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marytabby
USA
545 Posts |
 Posted - 08/04/2008 : 16:57:32
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| I saw a show on VH1 Classic about the band Motley Crue doing a reunion, and the guitarist, Mick Mars looked about 80 years old. He walked completely stiff and weighed all of about 90 lbs. I couldn't believe my eyes. As I watched in horror at how ghastly he looked, the viewer learns that he has been suffering from Ankylosing Spondylitis and has had SEVERAL surgeries for this including spinal fusion. First thing I think to myself when I hear all the talk of spinal fusions is "TMS". This condition is described as a form of "degenerative arthritis". This man walks like a 100 year old man on a bad day. Now I pick up Blender magazine today, a music rag, and he says in an interview "If I could go places I would, but I'm stuck. This stuff (AS) won't allow me to move my head so I can't drive. This AS crap has shrunk me down. I used to be 5'9", now I'm 5'"3." TMS or no? When I hear "spondylitis" I think back to my own diagnosis with this and always shrugged it off as TMS once I learned about TMS concepts. Or maybe not, maybe it is something akin to rheumatoid arthritis. What say you all? |
Edited by - marytabby on 08/04/2008 16:59:56 |
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mk6283
USA
272 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2008 : 19:17:09
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Both AS and RA are NOT TMS. That is not to say that emotions do not alter their course. They most certainly do. However, TMS is by definition a noninflammatory process that causes pain. AS and RA are inflammatory processes. That says nothing about whether or not they have psychosomatic features. TMS and psychosomatic are not synonymous. I think the easiest way to think of it is that TMS (and its equivalents) are "purely" psychosomatic, whereas many (if not most) other illnesses have a psychosomatic component (e.g., RA and AS). This distinction is important because it influences the approach to treatment. It is good medicine to treat TMS (and its equivalents) from a purely psychological/educational standpoint. That is not the case with RA, AS, etc. Medications (etc.) may very well be required in such conditions. It would be bad medicine to treat them from a purely psychological/educational standpoint. Hope this helps.
Best,
MK |
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Scottydog
United Kingdom
330 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2008 : 00:14:58
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quote:
Both AS and RA are NOT TMS. That is not to say that emotions do not alter their course. They most certainly do.
What a sensible comment.
When I read Mary's post I thought 'Oh,no - another ding-dong battle about whether it / isn't TMS'.
I agree wholeheartedly with your views. MK.
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n/a
48 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2008 : 19:35:07
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| But isn't there a whole debate as to what processes are caused by inflammation in the first place? E.g. IC has been said to be caused by an "inflamed" bladder, or there are all sorts of discussions about digestive disorders and colon inflammation. I guess what I am asking is this: how would one know whether one has the TMS inflammatory-type response that is not actually structural as opposed to something else? If there is physical evidence of inflammation, it can't be TMS? As someone with IBS and IC symptoms, how am I supposed to know which it is? Thanks for clearing up my confusion! |
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drziggles
USA
292 Posts |
Posted - 08/06/2008 : 08:27:30
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Not TMS. Problems like interstitial cystitis (hell, even "tension myositis syndrome", which is part of why Sarno wants to ditch the term) imply inflammation, but don't really necessarily have that as part of it.
AS is a pretty terrible type of inflammatory arthritis, and is a whole other issue... |
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mk6283
USA
272 Posts |
Posted - 08/06/2008 : 12:01:49
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I agree. If a colonscopy or cystoscopy shows signs of inflammation, then it is very unlikely that TMS is the cause. IBS and IC, however, are frequently diagnosed clinically without any studies and some physicians may even imply that inflammation is involved when it really isn't. IBS and IC, however, are TMS equivalents. The correct diagnosis is the key here.
Best,
MK |
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mizlorinj
USA
490 Posts |
Posted - 08/06/2008 : 12:51:00
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A young woman had spondy. . . at Dr. Sarno's forum last year. She spoke happily about how she is now pain-free.
I think the fact that the Motley Crue guy has had multiple surgeries and is still not healed says something, and have to wonder about a mind/body disorder in there somewhere.
Inflammation can certainly have an emotional cause.
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Edited by - mizlorinj on 08/06/2008 12:58:17 |
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drziggles
USA
292 Posts |
Posted - 08/06/2008 : 15:37:37
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What I would argue in the case you mention is that the patient did not actually have anklyosing spondylitis, but may have been misdiagnosed. Now, I haven't personally examined Mick Mars (and probably would not want to... ;) but the man looks like hell, and apparently has lost about 6 inches of height in the last several years by his report. That ain't TMS.
With true inflammatory problems like rheumatoid arthritis, studies have shown improvement with journaling, etc. (and, sure, I have heard of cases of people with lupus or other inflammatory problems who completely resolved after a divorce, or the resolution of another type of stressful issue), but I would differentiate that from TMS, where the primary issue is the emotional stress. |
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n/a
48 Posts |
Posted - 08/06/2008 : 19:50:10
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I have no particular reason to believe that I do have inflammation (never had a colonoscopy or cysto as there didn't seem to be much of a point - I pretty much always knew I didn't have cancer or whatever). And I don't think I am going to run out and get either of these now.
I have every reason to believe that my symptoms are full-blown TMS, especially based on my history. I had very severe migraines for a year and a half 4-5 days a week and then they went away (acupuncture helped, but I now believe that a lot of that may have been placebo). I've also had tendinitis, Raynaud's, back & shoulder problems, etc. I suffer from some anxiety (would love to see a TMS-specialized therapist, but the only one I found in Chicago has not returned any of my calls or my email). I am a perfectionist, worrier, and partial goodist. I just read the Sarno book and I very much identify with what he's saying.
I always thought I knew what my anger was, but maybe there is also repressed anger (or fear, or who knows what else). I've lived a very high-powered life professionally, and I think all the stress became too much. Like I've said before, I am 99% convinced of this TMS thing, with the remaining uncertainty being no more than the uncertainty I would harbor about _any_ diagnosis, psychological or physical. |
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mala
Hong Kong
774 Posts |
Posted - 08/06/2008 : 19:53:47
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In HBP Sarno says that spondylitis is TMS but AS is different. Norman Cousins had it and cured himself with medication, high doses of vitamin c and lots of laughter. He would lie in bed and watch comedies.
Good Luck & Good Health
Mala |
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Mick Mars - Ankylosing Spondylitis
