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marytabby
USA
545 Posts |
 Posted - 08/11/2008 : 08:51:54
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Just wanted to share an observation...
It's amazing to me how many people have "plantar fasciatis", the new "en vogue" diagnosis for bottom foot pain. There are 6+ people I know of (probably more if I think hard) who all sit at desk jobs all day with no "overuse" of the feet. No one stands on their feet all day to account for all this phantom foot pain, yet the PF diagnosis is spreading like wildfire through doctor's offices everywhere. These folks are being sent home with uncomfortable braces to wear to bed at night and orthotics to wear in their shoes during the day, and none of these remedies are working (gee, wonder why...) They're also being told they can't use a treadmill, elliptical, etc. so now they're not exercising either. Just sharing how this en vogue symptom has become so accepted in the mainstream orthopedic/internal medicine community, yet none of these doctors can explain why these folks have this "disorder" and why they're not improving with all the implements they're wearing. Sigh... |
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penguins
39 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2008 : 12:19:02
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Oh how I want my pf to be TMS. Mine started amidst major stress in my life, but also while I was way over exercising (part of my problem). Because of such absuse to my body it's been VERY difficult for me to believe there is really nothing wrong (despite 2 MRI's showing minor stuff).
I did become virtually pain free from my "herniated disc" by studying Sarno's works and so want the pf to be the same thing. However, it's taking a long time. Some days I think I'm making headway. When my feet recently started getting numbness, tingling and burning I got excited briefly thinking it was TMS getting worse in the feet since the back/neck got better. Then that nagging part of my brain took over yet again and has kept the dialouge going that I have to be careful, of course the pf is from the hours and hours of step aerobics, jumping, etc. and not a manifestation of TMS. I am so tired of foot pain. It'll be 2 years in November. I've done all types of therpaies/modalities for it known to man except complete and total rest. That's the one thing I've never been able to acutally do. So, the pain lingers because part of me believes it's structural and I haven't done the "obvious" -- rest. I do have a part of me that then yells back and says, "Well then why isn't the pain consistent and why hasn't it totally debilitated you?" UUUGGHHH!!!!
I know I have work to do. I'm back to re-reading Sarno again. I'm in therapy. I've had some good things occur from reading The Power of Now and Louise Hay's book. I just can't seem to lick the feet issues yet. I scour these boards and keep re-reading pf threads hoping I'll find one that will finally convince me that this is TMS related. I know I must be holding ont the pain for a reason. It's been with me and consumed me for so long now that it's a part of my identity. I need to break free from it.
Ahhh, that felt good. Thanks for posting and letting me vent. I do agree that pf seems rampant these days!
--Jennifer |
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ChrisSC
25 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2008 : 21:03:18
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Penguins,
I think the post you are looking for on the forum to convince you might be the one you just wrote. Things you mentioned that add support to the possibility of it being TMS:
1. Started during a stressful time period
2. Exercise served as the "trigger" for the brain to trick you into believing its physical
3. 2 MRI's showing ~minor~ stuff
4. History of TMS (back pain)
5. Symptom substitution: new symptom arises when old symptom is solved
6. You've suffered for two years, yet you say the pain is incosistent and you haven't been totally debilitated
7. You obsessively search the forum (a very TMS thing to do!)
8. You feel it is part of your identity--sounds like its DISTRACTING you!
9. Other treatment methods have failed
10. PF is, as the original poster says, in vogue
There's ten things I found in your post, and I don't believe I twisted your words to try to fit into something TMS-related at all. Individually, these things might not point to TMS... but all ten together sure do. That you are still thinking it ~could~ be physical and have tried "all types of therapies known to man" might be what is preventing the TMS approach from working.
It is good that you are re-reading Sarno. I think if you really look at your post and think about things you might not have written in your post but know personally, you will see that TMS is the most likely situation. Even if you don't believe 100% that it is TMS, act as though you do for a while. You beat the back pain, you can beat the foot pain! |
Edited by - ChrisSC on 08/11/2008 21:09:32 |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2008 : 08:27:19
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I had a friend who was diagnosed with PF -- during med school and the aftermath of a parental divorce. I didn't talk to her about it, but I suspect TMS in her case.
