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mcone
114 Posts |
 Posted - 11/25/2008 : 23:41:31
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*The working theory
---Miserable in Minnesota:
I've been so *desperately* miserable living in Minnesota. My life "concept" - to start a family won't happen in Minnesota - I cannot allow myself to put down roots, expand my network, date, participate in social events with a full heart, be totally "present" etc. It just doesn't feel "real" to me - and it never really has felt "real". NYC feels "real" - like it's the real world for me. So I have to move back to NYC.
---My main "TMS" RSI symptom:
My F'ing wrist hurts like a M'er F'er all the F'ing time. (sorry for the language). Ok, I'm probably exaggerating, but not that much.
---When it came on:
I was at the peak of my professional life, I had a really good position with a top company - ready to finally "advance" my life to the next "phase" (relationships, starting a family, etc.) and then my wrist gets F'ed up.
---Are these all related?
Did my wrist get F'ed up because of the "feelings" aroused by my career success and what it meant?
Increased pressure to advance to the next phase of life?
Regret over not have taken action sooner (I'm 44 now)?
Conflict over staying in MN or returning to NYC (where I likely struggled with lots of childood and young adult trauma?
---So if they are related, then now what?
Well, if I think TMS, then I HAVE to move back to NYC...
But this is a classic catch 22:
In this condition, I can't move to NYC (one of the most expensive states in the country) on a meager disability income because I can't work professionally- because my wrist is messed up...
...But perhaps my wrist is messed up because I'm desperately miserable living in Minnesota. Classic catch 22.
So do I go for it and just do it?
If I move, perhaps my rage/soothe ratio change enough to improve my wrist? Do I take this risk? Do I try to relocate despite all the difficult obstacles and risks I'm facing?
DOUBT AND DESPAIR [Don't read this if you want to avoid negativity]
And then there is the DOUBT. What if my wrist really is F'ed in a way that TMS will never, ever, ever improve. Then I'm just using TMS as a form of denial. Denial that I will have this disability for the rest of my life... Denial of the rage that I will lose much of the benefit of all my years of schooling, graduate degree, years of experience, etc.).
OK, I admit that was REALLY NEGATIVE thinking.
A better exercise to work on:
"What would my life be like if I were totally pain free? How would that feel? What would I do with my life?" |
Edited by - mcone on 11/25/2008 23:52:44 |
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stanfr
USA
268 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2008 : 07:44:37
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| I say go for it. At least make major plans to move, i suspect if you do your subconcious will recognize how serious you are about relocating, and the symptoms will react in some way, and when they do you can seize on that to strengthen your belief in the TMS diagnosis. |
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pandamonium
United Kingdom
202 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2008 : 08:16:42
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I agree with stanfr, I'd go for it.
Life is too short to live somewhere you don't like or you just don't feel you belong.
quote:
I cannot allow myself to put down roots, expand my network, date, participate in social events with a full heart, be totally "present" etc.
I think this is key, did your TMS start after the move to Minnesota? |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2008 : 08:50:02
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You're still thinking wayyyyy too hard about all this. I can't believe that after being away for several months I come back for a visit and still find you writing your posts in Essay Outline form!
Start looking for a job in NYC. Take actions based on what you want and need. Don't let your wrist be a factor in running your life. Right now, it still is. As long as you let it, it will be. When you stop letting it, it will stop.
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What were you expecting? |
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mcone
114 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2008 : 10:46:48
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quote:
Originally posted by stanfr
I say go for it. At least make major plans to move, * * *
quote:
Originally posted by pandamonium
I agree with stanfr, I'd go for it.
Thanks for the input.
I've been engaged in cleaning out my apartment and selling off lots of my stuff for some months now - I sent a notice to vacate to my landlord in Minnesota, giving the required 60 day notice... (although I had done this once before and didn't follow through...)
quote:
Originally posted by pandamonium
I think this is key, did your TMS start after the move to Minnesota?
Not really, I've been in MN since 1992 while serious symptoms started about 2 years ago.
But symptoms were precipitated by a higher level of job success (and also job conflict and stress)...
