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Baseball65
USA
734 Posts |
 Posted - 04/23/2008 : 04:57:14
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Rage. I am filled with it.
I am getting a "talking to" at work today. The majority of it is about my tattoos. I have a lot of them...
I am a painter and I work in facility maintenance for schools and churches. It is presumed by most that I am a moron.I am usually ignored and I like it that way. They talk in front of me at leisure, the way one might talk in front of a child, or someone who speaks a foreign language...But, every now and then, some good Christian Person gets REALLY bored and becomes concerned about the way I look and lodges a complaint. Apparently a few are out there right now.
They want me wearing Long Sleeve shirts on 80 degree plus days, lest anybody find that the nice christian world is askew. Keep in mind.,..I am a Manual Laborer.
I knew when I left LA and moved to the Bible Belt that this kind of crap might happen. I just figured after being around some of these places for YEARS now, developing a good reputation for my work, participating in the community and working with kids that some of their prejudices might have worn out. Apparently Not. They are terrified that I might have some sort of negative influence on their kids (The fact that my own sons are both well known Scholar/Athletes evades them..or angers them)
I know I'm going to 'lose' the argument with my Boss so I'm not even going to try to win. I assured the company when I got my review and raise last year that I would quit wearing cut-offs, wear the company logo-ed shirts and make sure and be clean shaven and well groomed to offset the fact that I look a bit MansonFamily-ish.I had been slipping a bit, especially when it was hot. I have kept my word for 8 months..
I came home yesterday in quite a state.Really upset. I made a COLOSSAL error. The Mother of my children asked if I needed to 'talk about it' and I accepted (Trap...don't do it..it's a trap!). Before I had even explained as much to her as you've now read, she started quoting "The Secret" at me, along with some nice Gary Zukav-isms, and a little Louise Hay just for flavor. I asked her why she was giving me advice, when all I wanted to do was vent?
And this is where I'm tying this in with that thread on Abuse. I knew I was angry. I knew I just needed to blow it off...talk to a friend. Rant for a bit. But NO ONE likes anger. Not even people who see that you're angry and seem to be conciliatory. They want to talk you OUT of your anger.All anger can be reasoned away, like factoring out an equation in Algebra....and anybody who shows ANY signs of anger is ABUSIVE because they have CHOSEN to be angry.
Just to up the 'Rage' ante... the people who keep telling me (with those condescending goo-goo eyes and a sigh) that I have CHOSEN to be angry , are the same people who have CHOSEN to take Prozac. They hate anger. Now...my verbal tirades which are 'abuse' and I am to be scorned and punished for my anger. This of course has nothing to do with the fact that the said-Prozacked person's Father was PHYSICALLY violent and a Molester.
I wonder why we have a nation of ineffectual effeminate malingerers? I coach boys in sports and I am constantly amazed at the laundry list of things they are told NOT to do. Than we wonder where their motivation, confidence and aggression has gone when there is some serious matter to be taken care of, like a war or making sure a bridge doesn't collapse.
Oh yeah... that's right. Their backs hurt. They have bad knees, bum elbow, ADD, and their depressed.
got it.
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Scottydog
United Kingdom
330 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2008 : 05:39:46
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BB65,
Why don't you have the title of some evangelical weekly sticking out your back pocket, wear a cross, hum 'Onward Christian Soldiers' as you work.
Beat them at their own game.
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2008 : 08:36:52
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Good for you for saying that you just wanted to vent, not get advice. I think this is a common issue -- people we talk to when we're upset think we want advice or comfort, and all we want is someone to listen for a while until we wind up, and then we'll calm down and figure out what to do ourselves. Communicating about what we want in that dimension can be really helpful.
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It's not 100% belief that's required, but 100% commitment. |
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alexis
USA
596 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2008 : 08:48:58
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quote:
Originally posted by armchairlinguist
Good for you for saying that you just wanted to vent, not get advice. I think this is a common issue -- people we talk to when we're upset think we want advice or comfort, and all we want is someone to listen for a while until we wind up, and then we'll calm down and figure out what to do ourselves. Communicating about what we want in that dimension can be really helpful.
I agree, but you have to say that up front. If I'm really upset I either start with the very first sentence as "I'm not looking for advice, just to vent." Or I say it early on. You can't leave that statement until you are already annoyed by the advice. It's an intro or a cut-off at the first corner. Otherwise the listener doesn't know what's wanted.
But if they don't take your queue, then that's another story. But I think it has to be up front since the nature for most people when confronted by a problem is to give advice -- this is well studied in both men and women. So some of the responsibility has to be on the speaker to make clear up front what is wanted. |
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la_kevin
USA
351 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2008 : 10:51:29
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I don't envy you. I don't deal well with Fundies.
