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Fox
USA
496 Posts |
 Posted - 06/23/2008 : 07:31:54
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| TMS has been good for me. After 20 years of severe leg pain, 4 back operations, and trying unsuccessfully every treatment modality related to ruptured discs, I got serious about Sarno and, starting about 2 years ago, my pain was reduced by 95% and has stayed that way, and my level of functioning improved dramatically and I was able to knock out most of my conditioning. I have been doing so well that it's hard to get motivated to read and post on this forum, so I haven't in about a year, I think. My only problem right now relates to running. I walk briskly, on hilly terrain, for 1 hour most every day with no problem. Yet, when I try run (I used to run 6 miles a day), I get the severe leg pain back - and it lasts for days. Every 6 months I try again but it hurts so much and for so long (not during the run but after) - the pain usually lasts 2 to 3 days - that I tell myself to just stick with walking and try again in another 6 months. This morning, I walked most of the way, but I did run about 1/4 mile in total - just trying to transition myself VERY slowly into running. Now it's 4 hours later and the pain is terrible. What do I do? Keep trying for a few more days or wait another 6 months to try again? (I know running is better than walking for me in terms of weight loss and relaxation.) |
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mjwebb05
24 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2008 : 09:35:32
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Fox,
I TOTALLY empathize with you!! I was just going to go onto this forum today to post a question about physical activity - the final step in fighting TMS to the ground. I have been pain free for three months after 4 years of back-hip pain thanks to Sarno, etc. and I have resumed all of the physical activities I normally used to do. The other day, I went to the YMCA and did an hour of an intense cardio workout session, and my pain returned! This was SO demoralizing, but I realized that this is not uncommon when you try to go back to your normal activities. However, I know what you are saying, as there are certain physical activities that I can do without any pain - biking, walking, swimming. For some reason, things like running or cardio workouts seem to have a hold on my subconscious fear of "hurting myself".
I am debating if I should just keep at those very things that hurt and fight through them, or just gradually introduce them into my routines....I hear ya!
Anyone have any advice or comments? |
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Fox
USA
496 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2008 : 11:09:36
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| We are definitely on the same wavelength here. I guess I could be happy walking daily for the rest of my life. It is nice to actually see the scenery rather than to just see a blur as you race past. And it is relaxating to walk for an hour and you get a bit of cardio benefit if you walk briskly enough and hit all the hills that you can. But a morning's one hour run gives you the strong 15-30 minute high/elation beyond the run, the deep relaxation all day, the highly efficient means of losing weight, and that extra bit of creativity and problem solving that they say only comes from a running-induced branching out of the neural pathways. But at what a cost! My leg is still killing me even though I am 95% sure that it is just conditioning (maybe that 5% of doubt is the problem here). Six months ago, when I last tried this, I kept running for 3 days straight, but I felt I just couldn't take the non-stop strong pain anymore - which ended about two days after I stopped running. If I was forced to try it for 2 weeks or so, of course, I could do it. But when the goal is just trying to improve your quality of life - not a basic need sort of thing - it's hard not to chicken out when that devastating pain hits. |
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Fox
USA
496 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2008 : 11:18:03
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| It guess that it will not surprise many of you to hear that my problems with running started about 7 years ago after I had a two level anterior spinal fusion, and as I was recuperating, my physical therapist advised me to walk - not run - for the rest of my life. Funny thing was that, after my earlier surgeries, athough they were laminectomies, and they didn't work either, I was able to run again with no extra pain, although other activities did provoke the killer leg pain. I am "convinced" that the PT saying that set up this conditioning. |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2008 : 11:56:39
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quote:
Every 6 months I try again but it hurts so much and for so long (not during the run but after) - the pain usually lasts 2 to 3 days - that I tell myself to just stick with walking and try again in another 6 months.
Sounds like you have settled into a new 'conditioned' pattern. You're going to have to do something to break out of it if you really want to get back to running. Waiting six months again will only reinforce the conditioning.
You are probably right that the PT set it up -- good for you to realize that.
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It's not 100% belief that's required, but 100% commitment. |
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Fox
USA
496 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2008 : 12:26:06
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| Maybe I'll just run two miles tonight so that I can face this demon head on! (But, man, do I dread keeping this pain going any longer than necessary!) |
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drziggles
USA
292 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2008 : 13:18:11
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| what is the leg pain like? |
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hottm8oh
USA
141 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2008 : 13:41:37
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Perfect timing. I was going to post something similar. I do Pilates three days a week, but I haven't done any kind of impact exercise in over 4 years because of my back pain. I took out a DVD that touted itself as a "walking" exercise, but I was surprised when I put in the workout and saw some pretty impactful exercises. I did the workout, thought I did the easier/gentler version. Later that night, I watched some of the women's gymnastics Olympic trials on TV. I was watching these girls do these routines where they crash into the ground, and I cringed every time. I had to turn off the TV because watching these girls hit the ground made my back hurt. That night right before bed, I had terrible back pain. I'd had a really good week, and then last night hit me. I was so pissed at myself.