AND especially an *increasing realization that I was still living in Minnesota* at this juncture - (I always felt inside that I needed to return to NYC) and that I had not made progress in other areas of my life for some years ---
The "still living in MN after all these years" theme definitely coincided with onset of problems. |
Edited by - mcone on 11/26/2008 11:22:14 |
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mcone
114 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2008 : 11:04:45
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quote:
Originally posted by armchairlinguist
Start looking for a job in NYC. Take actions based on what you want and need. Don't let your wrist be a factor in running your life. Right now, it still is. As long as you let it, it will be. When you stop letting it, it will stop.
Hello ACL.
Just moving (the physical logistics), let alone getting the finances to work, let alone finding a job seems daunting beyond belief to me.
This is because simple, day to day things trigger symptoms.
*On the surface at least - it *seems* like I'm NOT letting my wrist run my life. Yet recent activities of getting my apartment organized, and getting stuff listed and sold on ebay for example (all that handling, sorting, boxing, packing, and especially working on the computer) preceded bad, bad symptoms.
This was very discouraging...I associated the flareup with the escelation of physical activity...
Yet if I think in TMS terms, it's as if my subconscious is trying to *subvert* me from relocating - almost literally disabling me from doing so at every opportunity. This makes no sense unless I really don't want to leave MN - or unless I really don't want to be in NYC (or fear something about NYC - like my family) for some reason.
I can think of all kinds of reasons like this, and there is much truth to my being anxious and fearful about relocating to the unknown... Yet, on some level, these all seem like contrived explanations to fit the theory...
BUT I STILL PLAN ON CONTINUING TO MOVE FORWARD. AND I DO STILL FREQUENTLY REMIND MYSELF THAT IT IS POSSIBLE THAT SOMETHING IN MY MIND/BRAIN WILL EVENTUALLY YIELD.
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Edited by - mcone on 11/26/2008 11:08:00 |
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HilaryN
United Kingdom
879 Posts |
Posted - 11/27/2008 : 01:22:54
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quote:
---When it came on:
I was at the peak of my professional life, I had a really good position with a top company - ready to finally "advance" my life to the next "phase" (relationships, starting a family, etc.) and then my wrist gets F'ed up.
Have you read Dr Dave Clarke's book, "They can't find anything wrong"? He says a lot of his patients start suffering just as everything seems to be going right. It's a very enjoyable book, hardly any jargon in there (I think there was only one term I didn't understand) and very easy to read for lay people such as myself. There's a thread here:
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4091
All the best with it all, I think you're very brave. I love NYC too - such a buzz to it.
Hilary N |
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HilaryN
United Kingdom
879 Posts |
Posted - 11/27/2008 : 01:27:21
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quote:
A better exercise to work on:
"What would my life be like if I were totally pain free? How would that feel? What would I do with my life?"
You might find this thread interesting:
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5056
Hilary N |
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mcone
114 Posts |
Posted - 11/27/2008 : 23:57:09
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Thanks for thoughtful links and for all the encouragement Hillary N. I started skimming and will read through this material more carefully - and track down Mr. Clarke's book. (I have not found consults with Dr. Rashbaum especially valuable - I've posted a bit more about that tonight after reflecting)
You used the term "brave" in a complimentary way.
It's like I'm on all out assault to create the life I really want to live - and I've been using guerilla tactics against TMS - like plowing through extended physical preparations, and driving and travelling great distances from home despite the symptoms.
Yet, I still wrestle with whether what I'm trying to do is the "right" thing.
And I DON'T mean "right" in terms of accommodating external values that are imposed upon us (i.e., the goodism, perfectionism, etc.)
but "right" in terms of being in harmony with my emotional core needs and desires.
I'm quite "out of harmony" with the world right now - disoriented in a way...like my place in the world of work, my relationships with family and friends, the geographical space I call home, etc... It all seems in disarray...
And on one level - on a rational level (one might say superficial level or an intellectualized level) I can explain ALL my problems in terms of the pain in my wrist.
If my wrist were not in pain I could...
find work
have structure in my life again
expand my social network
enjoy my hobbies again
learn to use and iPhone
cultivate a better sense of self and identity
date
enjoy going out and spending time with people
stop being bitter and angry at everyone and everything
enjoy athletic activities again
cook again
consider having a family
etc.
etc.
etc.
