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Tunza
New Zealand
198 Posts |
 Posted - 12/09/2004 : 13:20:29
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Has any one else experienced any nightmares when they start making progress with pain?
Last night I was jolted out of sleep by a really horrific dream. Like the worst kind of horror movie you can imagine. I do have an anxious personality so I strongly suspect this is TMS. It was so vivid and I had to read a book for an hour afterwards even though I was really tired. I just had to read to stop my brain from replaying the images over and over.
I cannot say what the dream was about as it was too awful (it's not a memory from my life though, luckily). One thing I can say is that at the end of the nightmare I was crawling out of a cave that had very slippery sides.
While I don't feel I should dwell too much on the dream (that would be like inviting the TMS to continue using nightmares as distraction - you see I'm onto you TMS gremlin) I do wonder if there was also a little symbolism there. It's like I was climbing desperately out of my subsconcious (cave) away from the evil that was hiding down there (my suppressed anger). The "evil" was so unspeakable that it seems bizarre that my subconscious could liken repressed anger to it but I guess that's how fearful you can be of rage?
Now here's the telling part: in the night I found myself saying to my partner that I would prefer pain to ever having a dream like that again (now that it's daylight that seems ludicrous!!!!!). I NEVER thought I would prefer physical pain over any kind of emotion. But there you go. I'm learning so much about myself.
Kat |
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moose1
162 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2004 : 14:05:56
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not nightmares but night-time panic attacks, which are awful because it's actually happening (not to discount your nightmares, which of course are horrible, too). these are all TMS equivilents, all part of the same lie that *is* TMS at work.
recently i had a stretch where i was having these panics everynight. then i read a book called "The Panic Attack Recovery Book," which describes something called "The Principal of Paradoxical Intention." what this means, essentially, is that when you deliberately "turn the tables" on anxiety/panic by inviting it to do it's worst, to egg it on, to provoke it to the point of absurdity, for some reason the autonomic nervous system very often responds by "disobeying" and doing nothing...kind of like a child. i tried it and i'll be damned if it didn't work! maybe this will work for nightmares, too?
good luck!
moose |
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JoeW
United Kingdom
61 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2004 : 20:01:07
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I've recently been to counselling/therapy, and noticed that after every session I had a very vivid dream. Not a nightmare, but certainly more vivid than my dreams usually are (I don't often remember them).
Rather than a TMS equivalent, I would see it as a sign that you are delving into your sub/unconcious, and that that is a good thing.
Hopefully you'll have some good dreams next. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2004 : 21:05:09
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moose1, thanks for the book reccommendation on panic attacks. I'll put it on my book list. I've had a couple in my life and mistaken them for heart-attacks. Nothing like the fear that you are dying to increase your heart-rate. I'll be interested in learning about them. Knowledge is TMS power!
On the subject of dreams, I feel they come from the same area of the brain that TMS pain does. In dreams I feel myself helpless to move and escape them. I think this is similar to TMS pain. TMS happens to us and we feel helpless to stop it. But by learning about how the process operates, we can bring it into the light of the conscious mind, out of the shadow world of the subconscious, involuntary brain.
I would think it's akin to Eastern spiritualists, who can control their breathing, through years of study. Like I said I don't know anything about dreams accept that I have had them. Has anyone on the board been able to control their dreams and do they think it is akin to TMS? |
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Baseball65
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2004 : 06:17:37
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In response to Tom and Tunza...
I have found that the Nightmares are actually beneficial,and I believe they are a positive result of doing "the work".
Remember,we are trying to retrain our mindbody to experience and/or become aware of subconscious fear and rage rather than put up this "shield" which is our symptom.
The most vulnerable we are to ....uh..Leaking? is when we are asleep and the conscious box lid isn't quite sealed as tight as it might be when we are awake.
This forum has been helpful to me,in spite of my symptoms being gone....like the throat thing...I was STILL falling for that..texasrunner might have saved me about 3 trips to the Md this winter!.....soo
I started practicing what I preach again to AVOID any new ploys.