I don't know how to break myself out of this impact conditioning. I'm fine with other forms of exercise, and I've mostly gotten out of my fear of sitting down, but I still have an intense fear of running, jumping, aerobics, etc. I'm thinking of starting slowly with lower impact exercises then moving my way up. Has anyone worked out of conditioning with baby steps, or is it better to just throw yourself into the pool, so to speak? |
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positivevibes
204 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2008 : 14:53:42
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It's funny that you talk about watching gymnasts, etc will make your back start hurting. I thought I was the only one crazy enough to have this weird result.
Sometimes if I'm watching gymnasts or other athletes on TV, or even people at the gym doing various things that "would probably make my back hurt" or "would be bad for my back," I can actually feel some phantom pain in my back.
How about this: A few weeks ago, my husband and I went to Costco. You know how heavy the shopping carts can get at that place. So my husband went with me to push the cart for me (he also wanted to get a few things). I did not push the cart at all. I didn't lift anything remotely heavy. Yet by the time we were done at Costco, my back felt achy. For absolutely NO reason, other than conditioning -- I have been conditioned to expect that pushing a heavy shopping cart will cause my back to hurt. And even though I wasn't pushing it, it started aching anyway!
How weird is that, eh?
Conditioning is a very strange (unfortunately) powerful thing.
Fox, I can relate to you on a lesser level. I'm scared to get back on the elliptical stepper. And I'm terrified to do any weight lifting, especially anything that involves my legs (because that's where it all began for me a year ago...on the leg press machine).
I know that it's partly conditioning. It's hard to remove all the doubt. Personally right now I'm faltering between Sarno and non-Sarno and I'm trying very hard to get back on the Sarno course and stay there. I've gotten a new MRI partly because I won't be able to remove all the doubt until a TMS doctor gives me his blessing (for me it will be Dr. Schechter because he's geographically the closest to me).
I'm sorry to hear that you have such terrible pain after running. If you can find the time to fight through the pain, perhaps you should try it. Why would running make you hurt if the other things don't? Try to reason it out with yourself and see if there's ANY logic behind the running/pain connection. What did your PT exactly say to you...what was the reason he told you not to run? Does it make sense or was he just making a passing comment?
My osteopath made a passing comment that he doubts I'd be playing tennis when I'm in my 60s or 70s. That made me SO angry! How dare he say something like that to me? Unless I'm in a wheelchair with serious health problems I totally intend to be able to play tennis as long as I want. I wish every doctor and health care professional would read Sarno and realize how much damage they inflict by making these stupid passing comments that seep into a vulnerable patient's subconscious and slowly chip away at their self-image.
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You are not your mind; you are not your thoughts. The incessant mental noise [of your thoughts] creates a false mind-made self that causes fear and suffering and prevents you from connecting with your true self and living in the Now. - Eckhart Tolle, The Power of Now |
Edited by - positivevibes on 06/23/2008 15:06:06 |
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hottm8oh
USA
141 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2008 : 15:29:00
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| positivevibes--incidentally, watching tennis does not make my back hurt. Tennis is the only sport I go out of my way to follow, so I watch it more than any other sport. (Wimbledon starts today!!) But watching running, gymnastics, or anything that involves pounding the feet into the ground makes me cringe. |
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Fox
USA
496 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2008 : 15:46:35
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| Dr. Ziggles - the pain is worst to the outside of the left ankle and runs across the outside top of the foot and the outside blade of the foot to the outside toes and sometimes into the ball of the foot. There is also pain, to a lesser extent in the left buttocks, and to an even lesser extent in the left side of my lower back. |
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Fox
USA
496 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2008 : 17:53:46
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| The TMS perfectionist in me is telling me that I must correct what I said about my surgeries. Actually, one laminectomy did help partially - my last surgery - but this was a special circumstance. The fusion of two of my discs apparently resulted in more pressure on the next higher disc, as I had been warned, and it extruded "massively" (per the CAT scan?) as I was told, resulting in a more intense and relentless pain than I had ever experienced, but this time in my upper leg. That surgery did remove that new horrifying pain, but did nothing for the old lower leg pain. But I never would have gotten into the upper leg pain situation if I hadn't undergone the fusion that I wish I had never begged for. Of course, I guess this last laminectomy could have resulted in a placebo effect, but in my gut, I think that is not the correct assumption regarding this particular, unique surgical situation. |
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Fox
USA
496 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2008 : 14:17:28