And yet on another level a deeper, genuinely honest with myself level, I feel tremendous insecurities about living a normal life and especially taking responsibility for a family...
[hmmm....interestingly enough Mr. Clarke mentions this:
"Our biggest difference is that I try to dig deeper to find the hidden sources of stress-related illness, particularly in people who experienced difficulties as children. These are people who would not want an innocent child to experience what they did growing up."
Does this shoe fit? Sometimes I speculate that my symptoms excuse me from the responsibility (pressure?) of starting a family when I feel (somewhere in my core) that I'm just "not good enough" (feelings of inadequacy). And so far, I've had limited success using "cognitive" techniques to overcome this.
At other times, I think that I just couldn't possibly bear the thought of recycling any of my childhood pain onto my children...and yet I can't come to terms with the notion of my never having children...perhaps something like this demands a powerful defense mechanism...
I'm really just speculating here...but I do "feel" greatly discouraged about my prospects of being a successful parent (for any number of reasons - many of which are not rationally sound) AND at the same time, I refuse to come to terms with the notion that I will not be a parent - it IS something that I really do want.
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Dor
67 Posts |
Posted - 11/28/2008 : 05:21:11
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Most people worry about what kind of parent they will be, or at least think about it. Have you given thought to the fact that given all you have been through that it will make you a better parent? You have suffered childhood pain, recognize it, are dealing with it, and that surely would make you into a parent who is wise, caring, and loving. Secondly, troubles in our lives should give us empathy. If we sieze it that is one of life's struggles greatest gifts. A child needs empathy (understanding) growing up and you will have that. Instead of seeing it in a negative vein try seeing it in a more positive one. Remind yourself, not of the past, but of all you are learning and all you will be able to pass on to a child. Sadly, there are children born into this world every day who do far, far worse. The very fact that you are giving it so much thought and concern shows that you would not enter into it lightly, but rather take it seriously and with compassion. Pat yourself on the back for that instead of beating yourself up. And choose your partner wisely for a child deserves to enter this world with two loving people by his side.
As for the rest of it - make those leaps. You will not be sorry. Feel the pain and do it anyway. You have quite a list of things you would like to do if not for the pain. Do them anyway! If the pain is there, so what? It is there now right? It isn't going to kill you. Pick one and do it. Cook that meal, do that hobby, play that sport. Take your life back. Think you will find that it won't hurt as bad as you think because your mind will shift to what you are doing. Take that step, make that leap. Where is it getting you by not???
Dor |
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mcone
114 Posts |
Posted - 11/28/2008 : 10:28:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Dor Have you given thought to the fact that given all you have been through that it will make you a better parent?
* * *
You have suffered childhood pain, recognize it, are dealing with it, and that surely would make you into a parent who is wise, caring, and loving.
* * *
Remind yourself, not of the past, but of all you are learning and all you will be able to pass on to a child.
* * *
Pat yourself on the back for that instead of beating yourself up.
Kind words and good insights. Yes. I believe that my emotional interactions with children are very positive, and that I have the capacity to provide guidance, direction, balance of discipline w/ autonomy, etc. in a healthy way. I think I would be good with children...perhaps markedly different than my own parents.
quote:
And choose your partner wisely for a child deserves to enter this world with two loving people by his side.
Yes, totally. A strong, secure, committed relationship is key.
quote:
Think you will find that it won't hurt as bad as you think because your mind will shift to what you are doing. Take that step, make that leap. Where is it getting you by not???
This is a challenge. Repeatedly, I apply my resolve to LIVE, plan events with friends, etc. In many situations, I ultimately find that I enjoy being around people, that it was worthwhile for me to participate etc. And I can even recall times when symptoms weren't triggered much by physical activities.
Yet, in many physical-intensive situations, like getting my apartment cleaned for entertaining, I flare-up and I'm literally brought to tears in pain - struggling to finish vaccuming, or clean dishes.
And I was using the computer and my digital camera heavily to sell things on ebay in recent weeks...and I had a very distressing flare-up that went on for days...and still hasn't resolved. In the last three weeks or so, I've been in pain nearly all the time (often severe), except when I'm almost completely at rest.