We just went through a really expensive (emotionally and finacially) Move,and now my wife keeps chattering non stop..."Honey,I'm afraid about our finaces...Honey,I'm afraid about our finances"...in spite of the fact that we're both working and our rent/bills/expenses are way less than they were a year ago.
I had a dream/nightmare LAST night! In my dream my wife LEFT me because I wasn't MAN enough to support her.I actually woke up screaming for her not to leave.
I don't think this had caused a symptom yet,but I've been journaling and "gestalting" and bada bing bada boom....Now I've raised my awareness...everytime my wife complains about our finances,My subconscious is taking it as an insult.The little kid deep down has a fear that he can't support his family and will lose it.The little kid hears "You're not making enough money to make me feel OK"
so,the night mare was instructive
I don't think I need to make more money to avoid a symptom....just keep digging and let my brain know that I'm aware of it's fearful little operations.
Peace
Baseball65 |
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Logan
USA
203 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2004 : 08:58:25
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While I don't feel I should dwell too much on the dream (that would be like inviting the TMS to continue using nightmares as distraction - you see I'm onto you TMS gremlin) I do wonder if there was also a little symbolism there. It's like I was climbing desperately out of my subsconcious (cave) away from the evil that was hiding down there (my suppressed anger).
On the contrary, I think our dreams are asking us to pay attention to them. I think that the subconscious does "want" to be known, that we can know it to an extent.
I have had many nightmareas and vivid dreams since starting my TMS recovery. In one, I was walking across this prarie and came to a canyon, I looked down into the mouth of this deep, spiral shaped cave. On every level, on the ledges, grew these monstrous prehistoric looking plants that were kind of like those meat eating plants from Africa, the ones you sometimes see on nature shows. I was terrified of falling in but I did notice the plants had beautiful flowers like sunflowers.
I also had this terrible recurrring nightmare where I came across an abandoned acquarium and the sea animals, sharks and whales etc. were all dying in these filthy, murky pools and I felt so terrible because I couldn't help them. I know it doesn't sound that scary here but I would wake up horrified.
I don't have them too much anymore but I always try to remember my dreams and to write about them in my journal because I do feel they are like little telegrams from my subconscious. Often, I'll have some seemingly irrelevant dream, not even a nightmare, and then a few weeks later I'll have it again. By noting them, I can see the pattern and try to figure out what's bothering me. I do believe this has been instrumental in getting and staying pain free. |
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Tunza
New Zealand
198 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2004 : 13:03:21
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It's now a couple of days after my nasty nightmare and it's the first chance I've had to read the replies. Meanwhile I'd come to the same conclusion as you guys. Thanks for your responses - they have reinforced what I was thinking. It is like I've been given an insight into how much rage and fear there is down there in my subconscious. For me it is has given me even more confidence in the TMS theory (confidence that has already grown heaps lately).
I have started running again after a couple of years off (knee problem). I cannot believe how fearful I have been of starting again. Yet I now have enough belief to counter that fear. Also Monte's book has been brilliant in addition to all the other TMS books I own.
I was breaking into a run on some of my walks with the dog and not having too many problems. Then I went and spent $NZ200 on some running shoes and immediately got scared (pressure to be able to run on an ongoing basis now I'd spent a lot of our money on shoes. We're on a tight budget).
I went to the park yesterday with the specific goal of running (as opposed to just running on and off during a "walk"). So much fear that I almost shook. I put it off all day and finally went. The knee pain started within the first few strides. There were two competing thought streams in my head. One was saying "you can't do this, you'll make it worse....the shoes must be wrong for you...you're body is unbalanced....your left hip doesn't work" (told this at P.T.)....etc....etc The other was saying "There is nothing wrong with my body.....I am strong and healthy....i am feeling the pain of repressed emotions in my body...etc..etc"
The second voice got louder and more confident as I felt my left knee pain melt and then it moved from location to location, trying the right hip, the right ankle, the hamstring etc ...all the places that I have had past "running injuries".
Anyway, I was really thrilled to have run for 20 minutes at the end of it and felt like I'd given the TMS the "run around"!
Ohhhhh and I had to laugh in the last few days I have had odd patches of mild dizziness which I've never experienced before. I almost celebrated as it was yet more proof of TMS. I really have it on the move. Which means it's on the way out.
