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DiskPain
25 Posts |
 Posted - 01/03/2005 : 05:34:18
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| I just read a post about me being in the middle ground. One foot in the medical community and one in Sarno's world. I am having a difficult time forgetting about my herniation. As soon as I get some relief, I believe Sarno and think how silly this all is. Once I get some pain that seems like it resembles what a herniation should feel like, I go back to believing its physical. I notice many instances of programmed pain and irritation. Every morning I wake up and my pain starts when I brush my teeth and then sit on a chair or start doing things. Even things I enjoy bring on the pain like surfing the web for fun or watching TV. I get even more anxiety when I think of the fact that I will never get to be in good physical shape again because I get pain after a tensing up my back during push ups or curls. I would not fear the pain if it did not last for months at a time. You see, my daily pain is bearable, however every once in a while, I get this horrible spasm that lasts about a month. It is so bad that I cry all day and can't focus on work or anything else. If that never came, I could get over this whole fear. I am learning more about TMS and do have days where I really believe that I am so emotionally messed up, I have to have TMS. Sometimes I wonder if I really only have emotional problems because I am so depressed from having to live in physical pain. I also know that my back was almost perfectly fine this past summer and I did not believe in Sarno at all during that time. That is what is frustrating me. If my pain went away for months without any work at all, why now does focusing on Sarno keep the pain around. I am so confused about all of this. I still think I would benefit if more people told me that they had herniated disks and got better. Not just sore shoulders or knees. Part of me does believe that I may have had this herniation before my so called injury. I am someone who is extremely fearful of injury, death, certain social situations and responsibility. I am starting to believe that my original injury at the gym was intensified only because of how worried I was that I had done permanent damage. |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2005 : 06:52:23
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Not sure what more we can do for you here. Clearly the ball is in your court.
If you can't repudiate the structural explanation then there is no hope for you to get relief from the TMS approach. You are still clinging to the physical. How do you know what a "herniation should feel like?"
You said: "Sometimes I wonder if I really only have emotional problems because I am so depressed from having to live in physical pain." No, this is circular reasoning, the kind that keeps many people in chronic pain forever. The pain is a symptom, the depression is a symptom. The root is your emotions.
Your final comment tells the whole story: "I am starting to believe that my original injury at the gym was intensified only because of how worried I was that I had done permanent damage." Your thinking is so off base. You are still thinking about an injury, about physical causes of your pain.
You are frustrated when the TMS theory doesn't relieve your pain. Well, you haven't made the first step yet. How can you expect it to work? Either you haven't read the book carefully, or you just are unable to grasp the concept. Either way, step 1 is to stop thinking physical, and you're not there. Perhaps you need more time. |
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DiskPain
25 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2005 : 06:56:27
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| I constantly think about all of the things in my life that stress me and about how low my self esteem is. I also tend to realize how all of a sudden I experience horrible anger for no reason. I know I am a very negative person. I am constantly reminding myself of this. I just don't know how to break the fear of causing a recurring spasm. |
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diverlarry
USA
44 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2005 : 08:17:49
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DP
Have you gone to a TMS doctor or have you only seen a regular doctor ? I and im sure many of the other people here have been exactly where you are now. Having a Doctor tell me there was nothing physcially wrong with me(thats after seeing a MRI with a herniated disk) helped me a great deal. When i was told this i still didn't believe it. But after reading DR Sarno's book i did believe it.
I think we expect the pain to go away immediately when we apply the methods. I think this works for very few people. Its takes time and effort. When people have gotten better they have gone through the same thing you have been going through. What you see here is the condenced versions. You don't see the minute/hour/daily struggle people went through. You are not the first person to experience this. There are some great success stories here. To me these these are a valadation that this works. How can you not get excited when you read stories like FarmerEds. I still some fear of hard physcial activity and getting a spasm again. In time this will be gone. I have started to run again and my knee gets sore or the sides of my lower/back butt get sore. I can lift weights and do everything else but when i start to run i get sore. Its just programming. TMS seems to fight me every step of the way. The fear has been the hardest to overcome. Its taken me a long time to get where im at now. It took a long time for the logic to sink in. I was exactly where you were. Reading/journaling/believing takes time. I never did have a "breakthough" or really know what was bothering me.