These experiences are very damaging to my level of belief. In the last few days, the best I've been able to do is to repeatedly remind myself that, with all the compelling information out there, mindbody may still be the right answer - and that there may very well be mindbody-consistent explanations for these flare-ups (i.e., emotional reasons, and/or fear conditioning-autonomic reactions) And I "do the work" to the best of my ability.
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mcone
114 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2010 : 10:30:16
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One year+ later...
I DID IT.
I FINALLY LEFT MINNESOTA THIS PAST AUGUST.
I'M NOW LIVING IN A NYC METRO AREA
HIGHTLIGHTS OF 2009: VOLATILITY...
**Transient / Unstable living situations for 10 months - one after another - (Moved 3 times within Minnesota before actually moving to NJ; then another move within NJ after my roomshare was infested with cat fleas (roommates un-maintained cats);
**Very Stressful Financial pressures - Disability insurer constantly threating to terminate disability beneifts, endless struggles getting cooperation from health care providers;
**Family Alienation - Immediate family doesn't get what is going on (although I have an uncle that has been supportive). I intentionally moved to New Jersey (instead of settling in Brooklyn near my family);
**Countless severe pain / TMS episodes, including a recent bout of severe chest pain that lasted over a month, and is just now starting to let up;
AND NOW IN 2010 -
Despite all this, I WENT BACK TO WORK!
Just over a month ago, I started a temporary assignment with my old company to help out with end of year projects.
I've been working from home - on an intermittent basis
Even with the flexibility and limited work, it's been challenging - but I've been managing so far.
Hopefully, will be able to complete this assignment - probably only another week or two.
AND WHAT NEXT? PRACTICAL CONCERNS
Wrist pain is very significant and is presently inhibiting my ability to work confidently.
And it's inhibiting me from searching for a new assignment (which I must do)
At the same time, my private disability benefits ended when I started this assignment
(and it's a step backwards to try and go back on disability again - and I HATE dealing with disability insurance)
TMS TMS TMS
Is TMS STILL responsible for my symptoms?
Maybe. Even if I completely disregard the perceived health obstacles - like my wrist (not easy to do), I STILL find myself:
**Struggling with a very deep-rooted sense of insecurity;
**Feeling I don't have the ability / competence to move to the "next phase" of my life (intimate relationships, family);
**Feeling like I'm too old to do these things now (at 45);
**Feeling despondent over lost time, and lost opportunity;
**Feeling very full of resentment and bitterness (rage): (1) Especially towards family members / parents that I perceive as having been neglectful / abusive / incompetent; (2) To a lesser extent, towards others that I perceive let me down more recently; and (3) In a general way, rage towards the "fates".
[And if I don't disregard the health issues, I find myself entertaining some very specific morbid and pervasive notions about my health]
DIRECTIONS?
So, I'm struggling with any number of possible directions right now, including...
**spend money I don't have and can't afford on one of Dr. Sarno's TMS therapists;
**Get a referral from one of Dr. Sarno's TMS therapists to an affordable psychodynamic therapist;
**Go to the sports club and hit a punching bag (recommendation of shrink I just starting seeing recently, weekly and to whom I just introduced the TMS concept);
**Try to find an EMDR therapist to shed past Trauma (as per suggestion from my last trusted shrink);
**crack down and get disciplined with journaling about the rage;
**crack down and get disciplined with journaling about the rage (past) and insecurities about moving forward (future);
**crack down and get disciplined with journaling about the rage and insecurities - but also start working on more positive thinking and especially forgiveness towards my sources of rage (which is supposed to heal as per Fred Luskin);
*Try some kind of self-hypnosis program to overcome fear conditioning;
*Finding a doctor that might be able to address and allay my most morbid health concerns;
*Installing voice recognition or finding an administrative assistant
(I've been avoiding these, as I don't see either as entirely practical. And I don't see either of these measure as being a truly effective solution; And I feel these things are at odds with TMS goals;
Any suggestions or encouragment greatly appreciated!