--------------------------
"Over thinking...over analyzing...separates the body from the mind." Maynard from the band TOOL |
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swmr1
USA
118 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2008 : 11:26:33
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I also live in the bible belt. It's ironic because I was a born again chrisitian when I lived in California and now that I'm in the religious section of the country I'm agnostic. I constantly find that I have to just remain quiet when people say things in public and they just assume everyone is a christian so surely everyone agrees. I'm pretty sure that (though I've coached kids for over 20 years and am a very good coach) if I were to announce publicly that I don't believe in Jesus I'd be vilified and seen as evil! These same people that claim their religious views are stifled and discriminated against wouldn't be able to handle my lack of belief!
Don't know what to say about your particular situation, Baseball, but even if you were a fundy in CA you could have tattoos, long hair, ride Harleys and all that stuff with no problem. Pretty funny... |
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Scottydog
United Kingdom
330 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2008 : 19:55:13
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The anger thing is interesting (when you aren't suffering from it that is).
My brother used to offload stuff to my mother, his wife (now ex), other family members - not exactly anger but what all was going wrong in his life (due usually to someone else's unreasonableness) - we would lie awake worrying all night, come up with a few suggestions - then, hey ho, next day he was happy, whistling his way off to work, the problem offloaded and him, seemingly fine. Whilst we were chewing it over, wondering how things can be solved. He still does this to my mother but I have learned to switch off. But I'm not sure whether he gets the relief he wants by venting to me or not now I don't respond much to it.
My husband also vents anger when he is driving - to me only mind you, not when he is with his friends. He sounds very vindictive and, in my view, it spoils our drive. When I complain he 'is only letting off steam' - so I seem the unreasonable one - other drivers are such prats after all.
But who is in the wrong - him for venting at me and in my eyes spoiling a nice trip - or me for not being able to shrug it off and also complaining when he is 'only letting of steam'?
I realised recently that my husband is often angry, and it is always someone else's doing. When I am angry I think that I am usually contributing to the problem ( or I did, am changing with my TMS progress). I have more TMS probs than he.
Do we need to vent anger to someone else to have it ?validated - does beating a mattress with a tennis raquet give the same relief? Any ideas? |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2008 : 20:59:48
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Scotty,
I had a similar issue with my now ex-boyfriend. It wasn't the reason we broke up but it was something that affected my feelings about our relationship and so may have contributed. When he was in a bad mood because of being aggravated by something he would vent about anything and everything with an extremely strong negative vibe, even almost violent negativity. I found it very hard to tolerate, maybe more so since it seemed to be hard for him to realize how negative it sounded.
It's hard because it's legitimate for people to vent, but in excess it really can spoil a situation and give what could otherwise be a pleasant time a very negative feel. Maybe there's some way you can compromise on it.
Other people on the road always seem like prats, but at a certain point it's easier to just expect the bad behavior so that every violation of the law or common courtesy doesn't get to you so much. (Plus, I have found that if we examine our own road behavior we usually find we are not as good as we think we are -- really, a bit more like everyone else.)
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It's not 100% belief that's required, but 100% commitment. |
Edited by - armchairlinguist on 04/23/2008 21:01:17 |
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scottjmurray
266 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2008 : 21:14:25
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i hate it when people give me advice when i want to ****ing vent
do you need another person to vent? is there some sort of chemistry that happens when you talk about it to another person where it's more effective than if you just flip the f--k out in some soundproofed room?
im going to have a room in my house one day that is sound-proof and padded just so i can flip out whenever i feel like it.
Author of tms-recovery.com
A collection of articles on emotions, lifestyle changes, and TMS theory. |
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Baseball65
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2008 : 05:23:48
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Yeah..
The only subtle difference here is, I was MINDINg My OWN Bizness , looking perhaps a Bit diStreSsed. Said Person asked if there was something I needed to get off of my mind, or something to that effect.
I had already learned (or NOt) from previous encounters that ALL anger is bad . I should have lied and kept it to myself.
In the world of "all anger is bad" , I was just in as much trouble for beating a mattress with a bat. It's still anger. I did that two weeks ago and the ensuing silent treatment I received (just based on audio coming out of my room) was the same as if I had let loose a tirade.