A lot of things bother me but im not really sure what was in my unconscious. Dave and FarmerED have given great advice. Its up to you to decide what to do. And only you can do this.
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Baseball65
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2005 : 08:46:50
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Hi D-P. (I should start calling you "double-play...I really cringe from your board name!)
I HAVE disc herniations and I am PHYSICALLY pain free....not emotionally.I had an argument with someone close to me this weekend that ALMOST made me wish I had pain again.
During our "rectification" however,my knee started to bother me.I know we talk about a lot of other things,and it may seem like digression,but most of the people on this board came here originally for herniated discs(Oww...I hate even typing the word)
I like following your recovery...this doubting is all part of the deal...I'm certain you will prevail.
peace
Baseball65 |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2005 : 08:51:13
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| I think you may need psychotherapy. It sounds like the pain is just the tip of the iceberg. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2005 : 11:14:54
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Quote from DP:
"I am someone who is extremely fearful of injury, death, certain social situations and responsibility."
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Dear DP,
In your post you devoted about 98% of its content to the physical and about 2%, (the sentence above), to the emotional. I would suggest you devote future posts to 98% mind-emotional stuff about yourself until you start balancing out the scorecard. Your posts are overweighted to the body half of the mindbody equation. This board is about the mind/emotional stuff. I bought my computer and learned how to use it to access this board. I have heard that there are numerous other "injury/disease/back pain" boards where the discussion revolves exclusively around the ANATOMY of pain, (they even delete posts mentioning Sarno-how closed minded). This board distinguishes itself by dealing with the emotional/psychological apects of pain. This is a place to talk about that stuff and maybe get some good advice about handling such situations.
You are not alone in your above stated fears. Apparently they have become so great for you that your subconscious has created an "invisible shield" of TMS psychogenic pain to protect you from having to deal with the issues.
Your board name Disk Pain says it all. "Hello, my name is Disk Pain, how do you do?" I remember my yoga teacher remarking about this once in class. New students would introduce themselves by their injury; "Hi, I'm butt-pain, Namaste."
I must say, you are trying. You keep posting, so something is resonating for you here. Unfortunately, you probably don't have any support back home, only the books and this board. I assume, if you had a TMS doctor near you, you would have seen him by now. It may be worth it to travel to see one to cancel out the very negative dx of the herniatied disc. Maybe you can combine a TMS doctor exam with a vacation. It may be easier to find a TMS friendly psychotherapist. Dr. Scheckter's therapist referal, Dr. Dubin, I believe can consult over the phone.
I feel I know very little about you. I looked at your bio and there's no info about your age, what state you're from or what you do. For a good example of someone on the board who let's it all hang out and deals with the emotional aspects of TMS, look to Baseball65. Use his posts for an example of the kind of stuff to post about.
I think the answers to your concerns about "herniated discs", anomalies, gray hair of the spine and "pain or no pain", are very clearly stated in all of Sarno's books. The bulk of his books deal with that topic. I felt short-changed that he only had one page devoted to hips and arthritis, my TMS area. But, I eventually found it after glossing over it in an instance of TMS induced lack of attention.
As far as the "science" of x-ray diagnosis of the back, I must recount my first x-ray. It was performed by a chiro, who came very highly reccommended by a friend because he was a "kinesiolgist". He took an x-ray and looked concerned at the resuslts. He said it looked like I may have a tumor. I said to myself, "Oh boy, I come here for a sore lower back and now I've got cancer." The chiro says let's take another x-ray. This time he tells me to hold my scrotum to the side. He looks at the new film and says, "Whew, that's good, you don't have a tumor, it was your left testicle."
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Susie
USA
319 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2005 : 13:25:01
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| Hey tt, very good post. You gave me the biggest laugh I've had all year so far. |
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FarmerEd
USA
40 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2005 : 20:52:30
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Hello DiskPain,
I understand your dilema and it is a very difficult place to be. I have a question for you. What if someone could convince you that no matter what exercise or movement you did with your back there was no way you could do permanent damage. At worst all you could do was make your muscles ache from exertion. That no matter how much pain came, it was not doing any physical damage. Would it change your actions?