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What were you expecting? |
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marytabby
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2008 : 10:57:23
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Well Sarno mentions PF in his books as being harmless TMS.
I have to believe this because of the 6 or so people I know who have it, none of them did anything to "bring it on" and they're not getting better despite all the orthotic remedies. |
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penguins
39 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2008 : 16:19:37
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Chris: Thank you so much for taking the time to analyze my post and make that list! It all points to TMS. I see it when I look at it. So far though I've been unable to fully accept it or at least ignore it enough to allow the distraction to stop. I'm trying. I've got Marc Sopher's book on the way since I know he beat foot pain. I've been reading the psychology chapters in Sarno's books again. I want to end the pain (at least some part of me does).
I really do thank you. I will print this out and keep reading it. If and when I beat this thing, I'll certainly post and let you know. Thanks so much!
Oh and I forgot to add something that can go on that list. One week before the pf started I was doing step aerobics and thought to myself, "What would happen if I couldn't work out anymore?" I remember it like it was yesterday. The reason I was worrying about that was because I had lost almost 50lb (having been heavy my whole life) and had lots of muscle definition. It took such effort to be at that place. I was worried about what would happen if I gained weight. Also, I was stressing about how I looked since my husband was coming home. I was worried that maybe I might have gained a few pounds since he had seen me last. Literally one week later the pf started in my right foot and then not kidding the very next week it started in my left. I see how ridiculously TMS that sounds, but for whatever reason, my brain won't let me accept it.
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Mary: Part of my problem is that my brain believes that I did do something to bring it on. I wasn't just sitting around. I was over exercising to deal with the anxiety of my emotional eating (which was due to various stressors: deployed husband (who was going to re-deploy not long after being back), taking care of my young son, running a support group for the spouses, finally being at a weight/fitness level that I'd always wanted to be at). What doesn't help matters is that years before that a therpaist diagnosed me as exercise bulimic -- using exercise to purge the food versus the conventional way. I'd hurt my wrists back in college due to this. Now I wonder if it was TMS.
Anway, I wish the pf had started with my just sitting around. It would be easier to believe it's a manifestation that way. Instead, all I keep thinking about is the 2 hours of step aerobics I'd do in a day followed by days on end of other high impact types of activities. If this winds up being TMS, then boy is my brain tricky and really powerful. I'm going to keep at it though.
--Jennifer :) |
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Andrew2000
40 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2008 : 19:33:02
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Jennifer - awhile back I posted about PF ... for me it lasted nearly a year but when all was said and done (in retrospect) I know it was TMS from start to finish ... I had orthodics, shots in the foot, changed shoes and sneakers, and anything/everything else you can think of to try to beat the pain that started in one foot (and then the other) which I convinced myself was from over-exercising ... it was all emotional stress. I never went into therapy but did a lot of reading about Sarno and others who conquered their pain through acceptance of a mind-body connection ... my advice for whatever it's worth is, if you can -- 'switch the channel' -- don't be obsessed with the pain or how or why it's there -- live your life, "move forward" -- and then watch how quickly the pain will go away. Once I decided to do that, my PF vanished
... I run, walk, do the stairmaster, anything I want in the gym now without thinking about my feet anymore. I threw out the orthodics and the special sneakers I bought ... The mind is a very powerful thing :) |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 08/13/2008 : 01:21:00
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quote:
I was over exercising to deal with the anxiety of my emotional eating (which was due to various stressors: deployed husband (who was going to re-deploy not long after being back), taking care of my young son, running a support group for the spouses, finally being at a weight/fitness level that I'd always wanted to be at). What doesn't help matters is that years before that a therpaist diagnosed me as exercise bulimic -- using exercise to purge the food versus the conventional way. I'd hurt my wrists back in college due to this. Now I wonder if it was TMS.
Um...you were overexercising because you had a ton of stressors. Guess what else happens when you have a ton of stressors? TMS.
Look at what you just wrote. At the time your pain started you were under a lot of stress. That is a red flag for TMS. The fact that you have had, in the past, different unhealthy ways of coping with stress is also a red flag. It is very common to have a variety of unhealthy ways of coping. John Bradshaw's work goes into this a bit more, understanding that many surface dysfunctions have a common underlying emotional origin.