I am not speaking in relative terms. ALL anger is Bad....because we can all reason it away and we all "choose what we believe"
Oh yeah. I was right. It was about Tattoos . That and the sports talk radio I listen to at work, quietly. Took away one comfort and one pleasure. Keep pressing and see how long he can take it. |
Edited by - Baseball65 on 04/24/2008 05:29:09 |
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campbell28
80 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2008 : 07:16:38
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i've just been reading facing the fire by john lee, about dealing with anger. he seems to make a distinction between 'appropriate' anger, when you react proportionally to something in the moment, and the kind of anger that has a whole pool of past rage behind it and spills out disproportionately even when you stub a toe or something (I do find stubbing my toe particularly enraging and soul-destroying as it feels like the whole universe is against you, even the furniture).
He also says the book is aimed at ' neurotics' (ie, repressed goodist types who are disconnected from their emotions and need to learn thats its OK to be angry) and NOT what he terms ' rage-aholics' - people who get TOO overwhelmed by their anger.
I was talking to a friend last night who has this problem - I suppress my emotions; she gets taken over by them. She is trying to learn how to feel angry without totally exploding every time. I stood in a field in the middle of nowwhere shouting "BALLS" at the weekend and was still paranoid someone might hear me and think I was odd. Some horses looked a bit startled but that was about it.
So I guess there are lots of different kinds of anger, and different kinds of angry people. My current boss flips out at the flick of a switch and takes it out on whoever the nearest person is. That is NOT easy behaviour to live with. I don't know if it means she's always incredibly healthy and is going to live till she's 100. FUnnily enough, I think her anger is actually prompted by fear underneath - she's scared of everything, or of losing control, so she goes haywire really easily. SHe is definitely a karma monster. And in the end she's probably not helping herself because everyone is scared of her and it can't be a very nice way to walk through the world.
I thought I had a point to make but now I find this is really just a collection of random statements. Never mind. |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2008 : 09:02:59
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I think there's a substantial difference between occasional and chronic negativity. Also between expressing emotions, feeling them fully, and letting them go, and sitting and brooding on them. For TMSers learning to express our anger should hopefully push us away from brooding and negativity into full expression and then letting go, and make us less negative overall and less inclined to break out into anger over small things (like roadway interactions).
My experience of my 'road rage' type feelings (whether it's the road or not -- minor annoying interactions with people) is that they are definitely displaced anger about 99% of the time, the rare 1% being when someone REALLY does something dangerous that does or nearly does result in harm to me.
Getting down into dealing with the well of anger (by myself or with someone else) helps diminsh the reservoir and reduces my tendency to chronic feelings of anger, negativity, depression, etc. And yes, chronic negativity is depressing and to some extent we do have a choice of how we approach situations. But that doesn't mean it's a good idea to be totally positive about situations that are genuinely troubling and perhaps even unjust. It just means we have to accept that once we see they are chronic problems we have to do some kind of internal or external action to deal with them -- speak up and try to correct it, leave a job, move, whatever, because otherwise the negativity will wear both us and other people out.
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It's not 100% belief that's required, but 100% commitment. |
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drziggles
USA
292 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2008 : 12:00:30
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| Didn't you and your wife read "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus"? I thought men are the ones who try to fix everyone's problems, and women are supposed to listen and reassure... Tell your wife to read the memo! ;) |
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Kristin
98 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2008 : 12:09:58
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| I would like to comment on the effects of venting in my personal life. When my husband vents, it feels like the weight shifts from him to me. He says, "Oh, I feel better now." and I feel worse. Trying to talk about it more or find a solution is my way of trying to share the burden instead of just having the energy of the negativity transfer to me. I know of course, I could be tougher and not let it get to me, but I've read that we are wired for empathy, men and women in their own ways. This is a two way street because there are times when I am feeling sad, unhappy, or frustrated and I don't want a solution or Knight in Shining armour to rescue me, I just want someone to know that I'm hurting. I really like the idea of giving some sort of heads up to the person, "Hey, I just really need to be listened to right now" Then maybe there could be some sort of agreement on what we could do together that might deal with the discomfort of sharing difficult feelings. Maybe it has nothing to do with a solution. Interesting ideas here. I can see putting this into immediate practical use by sharing it with my husband. |
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Baseball65
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2008 : 04:58:30
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Hmmm... seems to be a distinct division on this, but I won't point out the obvious.
This was one of those unique situations where there WAS nothing to be discussed. Our clients don't like my Tattoo's. Period. I Lose.
Just to ratchet up the anger level, my Boss prefaced the whole sit down with how happy everyone has been with my work, How I've been on time, on budget,etc,etc,etc. (remember..I'm a TMS-er)
This is one of those angers when there is NO 'solution'. I either want to work there or don't...period. And I do. My Boss and our company are really cool. How many of you can honestly say you would enjoy spending your FREE time with your Boss??
So that sets up an even greater conflict. During the discussion, he pointed out that it was only myself who was being hurt by other people's prejudices (which made me even angrier..)