Thanks,
Mcone
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Edited by - mcone on 03/17/2010 17:58:46 |
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catspine
USA
239 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2010 : 13:32:52
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Mcone
After reading the whole topic part 2 something essential about TMS in regard or Dr Sarno's theory seems like it went by unnoticed:
The repressed emotions are unknown! what the rage in the unconscious is about is unknown for example it could be something totally irrational and unrelated to you desires or struggles and in most cases it is not necessary to know what the cause of the rage is to stop the pain.(at least it was true every time in my own experience even with extremely severe pain).
If this concept doesn't work for you well with only temporary relief then in the worst case scenario it exposes you to the possibility of a relapse with displacement of the symptoms or not in which case after a while you'll know for sure it was TMS and can act upon it accordingly.
So therefore you may be working endlessly on what you think the cause is and not getting the benefits of your hard work except for the decisions you made about your life which were conscious and necessary choices anyway but ineffective against your pain or even counterproductive due to new stress accumulation.
From a distance expectations seem to play an enormous part in your distress and your wrists as an essential link to materialize these expectation somehow can hardly keep up with them . Now lets say you attach your hands behind you back for a while (physically or mentally) this would force you to accomplish your dreams and everything else you do in a different way which many people exposed to severe handicaps have managed to do for ages.
My point here is that TMS often strikes where your ability to carry on with your expectations is the greatest in which case it would have to move to a different spot if you can't use them as usual in other words the brain would have to re-route its strategy do get things done therefore revealing the real nature of the problem (TMS or not TMS? because you seem to have doubt about this throughout your posts). One thing is certain with TMS the more you doubt the more severe the symptoms get.
I know that life in NY is very challenging by nature, it is also what makes it attractive to many people and if you are one of them you must be careful about that the aggressive and competitive way to address life there doesn't rule your approach to solve your wrists problem. Without giving in to the TMS strategy of the brain the body still needs rest and care to overcome the trauma either physical or mental.
Hope this helps somehow.
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HellNY
130 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2010 : 07:19:02
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My honest opinion is that the probability of your recovery is inversely proportional to the amount of mental focus you have on the pain, and on the problems the pain is causing.
When I read your posts I see these enormously detailed, almost obsessive, discourses on the pain syndrome and how it is affecting your life and what to do about it. IN short, your posts indicate that you are extremely, extremely preoccupied with the pain. In my view --- that is a major part of the problem which, until it changes, it wont matter where you relocate. |
Edited by - HellNY on 01/23/2010 07:20:05 |
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yogaluz
USA
81 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2010 : 10:21:13
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| I agree with HNY and would also add that you seem to want to take all your issues on at once. Pick your most immediate concern, which from the outside looking in, seems to be your ability to support yourself. I don't mean to be unsympathetic, but people who lose limbs continue to work. Sounds like you have good work experience and graduate level training - get innovative. If your work requires a great deal of computer work, look for a means to operate within your limits (typing with your good hand or hiring a part-time typist to help you with big projects) or look to technology to help you (voice controlled systems). My guess is that once you get yourself off disability, you'll feel empowered and can start tackling the other issues you're concerned about. When your pain ceases to control your ability to work, there is a good chance it will disappear or at the very least, lessen. |
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catspine
USA
239 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2010 : 13:09:44
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Yep! I agree with both of them too. You were just offered a nice short cut to recovery...
Now how to overcome the preoccupation with the pain is the difficult part once you get to that point because in our culture we tend to think in a Cartesian way about our physical problems e.g. there must be a physical cause for our pain and a method to cure it accordingly... Isn't it amazing how the first thing we think about when something hurts is a "technically medical" reason.
Consequently it is also generates the doubt in the mind which allows TMS to thrives and last or come back.
This is why it is important to eliminate this possibility first. It clears up the clutter in our thoughts and removes the doubt in our mind about where the pain really comes from.
As it says in many of the books go see your doctor first to rule out any serious illness. The faster the better!
Now that hopefully your mind will not be busy focusing on the pain you 'll be able to use the time available to build the solid foundations of your new pain free life in NY. Be patient you're on you way to getting there.
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HellNY
130 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2010 : 16:55:24
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quote:
Originally posted by catspine
Yep! I agree with both of them too. You were just offered a nice short cut to recovery...
