping). My theory is that the medication did mask her symptoms (anxiety) but the underlying emotional issues which just got pushed underground, then surfaced in other, more destructive ways. So yes, my opinion is that these medications numb you out but the foundations of your problems are still there.
I understand your frustration with MDs and I largely stick with naturopaths these days. After my experience of having been put on these powerful medications by a family doc and getting very uninformed advice about what to do when I reacted so badly, it became my policy to deal only with a psychiatrist for my medication (while I was still on it). Once I was under the care of someone who dealt with these meds day in and day out, I got excellent advice and care as I continued to wean off of them. Of course finding a good shrink who isn't just a pill pusher can be a challenge as well. Even thinking back on my experience brings up those old feelings of being so confused and in need of good support and finding none for so long. It's worth it to keep looking (for a good therapist, a knowledgeable, caring doc, etc.). I don't know about pain centers but my guess is there will be a lot of physical therapy and pills thrown at you. I haven't met an MD yet who has read Sarno and who believes that this type of pain can be caused by something other than injury or disease. Just be careful if you step down that path.
I'll close with something I'm going through right now. The other day, my thumb started to hurt really badly and I had numbness up my arm. I couldn't remember straining it so I just watched it with curiosity and slowly, over the course of a couple of days, the pain disappeared. I figured I'd hurt myself and it had healed. Then yesterday about half-way through the day, my other thumb started to hurt! I couldn't even use it. But I had to laugh because it was so obviously a TMS event. It even killed through the night but when I woke up this morning, it was almost back to normal. Look for patterns like these and once your mind is convinced that the pain is nothing more than TMS, it will subside if you believe the TMS theory completely. good luck to you. |
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basil
52 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2009 : 13:22:05
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"Along those lines, you may want to examine what role the medication is playing in your TMS. Are your symptoms returning because you know you're not taking medication and so you expect them to or has the medication really been helping you on some level?"
I suspect that this could be the problem, that I have somehow convinced myself that as soon as I stop taking the meds my pain will return. I need to figure out if I have actually worked on my TMS and managed to get pain free or if the tablets did it all. That doubt is making this relapse hard, thoughts of not being able to get back to normal as I am off meds.
I think I really need to know if I am 100% okay physically to remove all the doubt I have running through my head. Back to the GP and really press them for help. Then begin taking the route that Hilary has pointed out, thanks Hilary yet again :)
I feel damn lost at the moment and scared of losing everything I have built up. As bad as it sounds I am pissed off and feeling sorry for myself that I haven't had the success that other people have had.
Chris |
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basil
52 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2009 : 14:17:34
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Sorry Hilary I totally overlooked your linking thinking it was the same as the one in the mail!
Really interesting stuff and I will follow it up.
I have been a mess today but I determined to get myself sorted. |
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yogaluz
USA
81 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2009 : 07:16:18
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| You have had success. You're just in a trough right now. Remember that you felt much better over the past couple of years and you will again. If the source of your pain was something physical, why would you have been relatively pain free for the past 2 years? If you need to go back on the medication for now to get you through because it enables you to work, do so while you seek out a good therapist. Again, I would urge you to work with a psychiatrist with the medication issue, not a family doc. A neuropsychiatrist, as someone suggested, sounds like a good route to take. It's hard not get discouraged but remember, there are plenty of people on this site whose recoveries were a lengthy process so you are not alone. |
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basil
52 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2009 : 10:12:32
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quote:
Originally posted by yogaluz
You have had success. You're just in a trough right now. Remember that you felt much better over the past couple of years and you will again. If the source of your pain was something physical, why would you have been relatively pain free for the past 2 years? If you need to go back on the medication for now to get you through because it enables you to work, do so while you seek out a good therapist. Again, I would urge you to work with a psychiatrist with the medication issue, not a family doc. A neuropsychiatrist, as someone suggested, sounds like a good route to take. It's hard not get discouraged but remember, there are plenty of people on this site whose recoveries were a lengthy process so you are not alone.
Thankyou Yogaluz
I must of had success. My gremlin is telling me that the meds covered up a physical condition. I am back at my GP tomorrow and I have a list of questions about this subject.
I could not agree more on working with a psychiatrist in the future on my condition and taking of Peroxtine. Although I will need to find the money or get lucky with the NHS!
I am lucky enough to be able to listen or watch whatever at work so I have worked hard on TMS media all day.
Thanks :) |
Edited by - basil on 11/02/2009 10:13:19 |
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basil
52 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2009 : 14:57:12
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Can I just say thanks to the on going support of this forum. I have really worked at it today, mentally. I know a lot of people say positive thoughts are not needed but I think I really need to change my outlook on life before I can continue improve. One day of getting on with normal things and I feel a lot better. Maybe a bit premature, but it helps.
Thanks again. |
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MatthewNJ
USA
691 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2009 : 20:32:51
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Yogaluz,
I see you said "so I just watched it with curiosity and slowly, over the course of a couple of days"
Do you meditate? Use Jon Kabit-Zin's work?
Matthew
Ferretsx3@comcast.net
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The difficult we do right away, the impossible just takes a little longer. |
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basil
52 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2009 : 07:23:42
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Ok, good news for once.
So I am back at work 9 hours a day on the PC with some discomfort. I get my attacks when I am not doing anything, for example watching a film or trying to relax. To be honest I have got to the point since 2007 that its not pain anymore but more like a weird uncomfortable feeling switching from arm to arm throughout the day.
I feel like I am on a roller coaster with the fear and anxiety but I guess that my emotions surfacing.
I have decided to go see Georgie at Huddersfield for a diagnosis and some help on the matter. Trying to stay off the Anti depressants and keep my mind clear to get through this. I think since taking them I just gave up and never solved the core problems with my thought patterns. The pills did that for me and I continued pain free. For now I am trying St Johns wort and my partner has a strict busy schedule to stop me from getting on google and getting into a state!
Seeing a therapist is not something I can do at the moment due to finances and how far I travel to work. My GP does not seem interested in that route and insists on physio.
Should I be insisting on an xray/MRI to exclude any possible problems?
Regardless I am continuing with TMS work as there is not much else I can do! I obviously need to keep working.
basil
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Edited by - basil on 11/04/2009 07:24:56 |
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Relapses and Anti Depressants
