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Dor
67 Posts |
 Posted - 06/26/2008 : 04:47:53
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Has anyone experienced ear ringing as part of TMS? I know that Dr. Sarno mentions it in his books, but there is not much discussion about it. I believe that part of mine is due to a great deal of dental work this past year, possibly resulting in some TMJ, and also some sinus issues. However, I do realize that it gets worse when under more stress. It gets very difficult to live with and very frustrating. I do try and ignore it and just get on with my days, but it is often hard to let it go. Just would like to hear from anyone who has experienced this and how you handled it.
Thanks, Dor |
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Fox
USA
496 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2008 : 06:00:10
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| Yes - my devastating tinnitus - that lasted about 3 years after attending a fireworks display - was totally cured by my using a combination of Sarno and TRT (Tinnitus Retraining Therapy). Don't ask me any questions. Just go to www.tinnitus.org, believe what they are saying, and get to work on your problem. If you need a professional, find a TRT ceritified audiologist - like they have at the Speech and Hearing Clinic at the University of North Carolina at Greensboro. But all the info needed is on the web site. |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2008 : 08:58:45
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quote:
a great deal of dental work this past year, possibly resulting in some TMJ, and also some sinus issues.
TMJ and sinus issues are often TMS as well, so perhaps the dental work was a trigger for various symptoms for you?
--
It's not 100% belief that's required, but 100% commitment. |
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Dor
67 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2008 : 10:44:24
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Fox, Thank you for steering me to that excellent website. I really appreciate it and am finding it not only informative, but of great help as well. As a long time believer in Dr. Weeks and Dr. Sarno it certainly makes a great deal of sense to me. I will continue to read and learn from the website and also practice what they advise. Again, thank you very much.
Dor |
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scottjmurray
266 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2008 : 13:20:13
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tinnitus? yeah. had that. it's gone. it's tms. thank you sarno. peace
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i'm not s#!t.
i'm champagne. |
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joli
USA
51 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2008 : 15:48:51
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yeah, it is TMS , my aunt had it for years.
namaste! |
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HellNY
130 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2008 : 22:41:51
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I believe Tinnitus Retraining Therapy is, in effect, the same thing as what Sarno does for pain. Just replacer "pain" for "tinnitus." TRT is not psychoanalytic, but what it shares with Sarno is the elimination of the emotional reaction to the stimulus (tone for tinnitus or pain for tms). When you no longer believe it is important, it begins to fade. I believe this is really how the Sarno approach works. |
Edited by - HellNY on 07/05/2008 22:42:32 |
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Dor
67 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2008 : 04:35:39
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I agree with the theory, but am having a hard time believing that the ringing is not coming from a physical cause - TMJ and sinus, both of which I have. I can sometimes follow the theory and other times when the ringing is worse I lose my resolve to believe. I wake up with it and it is worse whenever I lay down, leading me to believe it is sinus or TMJ related. There are times when I am not as aware of it like when I am outside, talking to people, or involved in something. And yes, I can hear some of you saying - see that is the point. Still it is hard when your face aches and the ringing won't stop. And, yes there has been lots of stress lately and I do believe I am carrying that in my facial muscles - typical TMS.
Anyway, any thoughts or tips or ideas would be most appreciated.
Dor |
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LuvtoSew
USA
327 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2008 : 06:58:13
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| Dor- I believe it is tmj related , I have it too and every time I get a bite adjustment it changes. Inflammation in and around the tm joint causes it and muscle spasms. Are you seeing anyone for tmj, your bite might be off due to the dental work. Not everything is TMS. |
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HellNY
130 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2008 : 15:04:36
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Dor -
Of course the tinnitus is coming from something physical. Its not an etheral impulse of no substance. There is actual neural activity in your auditory nerve or brian or both. Just like with pain there is a real pain impulse.
The point is that this activity is maintained and perpetuated by your higher cognitive and emotional activties...the emotional reaction and the focusing, which in turn makes the nerve impulse SENSITIZE rather than HABITUATE.
Look at the neuro studis on habituation and sensitization in the Aplysia and you can get a good sense of how it works,
There is no mind body dichotomy with this issue. |
Edited by - HellNY on 07/07/2008 15:05:22 |
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ecpasos
USA
21 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2008 : 16:06:07
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Thanks for the post. I'm going to check this out. I suffer from mild tinnitus. Having been cured 100% from my RSI via a diagnosis of TMS, I am very much inclined to think my tinnitus is curable. I've had it for years... so long that I don't even remember when it started.
Enrique |
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mk6283
USA
272 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2008 : 20:11:15
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I have yet to read this anywhere, but I have concluded that tinnitus can actually be part of the fight-or-flight response that accompanies the chronic sympathetic overload commonly seen in TMS patients. As a matter of fact the only time I ever experience tinnitus myself anymore is in the setting of acute fear.