You are also still buying into the idea that "high impact" activities can "hurt" you. This is physical thinking. The Sarno thinking that replaces this is that our bodies are strong and can handle day after day of challenging physical activity. They can and will adapt and cope with it just fine. Doctors trying to find a way to account for chronic pain are happy to blame exercise (or computer use or whatever the person has been doing), but most of them don't know about TMS so their attempt to find causes is doomed to failure and results in a lot of confusion for people.
It might not be a great idea for you to exercise so obsessively for practical and psychological reasons, but it's unlikely that it was bad for you physically. Even if you had been truly injured, injuries heal, they don't stick around. TMS is what sticks around.
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What were you expecting? |
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Scottydog
United Kingdom
330 Posts |
Posted - 08/13/2008 : 01:43:19
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When plantar fasciitis started appearing on this board a few years ago I wondered who had dreamt it up. I work as a radiographer in the UK and had never heard of it - you would expect one of the first lines of investigation for foot problems to be an Xray but it doesn't appear on request forms so we don't seem to have it here (though I am not working at present and it may have crept over from the US while I've been absent!). |
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Baseball65
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - 08/13/2008 : 06:03:32
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I was at work listening to a group of 'Steel Magnolias' comparing notes on their troubles and ailments.
They all had bone spurs and PF. They were all aged 40-55 and every single one of them is a 'good catholic' mom/wife/parent who volunteers for the diocese...and has had all sorts of surgeries, treatments,remedies,placebos
It was weird being a fly on the wall... every single one of them has a low physical stress/ high moral imperative type of existence. They have maids to do their laundry and cook, Nanny's to watch their kids and trust funds to pay for their kids colleges. They are ex-trophy wives out to pasture. Only the very wealthy have enough 'free' time to volunteer for the church.
It's odd that the people with the least physically demanding lives and jobs seem to get the most dreadful diagnoses. One more proof of the very psychological and social nature of TMS.
When I first heard of PF, it was because one of my favorite ball players , Tim Salmon, had it...he was allegedly in pain almost always. He had to have all sorts of treatment and missed a lot of playing time.
Being a typical fan, I learned he had several kids,was married to the same woman for all of them (and still married) he was very 'moral' (Unusual for a baseball player) and an all around 'good guy'.During one of his extended absences from Pro ball, my wife saw him speaking to a group of kids at church...on superbowl Sunday!!
When Jim Edmonds, a known partier and carouser was dismissed from the organization , he made a snipe about not being the 'perfect angel' like some other famous outfielder on the team. Jim Edmonds is still playing pro ball...Salmon hung it up a few years back after a long injury riddled career.
it's so obvious when your an outsider |
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penguins
39 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2008 : 05:21:31
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Thanks again Everyone. Wow I just had a few extrememly painful days in my lower back. I had the same pain a few days before I had to travel for work. At the time I knew it must have been TMS and didn't worry about it. Sure enough it went away. Well, it returned this week and this time it was much more debilitating. I was hobbling around Target yesterday. So I thought about it and recognized it's related to my job. I've been feeling angry for a long time now about it (too much to go into here). Yesterday afternoon I decided to challenge it and did 30 minutes of kickboxing followed by some weights. It hurt, but this morning I can bend over no problem, put a sock on, etc. Amazing.
Baseball's quote: "it's so obvious when your an outsider" hits home because from all your posts you guys are seeing clearly that my pf is TMS. It's helpful and encouraging for me to read them. I feel like I'm getting closer to acceptance. It's strange but I feel like I'm at war right now with my mind. It's trying so hard to keep the distraction going. As I get closer to kicking this thing, my brain throws more at me. The lower back pain this week is such a perfect example. Some may disagree with the "war" mentality, but it's truly how I feel. I'm angry at my brain. So freaking angry actually. I'm sick and tired of feeling like I live in a prison of pain. I'm soldiering on...
Thanks again!
--Jennifer :) |
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winnieboo
USA
269 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2008 : 11:53:46
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I am somewhat new to this forum and I started when I had just come out of a year of painful neck and arm pain. I had pretty good relief for this past three weeks but now I've switched back to major reflux and headaches--I had forgotten about those symptoms. Lived with them for years. Just took tablets and got on with my life... I didn't learn about TMS until I was months into the neck pain. It is a kind of war with your mind. It took me so long to accept the TMS diagnosis. I would read the books and talk to my husband about things and tell my shrink I believed, but I still doubted...maybe I have something else, maybe it is my discs, maybe I should get some more tests. But the pain would sometimes just vanish some days for 10 hours or a weekend, whatever. So I kept going. Often reluctantly.