You see, I read post after post about repudiating the physical as if merely saying there is no physical problem is enough, and it is not. The view of some folks is that when the pain is totally gone THEN they'll start to do some physical activity and not before. I just don't believe it works that way. I think as soon as the pain is bearable you begin to do ACTIONS that repudiate the physical no matter how small they are and you keep doing them till your subconcious gives in, not the conscious mind. It can be anything that you fear to do at present. If your afraid to sit in a soft chair start with that. Tell your mind you know what it is doing and you've had enough. You know there is nothing wrong physically and now your going to act on this belief. Sit in that soft chair and thumb your conscious mind nose at your unconscious. If the pain comes and gets too intense stop and tell your unconscious mind as soon as the pain gets bearable again your coming right back and have another go at it till it gives in. Whether it's 10 min., an hour or a week later you'll be back till it quits because now you know whats going on and you know your doing no physical harm to yourself. When you win that battle you pick another activity, preferably more vigorous and keep building from there. You may have setbacks but you keep going.
We board horses on our farm and a horse bit is a good illustration I think. There is no way that little piece of metal could control that 1000lb horse if it really didn't let it. At any time the horse could put it's head down and take off. What keeps it in control is the conditioning that bit represents. The training and breaking a horse goes through convinces it that that piece of metal is stronger than it so it yields to it. Our unconscious mind has done a good job of conditioning us and holds the bit of fear and permanent back injury over us and has us doing exactly what it wants to keep the emotions it dosen't like repressed. We have to put our heads down a while and fight the bit to learn to uncondition ourselves and repudiate the physical. |
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menvert
Australia
133 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2005 : 04:54:51
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quote:
Originally posted by DiskPain
Even things I enjoy bring on the pain like surfing the web for fun or watching TV.
Reread MBP it specifically mentions that because we are dealing with our unconscious mind.. it does not necessarily logically compute...
MANY things which we consciously think are good & fun unconsciously enrage us...
We are dealing with the unconscious mind, and it's not something we will likely EVER understand. So it's tricky , because we can never quite directly look at our unconscious self, you kind of have to second-guess what it's doing....
It may just be that your unconscious/inner child. Is infuriated at the idea of having fun... somewhere in your past perhaps you learned it was wrong, the possibilities are almost endless..(I know in my past I was taught through unpleasant experiences that I don't want to have fun.... it only leads to people laughing at me[even though logically I know those people only teasing me because they were jealous of me having free and easy fun])
quote:
Sometimes I wonder if I really only have emotional problems because I am so depressed from having to live in physical pain.
One important point, I think about TMS, is that we're not necessarily psychologically 'messed up' any more than every single person in the Western world is. WE ALL have problems of a similar magnitude. Just some of us with TMS personalities are affected a lot more....
quote:
I am someone who is extremely fearful of injury, death, certain social situations and responsibility.
Me too (and I would guess most people on this board to have varying degree have similar issues) but specifically, social situations ...
I have concluded is one of my biggest issues/pressures, for instance, I have learned that when I am in a social situation and I am ready to leave, but feel incapable of asserting my desire to leave... I take something like half an hour to get the courage up to leave/say goodbye.
interestingly enough, I have found that almost without fail in that situation the pain in my forearms will gradually build greater and greater.
Now that I have learnt this, if it happens in the future . I can simply recognise why and then I can rapidly forget about the pain, because I know why. And even better, I learned just to get up and say I'm leaving and be done with it. (Keep in mind, everything is simplistic when typed out for a bulletin board, in reality it can be more complex)
I think in the end, you will find TMS is not about healing physical pain. It becomes a journey of understanding yourself...
and surprise surprise . this requires genuine effort of which you can really only achieve on your own, others can help, but they cannot do it for you. |
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FarmerEd
USA
40 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2005 : 06:41:15
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Hello DiskPain,
I like illustrations, they help me visualize things and clear them up in my mind. With that in mind I'll give you one more.
The way I see TMS is like one of those rope bridges over a gorge. You know the type I mean. The ones that have a board foot path and are always hanging impossibly high over a rocky river below. Now imagine you have crossed that bridge every day all your life and never gave it a thought. Then one day you get out on the bridge and unknown to you someone on the other side who doesn't want you to cross starts violently shaking the bridge. You don't know what's going on and you think something has gone terribly wrong with the bridge and you run back off. You sit there afraid to cross the bridge anymore. Everytimre you try the man on the other side starts to shake it again and you run off. You call out some experts and they examine the bridge and declare it is weak and unstable and ready to fall at any minute. With that information you become even more fearful of testing it.
