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sborthwick
87 Posts |
 Posted - 03/24/2008 : 08:24:12
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Ok - folks,
I have been pulled between 2 theories over the last few weeks.
1. That Sarno is right and the distraction theory is spot on - the symptoms switch around - caused by repressed rage and sadness
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2. This is just anxiety - the pain etc and other symptoms are just from anxiety - get rid of the anxiety and the physical things stop.
Until... a couple of things happened over the weekend. A very good friend of mine suffers from anxiety. He has been taking a good anti-anxiety medication and has absolutely no anxiety - he feels fabulous. His wife is thrilled and he has been feeling like a different man. Well....suddenly, he has come down with crippling back pain. He has been told it is a disc problem. Hmm...it seems to me that this could be the symptom imperative at work. He is a perfectionist and a "do gooder". He is highly intelligent and analytical.
I also had an interesting experience. I was very annoyed by somethign my boyfriend did on Saturday night. I let it fester and decided to talk about it on Sunday morning. I was in a lot of resentment. Before I spoke to him, I got really really mad - actually let myself get really angry. As soon as I did this, the anxiety I had been experiencing lifted from me. I felt a wierd calm as soon as I let out the anger. I have to say that this really confirms that the symptoms are from pent up, repressed emotions.
I went to see Sarno's psychologist on Friday. It was very enlightening. She told me that I need to learn to feel anger and emotions. I have got really good at repressing things - learnt from a young age. I also notice that I get extremely angry from very little things...almost as if the anger is buried in there and needs to come out.
Over all, I am going to continue seeing Sarno's therapist. I am also goign to a panel discussion in New York tomorrow. It consists of women who have gone through his program and psychology and have no symptoms now. |
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mk6283
USA
272 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2008 : 09:03:19
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Cool. Please let us know how the panel discussion goes as these patients (those that recovered ONLY AFTER Sarno directed psychotherapy) are precisely the batch of patients that our argument (orchestrated by HillBilly) centered around a few weeks ago. Thanks.
Best,
MK |
Edited by - mk6283 on 03/24/2008 09:04:44 |
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sborthwick
87 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2008 : 09:16:07
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| Exactly MK - that is my motivation for going. I think it will be very interesting. |
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mizlorinj
USA
490 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2008 : 09:23:06
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Wow, that's great you can see how things happening correlate with pain and anger, etc. I agree we need to FEEL the feelings, and it is relieving!
I do believe women are taught from a young age that anger is inappropriate. Well that went out the window for me last year. I get as mad as I need to when I need to! (w/o it turning to hostility)
Anxiety can be intense feelings of any of the big 4 emotions--anger, sadness, fear, guilt. I would say in those I know it's fear mostly.
I went to the forum last year and it was interesting to hear people's experiences. I think it was 2 men and 2 women on the panel; can't say I remember their all having had therapy though. I believe at least one person did the work on their own (w/o therapist) as I did. One was a doctor too, which was cool.
There was a pretty large audience (~100?) of all ages the time I went.
-Lori |
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gezondheid
50 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2008 : 13:20:16
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Is there actually someone who considers the possibility that they are both valid. The one causes the other. Permanent anxiety causes heavy inner stress which causes inner rage which causes a defense mechanism. When( after pain) in fear the anxiety comes around the corner. Maybe you solved the emotional stuff but the fear takes over (second fear). With that a constant focussing on fear causes heavy anxiety and repression and eventually again a defense response in the form of pain. And of course other line ups are possible.
Just a possibility. Our brains can go on if one of the 2 theories are right. That's just what it wants. The(anxiety/fear) pattern wants to stay alive and the emotion(distraction) may not come out. And we keep on feeding them both.
Anyone who sees it this way????????????
Greetings Gezondheid
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windy
USA
84 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2008 : 15:40:51
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| I did not use a Sarno-prescribed psychotherapist to get over my most dramatic (FMS-type) bout of TMS that lasted from 1998-2002. However, every few years I deal with a lesser recurrence, usually in the form of foot/ankle pain. I realize that life continues to deliver stress, etc., but i feel as if I did not learn a permanent lesson in TMS banishment from my earlier successful experience. |
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Hillbilly
USA
385 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2008 : 11:35:01
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Hi Suz,
Hope you get better from whatever treatment you choose.