Now how to overcome the preoccupation with the pain is the difficult part once you get to that point because in our culture we tend to think in a Cartesian way about our physical problems e.g. there must be a physical cause for our pain and a method to cure it accordingly... Isn't it amazing how the first thing we think about when something hurts is a "technically medical" reason.
Consequently it is also generates the doubt in the mind which allows TMS to thrives and last or come back.
This is why it is important to eliminate this possibility first. It clears up the clutter in our thoughts and removes the doubt in our mind about where the pain really comes from.
As it says in many of the books go see your doctor first to rule out any serious illness. The faster the better!
Now that hopefully your mind will not be busy focusing on the pain you 'll be able to use the time available to build the solid foundations of your new pain free life in NY. Be patient you're on you way to getting there.
I note with interest your comment on the "Cartesian Way" we look at pain in our society. I never thought to put it that way but I think I understand and agree completely.
Our culture has become extremely medicalized and pathologized. Every pain an injury, every ache a ppossible ill, every heartburn a threatening ulcer. Im reminded of teh commercial that says "my Dr. told me that certain medications could be damaging my stomach even if I dont knwo its happening!" Or, another one "Osteoporosis is REAL. If you aare over XXX age, then YOU are at potentially SERIOUS risk for osteoporosis, which could entail fractures, broken bones, etc etc"
In short, we are obsessed as a culture with our own mortality and our own possibel diseases. This just reinforces teh TMS-prone mind, to a level of what I essentially call "pain OCD."
I liek to tell people:
The Schizophrenic hears phantom voices.
The tinnitus patient hears phantom ringing.
The addicted feel phantom bugs on their skin.
The TMS feels phantom pain.
Oh, it REAL. But its a phantom. |
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catspine
USA
239 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2010 : 23:48:06
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Hellny
I like your: Oh it's real! But it's a phantom. Thanks
I always welcome a sense of humor as TMS tends to make us obsessed and way too serious sometimes which is an other cultural thing... A good laugh can release a lot of tension.
I had no clue I was going to get a comment on the 'cartesian way' when I wrote that but then while we are at it with mathematicians I came up with this bizarre idea as I wrote this : What about using maths to diagnose symptom imperatives of TMS? we are often looking for something we don't know there and maybe math can solve such a problem.
I'm still trying to figure out if some of my symptoms which are confusing can be TMS or not but I'm getting there one step at a time in the conventional way.
Since symptoms imperatives of TMS can be hard to diagnose otherwise then by elimination when the cost of professional help is an issue I have been looking for a method that could fit anyone's needs and that would be easy to use and as accurate as possible but haven't found such a thing yet.
So here is the idea : like the theoretical astrophysicists who can find planets they can not even see in far away galaxies could an equation be used to find the 'common denominator' of the symptoms that puzzle the doctors or that do not add up as a known physical medical condition?.
In other words we need a program to calculate the probabilities... Sometimes the symptoms are common to known illnesses but do not exactly match and do not make sense until it is identified as TMS by a process of elimination but it may take a long time, a lot of money if you can afford it and a lot of pain and frustration. So I was just wondering if there would be a possibility to use a well known logical system to find out.
This is as cartesian an approach as it can get but now that we have it available we might as well use it and make the best of it ...
Of course this is pure science fiction and on top of it all I'm really ignorant when it comes to mathematics or physics so if anyone with these skills see a possibility in there please let us know after all we got nothing to loose.
I hope this idea does not offend anyone.
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skizzik
USA
783 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2010 : 14:45:07
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quote:
Originally posted by HellNY
My honest opinion is that the probability of your recovery is inversely proportional to the amount of mental focus you have on the pain, and on the problems the pain is causing.
Bada bing,
quote:
Originally posted by HellNY
When I read your posts I see these enormously detailed, almost obsessive, discourses on the pain syndrome and how it is affecting your life and what to do about it. IN short, your posts indicate that you are extremely, extremely preoccupied with the pain. In my view --- that is a major part of the problem which, until it changes, it wont matter where you relocate.
Bada Boom! |
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Extreme Measures, Part 2: Moving and Starting Over