Under conditions of chronic stress, tension, anxiety, or powerful repressed emotions, the body shifts into a state of increased epinephrine (adrenaline) secretion that increases heart rate, increases sweating, causes muscle tension/twitches, contributes to dysrhythmias/palpitations +/- MVP, causes a symmetric hyperreflexia (analogous to that seen in hyperthyroid states), increases startle response, blurs eyesight as the pupils dilate to increase far vision, alters blood flow such that blood is shunted away from the skin (pallor) and toward the muscles, etc. The list goes on and on and on. Psychophysiology is actually an increasingly important/growing field in medicine and gaining a better understanding of the changes that occur in our bodies in response to stress can provide enormous insight into the interpretation and diagnosis of mindbody disorders.
All of the reactions mentioned above have one thing in common: they help prepare us for battle. The fight-or-flight response, largely mediated by epinephrine, is an ancient evolutionary fixture that allows us to better survive in the face of danger. However, this system was intended to be of benefit only in the acute setting. Unfortunately, the pressures of the 21st century have led to the increased prevalence of chronic sympathetic overload states such as those that are seen in TMS and other psychosomatic conditions.
I believe tinnitus to be no different. As a matter of fact, almost all forms of tinnitus are accompanied by some degree of hyperacusis (increased sound perception) that I postulate to be the fight-or-flight adaptive component of the process, the so-called "advantage" that we gain. The likely mechanism is that of epinephrine-induced vasoconstriction of vessels supplying inner-ear structures, or if one prefers, the shunting of blood away from the auditory apparatus. Remember, this advantage was only intended for the acute setting, in which time the tinnitus may either never be perceived or quickly habituates. Unfortunately, in chronic stress states, we do eventually perceive the tinnitus and a vicious cycle of increased fear and worry comes into play, inhibiting our ability to quickly habituate the sound and, in most cases, actually amplifying its perception.
So how does this help? Essentially, I have tried to help convince you that tinnitus can definitely be a TMS equivalent (note: it isn't always, however). Therefore, if you are currently in pain or have struggled with other TMS/psychosomatic conditions in the past like TMJ syndrome, for example, try not to establish a cause-effect relationship between the two, but rather appreciate that BOTH are the effects of our body's natural adaptive processes. Therefore, tinnitus in the setting of TMS/chronic pain is almost always a TMS equivalent and BELIEVING this will quickly lead to its improvement, if not resolution (as it did in my case). Good luck.
Best,
MK |
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Dor
67 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2008 : 15:08:34
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MK, Thank you so much for your wonderful and caring post. I can not tell you how very much it is appreciated. I have known for a long time about the flight or fight response and have believed in it totally. Everything you said was so true, and though we might know it in our heads there are times that our hearts and souls must be reminded of it. The tinnitus came on during a time of great stress and unfortunately the stress has not abated a great deal. You have definitely reminded me of the importance of paying attention to that and what it can do to our bodies. What I find so amazing is that I, and probably many others, can give out the correct advice to others, believing in it totally, yet find it very difficult to apply it to ourselves!
Again, I thank you. Your words and wisdom make a great deal of sense and I know them to be true - in my life and in others. Now, I must remember to equate them to myself!!
If you wouldn't mind sharing, can you tell me please how your tinnitus came to be, how long it lasted, and what were the steps to eliminate it? Was simple recognition enough or did you apply other methods? If you choose not to share I will certainly understand and most appreciate the time it took and the caring to respond to me.
Wishing you well,
Dor |
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richedie
27 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2008 : 08:59:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Fox
Yes - my devastating tinnitus - that lasted about 3 years after attending a fireworks display - was totally cured by my using a combination of Sarno and TRT (Tinnitus Retraining Therapy). Don't ask me any questions. Just go to www.tinnitus.org, believe what they are saying, and get to work on your problem. If you need a professional, find a TRT ceritified audiologist - like they have at the Speech and Hearing Clinic at the University of North Carolina at Greensboro. But all the info needed is on the web site.
What is TRT?
My father has terrible tinnitus. He suffered a bad accident years ago that damaged his hearing. |
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mk6283
USA
272 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2008 : 20:12:39
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Dor, I'm happy that I was able to help. The successes seen in the TMS approach to treating tinnitus is very typical of some other psychosomatic problems and goes to the heart of the dilemma that they present. Even though the problem origins can often easily be resolved through journaling and introspection, the psychosomatic symptoms that they have given rise to may still persist! The new dysfunctional pattern may become functionally autonomous. That is to say, it endures and continues to express itself independently and indeed frequently in seeming defiance of the conscious will/ego. This likely occurs as a consequence of neuronal alterations that have occurred in the brain throughout the conditioning/sensitization process. The tinnitus has become hard-wired, so to speak.
What this means to say is that the success seen in treating tinnitus as a TMS equivalent is highly variable. If you have had the tinnitus for more than a year, I think it is unlikely that one would be able to eliminate the tinnitus entirely (for the reason mentioned above). This is not to say, however, that it is not possible. So what is one to do? Well, I think the TRT approach as outlined by Jastreboff is highly effective. One essentially tries to rewire the already hard-wired brain so that the tinnitus is no longer perceived despite being present.