I mean, you do hear everyone else talking about their surgeries and their prescriptions and their physical therapy and it's tempting to just go there. Like, I'll take a quick fix for my stuff, too! Can't I?? And then I silently sit there and scold myself in a way... "No, no, you're psychosomatic, remember?.." That's when I'm not sitting there silently thinking that I should give everyone I know who's aching a copy of Sarno's book. My therapist then reminds me "everyone's not you." Thanks for that.
I am still struggling with my overactive mind, but it is worth the work. At least for the time being, one layer of pain has diminished almost completely, thanks to psychotherapy and books (self-help and spiritual I guess you'd call the genre). Always, however, I get frustrated because it's hard for me to keep things simple. You know, I lose one set of symptoms, so why not just go on gleefully with life? Yay! Achievement! Relief! But no, my brain seems to hold me back, as if to say, hey, not so fast, you're not done yet...here's a headache and a case of heartburn--remember those, old friend? Sarno's "symptom imperative," you know, you've gotta have that ache or pain, or pf or depression or whatever.
I said somewhere else that I'm liking Pema Chodron lately...very helpful for remembering to be compassionate with yourself when you're doing any kind of transformative psychological work. I'm having a little trouble with the "be your own best friend" concept. Not to mention the need for a quieter mind. Maybe those are some things at the bottom of this. |
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wrldtrv
666 Posts |
Posted - 08/21/2008 : 21:58:10
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This is an interesting topic. I haven't been on here for quite a while, but this caught my eye because I have been bothered off/on for the past couple of months with PF. I had it much worse about 3 1/2 yrs ago and it dragged on for several months.
As a side note, I happened to peruse a website on this topic (against my better judjment), which said, as I already knew, that PF tends to be much worse out of bed in the AM, which is not at all true for me. It feels fine out of bed and then may flare up later in the day.
A much more interesting thing the site said was that heel spurs appear in 70% of people with PF, but only 50% of people with heel spurs have pain! That's kind of like the fact that many or most people with herniated discs have no pain or even know about their damaged discs. Of course, the website ignored this interesting point and went on to provide the standard medical rx for PF. |
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penguins
39 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2008 : 06:35:45
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This statement is interesting:
"heel spurs appear in 70% of people with PF, but only 50% of people with heel spurs have pain! That's kind of like the fact that many or most people with herniated discs have no pain or even know about their damaged discs."
When I was dealing with my neck/back pain, I went for an MRI. The pain at the time was on the right side. The MRI showed a herniated disc (as well as degenerative disc disease) on the LEFT side. What happened then? Naturally the pain moved to the "injured" side. I probably had that "herniation" for years and never knew it. I've beat the pain from that issue, thanks to Sarno and TMS.
I'm hoping my pf is the same type of thing. The two MRI's I had on the right foot showed no tearing of the fascia, but did show a heel spur. I have read before that tons of people have them and don't even know it. My mother-in-law had one removed and it didn't help at all. I am so sure all her various ailments are TMS related. But I digress...
I'm starting to feel that I'm closer to accepting the pf as TMS. This thread in particular has been very helpful. ChrisSC's post with the 10 point list he made for me was eye opening. Even though I knew all 10 points to be true, to see them layed out like that gave me a new perspective. I printed it out and have it by my computer so that it can be a daily reminder.
I decided to stop wearing my orthotics. I can't find the original inserts for my sneakers so instead I'm wearing my Nike Frees around and while exercising. That's as close to going barefoot as I can that I know of. My knees are hurting a lot (story of my life for as long as I can remember--TMS equivalent? Probably) and my feet hurt. I'm going to keep wearing them though. It seems that a number of people who have kicked this thing did the same with tossing their orthotics. We'll see what happens.
This forum is so very helpful and I am extremely grateful to all who share their thoughts! Have a great day!
--Jennifer :)
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Plantar Fasciatis - "en vogue"