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| I can't believe my absurd brain!!! My leg/foot and also butt (at times) is still killing me since that little run earlier in the week. At least my frequent headaches and stomach upset have been gone all this time. Can you say symptom substitution? So far I have wimped out about running a second time, but I'm getting annoyed enough about this that I may throw my caution to the wind. I did throw a lot of hard punches in the air last night to get the anger out. Felt better emotionally afterwards but no difference in the fairly constant pain level...Maybe I'll hit my heavy bag hanging in my garage tonight and see if that helps. I haven't done that in a LONG time. |
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mjwebb05
24 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2008 : 14:57:44
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Just an encouragement....since I felt a pain relapse last Wednesday from an aerobics class, I have decided to 'tough it out' and exercise through it (after taking a few days off). I ran Sunday, Monday, and Tuesday, and today I went BACK to that class, and was fine!! I still feel some residual effects, but NOTHING like last week, and I am just ignoring it. Cool thing is through ignoring it, it seems to be dissapating. AND, it doesnt hurt at ALL when I jog, or lunge, or squat, do sit ups, planks, etc - ALL things I have done this week that a few months ago, I would have NEVER thought of doing - for fear it might hurt me even worse. I have also been journaling and employing Dr Brady's "mindfulness" techniques before journaling daily. And praying. All of which seems to be working for me.
Just thought you might like to have some encouraging news!! I say, go out there and punch on that punching bag tonight, and tomorrow, try a short jog - not too much, just ease yourself into it. That's what i am doinng, and it seems to be "desensitizing" my brain/subconscious from its conditioning of running/impact = BAD. |
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mjwebb05
24 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2008 : 14:59:24
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Just an encouragement....since I felt a pain relapse last Wednesday from an aerobics class, I have decided to 'tough it out' and exercise through it (after taking a few days off). I ran Sunday, Monday, and Tuesday, and today I went BACK to that class, and was fine!! I still feel some residual effects, but NOTHING like last week, and I am just ignoring it. Cool thing is through ignoring it, it seems to be dissapating. AND, it doesnt hurt at ALL when I jog, or lunge, or squat, do sit ups, planks, etc - ALL things I have done this week that a few months ago, I would have NEVER thought of doing - for fear it might hurt me even worse. I have also been journaling and employing Dr Brady's "mindfulness" techniques before journaling daily. And praying. All of which seems to be working for me.
Just thought you might like to have some encouraging news!! I say, go out there and punch on that punching bag tonight, and tomorrow, try a short jog - not too much, just ease yourself into it. That's what i am doinng, and it seems to be "desensitizing" my brain/subconscious from its conditioning of running/impact = BAD. |
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Fox
USA
496 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2008 : 15:33:54
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| MJWeb - thanks for the encouragement. |
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Fox
USA
496 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2008 : 04:33:51
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| Well, I just walked/ran a second time - a little further on the running component this time. Started off with leg/foot/butt pain when I woke up this morning - has been basically non stop since the first run a few days ago - so I said what the heck anyway. No extra pain during the run. As I was walking towards the house, I noticed pain in between the big toe and the toe next to it and the ball of the foot under this area and on top of this area. Dangit - this is an area related to a different nerve root than the pain I have been having over the last couple of days (my primary pain spot over the last 20 years). I guess that's a good sign. Maybe my brain is starting to give up on attacking the old nerve root area because it sees that I am persisting, with some good support from this forum, in my efforts to run despite the pain. It seems like my brain is now trying a lame and ludicrous effort to trigger pain in a new nerve root area, and WOW, as I type this that particular pain is no longer there. That's the power of insight learned from reading and listening to Sarno...Another source of support has been my brother. He is the ONLY one whom I have sold on Sarno (everyone else either thinks I'm a nut or a sadist when I start talking about Sarno and they realize I'm basically talking about hypochrondia in relation to their pain) and he has cured his back pain and his knee pain with Sarno, and I can tell, although he is supportive, that he is getting impatient with me on my lack of solid effort on the run thing (he is now running - and he had to start off running through intense knee pain - which is now totally gone). He wants me to play tennis with his son - I was a good tennis player - and I realize that I am also afraid to return to tennis, and I told him that, so he dropped a Sarno guilt trip on me - which I needed. (This whole silliness started with reaching "too far" - as if - while going for a forehand in tennis over 20 years ago.)...Dave and Dr. Ziggles - do you have any thoughts? You have always made such helpful comments to others on this forum. |
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Running