So, YES I did Read 'Men are from Mars"...She bought it, I read it.... but this was truly a unique situation....there was no problem to work out...Only anger that is now buried down there in my unconscious (and conscious) with all the other stuff |
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Scottydog
United Kingdom
330 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2008 : 06:02:50
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quote:
Hmmm... seems to be a distinct division on this, but I won't point out the obvious.
Oh,
really, - I hadn't noticed - tee hee.
To be honest I suspected that my husband, venting his anger at other drivers when we were in the car together, was really taking the opportunity to get at me (because he knew it wound me up) for some other unspoken resentment (??sex - let's face it that's the most likely thing) which I was too cowardly to investigate.
Fortunately we are overseas right now and have a driver so the issue doesn't come up.
Alexis said quote:
If I'm really upset I either start with the very first sentence as "I'm not looking for advice, just to vent."
and this seems to be the answer.
I started reading Fred Amir's book (which is on line and seems to be free!) and from about page219 onwards he has alot of advice about conversations with spouse and getting things straightened out. He obviously feels this is an important topic.
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Littlebird
USA
391 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2008 : 14:05:16
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Interesting topic you started here, BB.
I don't know how typical the behavior of the men in my family is, but in my FOO, in my first marriage, and in my current family, all the men have felt a need for some physical outlet when they were really angry, and it usually took the form of punching something--not someone, except in very rare cases. And I don't mean they do this over the everyday frustrations, it's the big injustices that make them want that physical release.
So I've learned to patch holes in the wall pretty well and gotten used to having boards knocked out of the fence, among other things. But my youngest boy went out and bought a punching bag during a particularly difficult time in his life (the full-size "heavy" bag and he bought a stand, since we had no good place to hang a bag) and it turned out to be a good solution. It's a lot more acceptable to others to see a man hitting a punching bag with all he's got than to see him attacking the furniture, walls and fences. And the bag is a lot less likely to break your knuckles. |
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Wavy Soul
USA
779 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2008 : 08:15:45
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Talking of boxing, I have been doing it with my trainer at the gym. Every Wednesday instead of weights we go in the little classroom and he holds the pads up while I punch and kick him, according to a prescribed form. It's GREAT! I'm a girl btw. I can know that every week there will be an outlet for my rage. Fortunately I don't have to hold the pads for him!
And I just wanted to say how much I love this thread, and especially this line, which makes my forum forays so much more than worthwhile:
quote:
I stood in a field in the middle of nowwhere shouting "BALLS" at the weekend and was still paranoid someone might hear me and think I was odd. Some horses looked a bit startled but that was about it.
love and thanks to all for your wisdom and for what you're all going through in the best way you can
xx
Love is the answer, whatever the question |
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seimon_23
United Kingdom
17 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2008 : 08:53:49
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| Wow man! I thought I was the only person who felt this way when you're angry! I sympathise totally. Sometimes, you don't want to be 'talked down' from your anger. Sometimes, you don't want to have that anger defused. It isn't always healthy. I think it's better to have an explosion of manageable proportions every now and than rather than suppress it and risk something like nuclear bomb going off later. Except, that's not what we do in todays 'I'm ok, you're ok' society is it? No, in the interests of being nice and getting along with everyone 100% of the time we bury it and develope back ache or ulcers or RSI. I work in a small office environment and my employers have on a couple of occaisions expressed concern that I'm sometimes moody and uncommunicative. In fact, my next pay review is dependent on me being happier and more approachable! I've tried explaining to them that, although I'm not always a ray of sunshine, it's nothing personal and if they just stop prodding me for a little while, it will pass of it's own accord. |
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Wavy Soul
USA
779 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2008 : 10:18:04
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Sorry this posted twice - don't get how to delete
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Edited by - Wavy Soul on 04/26/2008 12:32:41 |
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Wavy Soul
USA
779 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2008 : 12:31:16
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Talking of boxing, I have been doing it with my trainer at the gym. Every Wednesday instead of weights we go in the little classroom and he holds the pads up while I punch and kick him, according to a prescribed form. It's GREAT! I'm a girl btw. I can know that every week there will be an outlet for my rage. Fortunately I don't have to hold the pads for him!
And I just wanted to say how much I love this thread, and especially this line, which makes my forum forays so much more than worthwhile:
quote:
I stood in a field in the middle of nowwhere shouting "BALLS" at the weekend and was still paranoid someone might hear me and think I was odd. Some horses looked a bit startled but that was about it.
love and thanks to all for your wisdom and for what you're all going through in the best way you can
xx
Love is the answer, whatever the question |
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Rage...abuse??....Rage.