Where does this fit in to the TMS schema? Well, (1) You still need to ACCEPT/BELIEVE that your tinnitus is a TMS equivalent. The extent of your recovery will be directly proportional to the level of your conviction in the process. I have tried to help you with this in my previous posting; (2) You must REPUDIATE the physical. This may require you seeing an ENT specialist or even getting an MRI if you are worried about a tumor. As long as you continue to have doubts your recovery will only be hindered; *(3) You need to RECONDITION your brain/mind. This is where the TRT approach fits in. Get a sound machine and use it as much and as often as you possibly can. Stop fearing the tinnitus and start doing everything you possibly can to ignore it! It cannot hurt you! (4) Finally, RESUME all normal activity and stop allowing the tinnitus, or whatever else the symptom might be, to control your life. It may take some time, but be patient and the results will follow. Best of luck and let me know if I can be of any more help. Take care.
Best,
MK
Note: before I was able to completely convince myself that my tinnitus was due to TMS, I tried using ginkgo biloba for a while and found it helpful. I now believe that this was only a placebo, but there is nothing wrong with that! Of course, you should always speak with your doctor before making any changes to your medication regimen. |
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j_vance
5 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2008 : 16:09:05
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MK gives some great advice here. I commend him on his eloquent and precise conveying of tinnitus info. Bravo!
I can't add anymore scientific or program suggestions, but I am a sound engineer/musician with tinnitus for many years, and also a class A TMS sufferer (mostly cured) and personality type.
I "got" tinnitus after a dental appointment at a very young age. I believe it may have started as a structural problem, but the absolutely crushing fear it instilled the night it first hit drove it into my mind. The typical fear stimulus > heightens anxiety therefore raising acute awareness > makes perceived sound louder >fear it more > repeat.
I have not done a serious TRT program, but I have dealt with it very very well. I convinced myself it isn't "real" or worth worrying about. I can literally step into the studio (near total silence i.e. worst place to be for ear-ringing) and can "TURN IT DOWN" in real time as I force a relaxation response, reminding myself (after much repetition over the years) that it's basically a phantom noise, and will not harm me.
At one point I obsessed so much about my tinnitus and "sensitive hearing" that I was getting super frequent hearing screenings (all of which I scored high on) and feared it would end my career. Sound familiar? Uh oh my hands hurt I can't play piano it will end my career.. pain gets worse... repeat cycle. Same EXACT **** happened with tinnitus. Also panic attacks and phobias for me. If all these issues don't fall into exactly the same physiological category, they, at least, can seemingly be treated with the same types of measures.
I found tinnitus is like anxiety and obsessive thought patterns, it's like quicksand. The more you struggle, fight, and focus on it, it becomes worse. Like a constrictor snake, it thrives on that attention, some kind of positive feedback loop in our mental circuitry, and will tighten and squeeze and squeeze back. It won't kill you tho :)
But yes, take advantage of the TRT programs, or at least always have a source of white or pink noise available. Again my career DEPENDS on my accurate hearing and I'm just fine man! I still "have tinnitus" but it poses zero problem. Seriously. I basically don't even perceive it. But you can be damn sure I sit in a room with a computer all day, so that sound, just something, some minor noise definitely helps at least in the beginning stages of desensitization. Putting yourself in a completely silent environment will only zap your confidence.
Hope this helps, if you're still reading this thread.
-j
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celloLWF
USA
49 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2008 : 21:59:24
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I have had ringing in my ears since I was 10, so that's 16 years. I too saw a warning in a dental office that "if you have ringing in your ears, tell your dentist." Scared the #*(@* out of me at the time. That's when it really got bad.
Also, after a scary near death experience at a concert, the ringing got bad and didn't go away for like a month. I thouht it was cause fo the sound, but I after several tests my hearing came back ABOVE AVERAGE. Made no sense, and I realized i had sensitized my self to sound and ringing. It was clearly anxiety.
Now adays, I have some ringing but I don't think about it and it doesn't get in my way. I had RSI for 2 years and it went with Sarno's theory, and i have been ever so curious how it relates to ringing. I had a couple times when I got relaxed enough that it stopped, but it always came back to some extent. I'm not really worried about it, though.
J_vance you post read like my life. I'm a musician aswell, and man I though ringing was some sort of a curse. when you said :
At one point I obsessed so much about my tinnitus and "sensitive hearing" that I was getting super frequent hearing screenings (all of which I scored high on) and feared it would end my career. Sound familiar? Uh oh my hands hurt I can't play piano it will end my career.. pain gets worse... repeat cycle. Same EXACT **** happened with tinnitus. Also panic attacks and phobias for me. If all these issues don't fall into exactly the same physiological category, they, at least, can seemingly be treated with the same types of measures.
I thought, I "write exactly the same thing." |
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Ear Ringing