Kat |
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Michele
249 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2005 : 08:32:23
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I had my first nightmares last night. Good God, they were horrible. I had read from several people that in doing the work, sometimes there are nightmares, but it had never happened to me.
Yesterday I had some time to myself, no kids or husband, so I spent the time reading, journaling, and practicing some of John Lee's anger-ridding exercises. Beating my bed with a tennis racket sure worked up a sweat!! Then last night I had not 1, but 2 horrible nightmares. Being in a dark and scary place, gangsters, shooting, kidnapping, rape, you name it, I had it. My eyes were puffy this morning, but I don't remember crying. Bizarre. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2005 : 09:04:40
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Michele,
I'm not clear if these were your "first" nightmares in your life or the first while doing TMS work? From my understanding of dreams, we do so all the time but seldom remember them.
Good Luck |
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Michele
249 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2005 : 09:48:33
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quote:
Originally posted by tennis tom
Michele,
I'm not clear if these were your "first" nightmares in your life or the first while doing TMS work? From my understanding of dreams, we do so all the time but seldom remember them.
Good Luck
The first while doing TMS work!
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Laura
USA
655 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2005 : 11:13:30
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Last night I was having the strangest dreams. I have had several dreams over my lifetime that involved tigers. I would love to find a dream interpretation book and figure out what they signify. This dream I had early this morning prior to awaking was that I was in Africa in some rustic type of cabin and there was a lionness (female lion?) ready to rip me apart. The lion turned into a tiger and then it ran away and left me alone. While I was having this dream, I was aware that it was a dream and was hoping I would wake up because it was getting too scary. There were people in my dream that I haven't seen or thought of for over 20 years. It was definitely one of the weirdest dreams I have ever had.
This morning, when I woke up, I walked downstairs and started some laundry. As I bent down to pick up the clothes, I experienced a whirling, spinning sensation that was unlike any of the dizziness I have had before. It scared me. Seconds later, it was gone.
As a kid I had nightmares that involved falling, particularly falling from an escalator in a store. I have a lot of nightmares about war and bombs and explosives, and have since I was a kid. Once as a child, I dreamt about a nuclear bomb hitting the place where I lived. I didn't know it was called a nuclear bomb and in my dream I remember calling it "the acid bomb." I must have been about 12 or 13 when I had this dream and I have never forgotten it (I'm 45 now). I have a lot of dreams about plane crashes, particularily planes coming down and hitting the ground and me running to save my life.
I think I'll go get a book on dream interpretation and start using it. This latest dream was just so weird it makes me want to explore this further.
I have a book I picked up in the store called Think Yourself Well. It's just a small paperback but it contains quite a bit of useful information. There are quotations from Dr. Bernie Siegel and various other doctors who believe that dreaming offers insight to healing. They recommend using a dream journal to keep a record of your dreams. One doctor, Dr. Carl Simonton, wrote a book called Getting Well Again. Dr. Simonton writes "The means by which the unconscious communicates with the conscious self is through feelings, dreams, and intuition. Unfortunately, our culture seems to undervalue these messages. We tend to ignore the feelings, dreams and intuition from our internal self which are attempting to provide us with resources to meet the demands of the external world."
Dr. Simonton goes on to say, "It has been hypothesized by several researchers that cancer patients may have been cut off from the resources of their unconscious processes. In our experience, many recovered patients have come to see their illness as, in part, a message to value and pay more attention to their unconscious self rather than to the demands of others. In addition, many patients have described having had specific insights, feelings, dreams or images which provided valuable guidance in their efforts to regain their health."
Another doctor, Dr. Jane Garfield (a dream expert) wrote a book called Creative Dreaming and Healing Power of Dreams. Dr. Garfield says "I believe that by practicing within a dream - by changing the dream - you not only deal with the difficult situation in the dream, but you also carry over to the waking state an attitude that allows you to cope more effectively The more aware you become in your dream state while you're in it, the more you can use dreams to your benefit."
Food for thought. Sweet dreams, everyone!
Laura
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Nightmares as TMS equivalent?