The observations you made about your friend are precisely how anxiety works. Claire Weekes spoke of the symptom imperative in these terms: "he slays one dragon only to have another pop up in its place." This is the symptom imperative to a non-Freudian who used common sense to explain to people how to get better. My own experience was that my symptoms greatly diminished and I was able to function much more normally on an SSRI, but I couldn't take the side effects and flushed them. My pain never went away at all, though. Not even for an afternoon.
So most people with anxiety problems experience this sort of thing regularly. Some who have suffered for decades worry about their stomach, then their back, headaches, then dizziness, and on and on. Meds aren't real treatment. They are used to mask symptoms. It is temporary relief if nothng is done to change habits of thought with regard to body noise.
Lastly, the part of distraction theory that I take issue with is that it is the purpose of the syndrome rather than a willful act on the part of the patient to body check all over for something that feels wrong, so they find it. This habit is a distraction from life and a direct reaction to fearful rumination for certain, but the outright statement that it is the purpose rather than a result is on tenuous terms at best. This habit is the easiest one to stop and can in itself lead to a cure with acceptance that the body noise is not dangerous.
Let us know how you do.
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sborthwick
87 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2008 : 10:12:31
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interesting Hillbilly - thanks v. much
I am doing the Lucinda Bassett program for anxiety - I think that combined with some therapy from Sarno's psychologist could do the trick. I don't have any kind of back pain at all now - if it twinges, I get rid of it immediately. I just have the anxiety symptoms. I would LOVE not to see the therapist - but in my 2 sessions, she was very helpful to show me why I react to different things in the way I do. It is really expensive so I don't love doing it. |
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sborthwick
87 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2008 : 10:16:40
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Question Hillbilly......
I am taking a very low dose SSRI for my anxiety - hate the side affects of weight gain etc. I assume you are on nothing now? Do you not have any anxiety at all? Did you do this all through CBT techniques? Sorry if you have answered this before
Thanks |
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Hillbilly
USA
385 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2008 : 10:35:17
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Suz,
No, I'm not on meds and fixed the anxiety using a combined technique approach which I wrote about extensively. It's all about thought control with regard to symptoms. In that regard, it is just like the 12 daily reminders of HBP, but so much more in detail. I also struggled with self-consciousness and social awkwardness since I was a small child. I didn't do anything about it because I was too busy living a lie that all was well and I was strong. Then I got two kids and a crappy job and two car payments and a mortgage and it all went south quick.
I don't see how treating the conditions in two separate ways is going to harm you, but it might lead to some confusion. What are your anxiety symptoms? Have you inquired as to what they are? Do you know they aren't dangerous and that you can ignore them with practice, which will make them go away? Sound familiar? You bet.
I also think you can safely ignore the cancer remark from TDM above. That is just adding more fear to a bubbling cauldron. Whatever you decide, do it courageously and with commitment and sustained effort. You'll get there. |
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sborthwick
87 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2008 : 10:52:20
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Thanks so much Hillbilly!
My anxiety syptoms are mild acne/hives and mainly just continual worrying - worst case scenario stuff....sort of a continual uncomfortable pessimism. It takes me out of the moment all the time and makes me feel a little depressed.
I don't have the back pain any more or GI issues.
I have weight gain and constipation (sorry!) from the medication - so want to stop it.
Does the CTS approach teach you to feel - regardless of the discomfort. I shy away from uncomfortable feelings all the time - hate them so I repress them instead. I grew up learnign that you never get angry or you will be punished for it. |
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Hillbilly
USA
385 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2008 : 12:26:41
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| It teaches what to do when you are angry or fearful and how much of that is irrational and overblown in our cases, whether outwardly expressed or inwardly "worked up" into a rage or panic. That is the dangerous part. It isn't the outer environment that we fear so much as what goes on within us. It isn't denying your feelings, but it isn't coddling them either. It is more thought and belief-based. I suspect the Bassett program is based on this approach, but I don't know for sure. |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2008 : 18:00:09
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I don't love therapy either. It is generally uncomfortable and difficult (and, as you mentioned, expensive) but there is a discovery and relief associated with the learning it brings that make it worthwhile, in my experience. Even when I had to buy myself ice cream every week to get myself to go back!
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It's not 100% belief that's required, but 100% commitment. |
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I think Sarno is probably right