Then another expert comes along and checks it out and says there is nothing wrong with the bridge at all. It is sound and strong. Nothing short of a tornado could make it fall. The new expert also sees the man hidden on the other side and tells you that is the problem but you just can't see him.
Now you have to make a decision who to believe. If you believe the first experts you just sit there the rest of your life or have someone operate on the bridge to fix it. But if you believe the second expert what do you do? If you keep declaring, "Yes I believe the bridge is sound" but never try to cross it will you ever get anywhere? Of course not. Sooner or later you have to prove by your actions you believe the bridge is sound. You have to get out there on it.
Now what do you suppose the unseen man on the other side is going to do when he sees you back out on the bridge? He's going to start shaking it again to run you off. The only way to get over the fear is to stay out on the bridge and hang on till the shaking stops then keep moving forward. He may try a lot of times to run you back and even shake it more violent then before but if your confidence in the bridge remains firm you keep holding on till he tires of shaking it and KEEP MOVING FORWARD. If you start to think that maybe the problem IS with the bridge being weak you will run back off and your right back where you started.
Good Luck |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2005 : 11:15:57
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Excellent posts FarmerEd and Menvert! I see we're making some progress. DiskPain has made a name change - he is now TMSPain, a more accurate discription.
Leafing through my MBP last night, I came across the profile of the TMS personality. We are perfectonists, we take things litreally, we are passionate. The problem is we live in a culture that is devovling and embracing mediocrity. This enrages us because we have high standards. I live in NorCAl, the vortex of the mediocrity devolution. The State of Entitlement, everyone DESERVES a BMW from birth, no entry level jobs below VP, surf's up gotta cash my SSI check and buy some board wax.
Having been raised with some basic values and work ethic, and trying to run a business in this crazy enviornment, is constantly enraging and keeps my TMS reservoir up there. Along with whatever might have been imprinted in my psyche, having been born to parents fleeing post Holocaust Europe, (and I don't want to know).
If we TMS personalities were either super-rich or homeless, we could behave as we please and say what we want. But, we're stuck in the system and have to behave ourselves or be ostracized socially. We cannot express our passions without fear of being hammered down by those around us who have had their mindbodies snatched and are married to THE SYSTEM.
So out here on the LeftCoast, I've accepted that I can't change the decline of civilization - but maybe I can change ME through TMS thinking and enjoy the positive things of which there are many (if you can find a parking space). I'll sit on the beach and observe the human comedy unfold. Someday the house of cards will topple - what goes up must come down. Be ready to pick up the pieces, buy low, sell high, maybe time to take a bite out of Krispy Kreme. |
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Albert
USA
210 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2005 : 11:54:12
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I don't know if geography has a lot to do with it. I live in what you refer to as the "leftcoast" and don't mind, because I'm quite liberal minded. Nevertheless, I seem to have TMS. I'm new to this, but my guess is that a TMS person would get annoyed no matter where he or she lived.
quote:
Originally posted by tennis tom
I live in NorCAl, the vortex of the mediocrity devolution. The State of Entitlement, everyone DESERVES a BMW from birth, no entry level jobs below VP, surf's up gotta cash my SSI check and buy some board wax.
Having been raised with some basic values and work ethic, and trying to run a business in this crazy enviornment, is constantly enraging and keeps my TMS reservoir up there. Along with whatever might have been imprinted in my psyche, having been born to parents fleeing post Holocaust Europe, (and I don't want to know).
If we TMS personalities were either super-rich or homeless, we could behave as we please and say what we want. But, we're stuck in the system and have to behave ourselves or be ostracized socially. We cannot express our passions without fear of being hammered down by those around us who have had their mindbodies snatched and are married to THE SYSTEM.
So out here on the LeftCoast, I've accepted that I can't change the decline of civilization - but maybe I can change ME through TMS thinking and enjoy the positive things of which there are many (if you can find a parking space). I'll sit on the beach and observe the human comedy unfold. Someday the house of cards will topple - what goes up must come down. Be ready to pick up the pieces, buy low, sell high, maybe time to take a bite out of Krispy Kreme.
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2005 : 12:01:40
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| That's quite possible Albert. |
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Crossroads
